MPurcell

Depends on how low. 7.0 is the minimum number usually given for pH range. Low pH is certainly an issue with equipment, so you wouldn't want to let it stay there any length of time. As far as swim safety, I would think you could swim safely at below 7.0 pH, maybe say 6.8. I don't know how low you would have to go to make the water uncomfortable or unsafe.

There is really no viable test for total dissolved solids. There are test strips, but I don't have any information on their accuracy. In general, test strips have proven to be pretty inaccurate. And you are not the only one who has reported extreme differences in TDS test results at the pool store, or in some cases multiple pool stores, with the same sample water. The only way to get an accurate reading of total dissolved solids is in the lab. You would use a measured amount of water, evaporate all of the water, and then weigh the residue with an accurate lab scale. You really don't need to test for dissolved solids though. If you plan to change the water out every two or three months, which you probably should do with a public spa, then dissolved solids will never get too high, unless you are putting stuff in the water that you don't need.

You'll be so happy when your test kit arrives. Pool store testing is notoriously inaccurate. The results you give above, in my opinion, can only be explained by testing inconsistency, since nothing substantial changed in the actual water. This is why you must test yourself with a good reliable test kit in order to get good results in the long run. I don't think you can believe any of the results you have gotten from them, including the dissolved solids results.

Remember, Leslies and all pool stores make money by selling you things. If you manage your water by the BBB method or TFP method, they don't make any money. Besides many employees being put on the floor with little to no training, the ones who are knowledgeable and experienced also are subject to their company and industry culture. The advice you will get at the pool store and at their web sites is certainly questionable, and many times outright wrong, misleading, and unhelpful. Here's an example. Leslie's Alkalinity Up 5 lb tub, $14.99, Arm and Hammer baking soda 4 lb box, $2.24 at Walmart. So, expect to hear the pool store employee tell you that you can't use baking soda in your pool or tub. The ingredient in each product is... 100% sodium bicarbonate.

Bromine method Chlorine method I use bromine with the three step method. This consists of 1) add sodium bromide to build up a bromide bank of at least 50 ppm 2) add bleach (or another oxidizer, but bleach is preferred) to convert the sodium bromide into active bromine. (This is the same as booster.) 3) use a floater with bromine tabs to gradually add more bromine to the water to keep the level up over time while the tub is not in use. Needed for bromine three step method: Sodium Bromide - added once at each fill Bromine tabs - BCDMH (bromochloro 5,5 dimethylhydantoin) Bleach You need to balance the water chemistry. For this you may need one or more of baking soda, washing soda or borax to increase pH and TA, muriatic acid to decrease pH and TA, calcium chloride to increase calcium hardness (if your fill water is low). Some people also add borates to the water to help buffer the pH. The best product for this is granular boric acid which you can get online at Duda Diesel, and other places. With Chlorine, the pH tends to rise, so muriatic acid is frequently needed. However, with bromine, BCDMH tabs are rather acidic, and with a floater in the tub all the time, the pH tends to go down, so muriatic acid may not be needed at all. I never need muriatic acid or any form of pH down in my tub. From the pool store or online you need to get sodium bromide, bromine tabs, muriatic acid and calcium chloride. Everything else can be obtained at the grocery store. For managing pH and TA: Baking soda raises total alkalinity a lot and pH a little Washing soda raises pH a lot and TA a little. Borax raises pH and not TA. I pretty much only use baking soda to raise pH because I need to keep the TA up as well.

Low calcium hardness would not cause a pump to fail. Other water chemistry factors such as pH out of range could affect the equipment, but I'd say that after one month, the pump failing would 99.9% be due to equipment failure. (Not saying your pump has failed. Just giving general information.) Dichlor and trichlor both contain CYA, so you do not use them once the CYA level is where you want it. Use bleach! Whoever advised you not to use bleach because of the size of the tub is just plain wrong. Bleach and liquid chlorine are the exact same thing, basically sodium hypochlorite. Do NOT use splashless bleach or scented bleach because they have additives that you do not want to put into your spa. Bleach is typically 8.25% and liquid chlorine from a pool store is typically 12%, but otherwise they are functionally the same. You really need to learn to use the pool calculator tool. It's a fantastic tool because otherwise you would be doing math on a sheet of paper yourself. The pool calculator will tell you exactly how much to add.

See the Chlorine/CYA Chart. A CYA level of at least 30 is recommended, and usually nothing over 40 for a hot tub. As per the chart, CYA of 20 is too low. At CYA of 30, minimum chlorine is 2 ppm and target is 4-6 ppm. For shock, you will need 12 ppm at 30 ppm CYA. The minimum is just that. It means never ever let the chlorine fall below 2 ppm. According to the pool calculator, in 1600 gallons of water, adding 5 oz of dichlor will raise FC by 13 ppm, raise CYA by 12 ppm, lower pH by 0.49 and raise salt by 11 ppm.

See if the pool calculator will help you with quantities. Put your number of gallons in at the top row, then use the section at the bottom for "Effects of adding chemicals". For example with 1600 gallons adding 25 ounces of 8.25% bleach will raise free chlorine by 10 ppm and salt by 17 ppm. Algicide is a (sometimes somewhat effective) preventative, and not a treatment. The only treatment for an algae bloom is chlorine. You must raise the water to shock level and maintain that level until the algae is all gone. For this, you need a good test kit which includes the FAS-DPD drop titration test for free chlorine. Shock level for chlorine if there is *no* CYA in the water is 10 ppm. If there is CYA, then shock level is higher.

The best test kit for bromine is the Taylor K-2106. Your cost will probably be somewhere between $50 and $75, but it will allow you to maintain your water chemistry over an extended period of time. I use bromine, and am at five months on the current fill. I will probably change water in about a month. You will likely need to purchase that kit online as you won't find it locally very often. If you are in the US, the best price I have found online is Amato Industries. You should educate yourself with information on this forum and the Trouble Free Pool Forum so that you understand how to balance and sanitize the water with bromine if that is your sanitizer of choice. Look at this, and read the other sticky posts on that forum and on the Hot Tub Water Chemistry section of this forum. Oh, and if your foaming problem is from soaps and oils, you can remove them from the water by taking the sanitizer up to shock level and if necessary, holding it there till the water is clear. Shock level for bromine is 22.5 ppm so you will definitely need the K-2106 to be able to test for levels that high. The sanitizer will oxidize all of the various compounds that are causing the foaming and slickness, etc. You can use the tub up to 10 ppm, or even a little higher if you're not too sensitive.

I have no experience or expertise with the products you are using. I will express my personal opinion. Assuming the accuracy of your information, your landlord is exposing others to possible harm, and himself to potential litigation. I am not a lawyer so I can't say what your liability might be, but as an employee you would surely have some level of responsibility as well. My recommendation is to decide on a method that is known to work and demand your employer allow you to implement it, or if not to resign. Whichever method you decide on needs to include the correct use of one of the three approved sanitizers, chlorine, bromine or biguanide. In your research, you will find that the information on this forum and on the Trouble Free Pool forum is much more useful than other sources. You can get a lot of misleading and just plain wrong information from employees of various pool stores and corresponding online sources.

Look for online suppliers of boric acid. A quick search indicates that you will find some available in England. Try to get the granulated rather than the powder, as it dissolves much easier. Boric acid is relatively pH neutral (I know, it is counter intuitive) so adding 50 ppm won't mess with your chemistry balance. In the US I buy from Duda Diesel and there are a couple of other online suppliers, but I don't know about international shipping. There is plenty of information on the forums about increasing borates. As far as muriatic acid, a quick search indicates that pool stores in England do carry muriatic acid. In the US, you can also get it at many of the big box stores such as Walmart and Lowes in the pool supplies section. Muriatic acid is also used to clean brick and concrete, so suppliers for those trades may be a possibility as well. Be aware that it comes in various concentration levels.

Actually the stabilized chlorine granules you mentioned, also commonly referred to as "dichlor", contain both chlorine and cyanuric acid (CYA). The formula for cyanuric acid is 1,3,5-triazine-2,4,6-triol, and can also be obtained separately under the name stabilizer. In the dichlor/bleach method you would add dichlor only until you reach a certain CYA level, then switch over to bleach (liquid chlorine - sodium hypochlorite). The Taylor K-2006 is excellent and one of the most recommended test kits. It has everything you need. I know the test kits are a bit pricey, but if you follow the methods taught on the two forums you should save multiples of that amount of money in the long run. Regards, Michael

You will need to obtain a proper test kit. Strips are not reliable enough. In England it's a bit harder to find the correct kit. See this thread, and there are probably others on here. If you plan to use chlorine as a sanitizer, you should follow the Dichlor/bleach method in a nutshell posted as a sticky in this forum. I suggest you avoid pool stores and pool store advice as much as possible. You may need to purchase some supplies there, but don't let them sell you supplies. For this purpose, you need to educate yourself as thoroughly as possible. There is lots of good information on this forum, and also on Trouble Free Pool forum. A few pieces of advice about chemicals. You can get much of what you need at the grocery store. For instance, pH up (sodium carbonate) is washing soda, and total alkalinity up (sodium bicarbonate) is baking soda. You can also use borax to increase pH without increasing TA. For chlorine, you can use household bleach, just don't use the scented or splashless variety as they have additives which you don't want. Items you will need to purchase at the pool store or online include muriatic acid, calcium carbonate to increase hardness, and dichlor to increase the cyanuric acid up to 30 or 40 ppm in the first week or two after a fresh fill. You should not use non-chlorine oxidizer as it's chemical formula can be hard on the equipment as it builds up. Use bleach or liquid chlorine instead. You should not use pH down or dry acid (sodium hydrogen sulfate) as the sulfates are hard on the equipment. Use muriatic acid instead. You don't need to shock the tub weekly. With correct maintenance you will keep the sanitizer at the correct level at all times. You will add chlorine after soaking as an oxidizer based on the number of bather hours and temperature.

Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) raises both TA and pH with an emphasis on alkalinity. According to the pool calculator, it raises TA significantly and pH only slightly. Washing soda (sodium carbonate) raises pH and TA with an emphasis on pH. Borax (sodium tetraborate) raises pH without changing TA. I have a bromine spa, which will react a little differently than a chlorine spa. I recently added baking soda to raise TA and pH. Pool calculator said I should have raised TA by 90 ppm and pH by 0.2, but the actual figures were TA 80-160 and pH 7.2 to 7.8, so 80 ppm and 0.6. In a chlorine tub you only need TA to be around 50-80. You can add borates to the water to help buffer the pH. You can use borax and muriatic acid or you can purchase boric acid which is relatively pH neutral. You probably won't find boric acid at a pool store and will probably need to purchase it online. I bought from Duda Deisel online. Be sure to get the granulated form not the powdered form, as it dissolves much better.

The most likely cause is soap residue from bathing suits. Anything you add to the water by bathing suits, suntan lotions, cosmetics, deodorant, bug sprays, and so forth can contribute. If you get a little foaming when the air jets run, but it dissipates in about a minute or two when the jets are turned off, then that would be normal for many tubs. If the foaming or sudsing is persistant, then that is not normal. For the later case, one person suggested using a net to skim off the suds, and that that would reduce the foaming going forward. If you have a serious foaming problem, you can eliminate most of the offending substances by raising the sanitizer to shock level and holding it there for a few hours. If the level of sanitizer is dropping quickly, then you need to keep the shock going for a little longer until all the foreign substances are neutralized. For this operation you need a good test kit which includes the FAS-DPD chlorine or bromine test. To prevent foaming, bathe before entering the tub, use no swimwear or use dedicated swimwear that does not get run through the washing machine, and avoid carrying anything else into the pool on your body. One suggestion I have heard for hot tub swimwear is to have dedicated suits that are not used for anything else. After you soak, remove the suits and hang to dry, but do not wash them in the machine. Since you are only using them for the tub, the sanitizer will keep them clean, especially if you shower first. Then when they do get washed in the machine periodically, maybe every month or two, run them through multiple rinse and spin cycles to remove the soap as much as possible.

One suggestion I have heard for hot tub swimwear is to have dedicated suits that are not used for anything else. After you soak, remove the suits and hang to dry, but do not wash them in the machine. Since you are only using them for the tub, the sanitizer will keep them clean, especially if you shower first. Then when they do get washed in the machine periodically, maybe every month or two, run them through multiple rinse and spin cycles to remove the soap as much as possible.

Dazzle brand by Backyard Industries is a Canadian company. Are you in Canada? If so, finding a proper test kit will be a little harder, or at least more expensive. I am unable to find ingredient lists for your products. The company does not make their material safety data sheets available publicly as far as I can tell. TA+ will most likely be sodium bicarbonate (common baking soda). pH+ will probably be sodium carbonate (common washing soda). TH+ will probably be calcium chloride. I can't guess what is in the bromine granules, except that it is intended to increase active bromine, so it probably contains some form of bromine/chlorine, maybe granulated BCDMH. The one named amaze is probably potassium peroxymonosulfate or MPS which is the ingredient for non-chlorine oxidizer. You didn't show the container for the bromine tabs you use in the floater. I would guess you are using 1" BCDMH tabs. If I am right, then everything you are using is fine, if a little expensive. You can get baking soda and washing soda at the grocery store for a fraction of the price. And common household bleach works as well as MPS as an oxidizer, actually better, and much more economical. Have you used any other products in the water than these? In a bromine tub it is recommended to use sodium bromide to establish a bromide bank when you first fill the tub. The usual amount added is about 50 ppm. Sodium bromide is not a sanitizer, however. It is the common salt of bromine, just like sodium chloride (table salt) is the common salt of chlorine. When you add an oxidizer, the sodium bromide is converted into active bromine (hypobromous acid). When the active bromine neutralizes bather waste, ammonia and other organic materials in the water, it returns to sodium bromide, and can be activated again and again with an oxidizer. If you started with bromine granules, you added a small amount of bromine which will convert to sodium bromide. As you go forward with the use of the tub, adding more bromine granules and using bromine tabs, gradually bit by bit the bromide bank will be increased up to the level it should be. I would venture a guess that your foaming problem is due to the amount of bather waste, along with possibly other contaminants from the large number of bather hours of usage, and that you are not adding enough oxidizer to fully neutralize the bather waste. A low bromide bank could contribute as well, but that would be mostly in the first month or so after a new fill if you don't use sodium bromide. From your first post, is sounds like you have something on the order of 4 person hours per day of soaking time, which is quite a bit more than usual. At 104 deg F the adult body produces about 6 pints of perspiration per hour, less at lower temperatures, but you get the idea. Also soap from swimming suits, cosmetics, suntan lotions, urine, etc can all contribute to the demand for sanitizer. If it were my tub, I would give it a good thorough shock treatment, taking the bromine up above 22.5 ppm, and then once it comes down, try to keep the bromine level in the range of at least 6-10 ppm for a week or two afterwards, and see if that removes everything that is causing the problem. You can use the tub at 10 ppm or below. I've actually used my tub above 10 ppm, up to 15-18 ppm, without any negative effects, although my wife who is very sensitive tends to notice that the bromine is high. Again, you need a good test kit because most test kits and strips don't go up that high.

"A small amount of bubbles and tiny brown/white bubble scum" is not normal. Your pictures indicate cloudy water as well. If your chemistry were "done just right" the water would be crystal clear with no residue. I can't find anything about "the dazzel spa products line". I could make some suggestions if you will describe how you manage your water chemistry and what products you use. For example, I use the bromine three step method in my tub. I have a bromide bank of at least 50 ppm of sodium bromide. I have about 50 ppm of borates to help stabilize pH. I use bromine tabs (BCDMH) in a floater exactly like the one you have. I use 8.25% bleach to oxidize bather waste after each soak. I manage pH and TA by adding baking soda. Those are the only things I use regularly in my tub. I have dry acid if needed, and use calcium chloride to increase calcium hardness at initial fill. I use no other products, and my water is crystal clear. You need a good test kit to manage a tub properly. Test strips are not accurate or reliable enough, and pool store testing can be wildly variable and inaccurate. A proper kit for a bromine tub is the Taylor K-2106 test kit. It is a bit pricey at $50 to $75 or more depending on where you get it, but it includes the FAS-DPD test for bromine which is essential for good management. The best internet price I have found in the US is at Amato Industries.

I can't think of any good reason to use an enzyme in a spa. If you keep the water chemistry balanced and keep the sanitizer level up where it should be, then your water will remain crystal clear at all times. Remember, the pool store makes money by selling you products. They would go out of business if all they could sell you was bleach, borax and baking soda.

I wouldn't use that product simply because of the copper in it. Besides which it has dichlor as the chlorine source, so it will add cyanuric acid to your water so you wouldn't use it continually anyway. Copper in excess can stain clothing and hair green. The only things you need to manage your spa water are chlorine, cyanuric acid, and a few things to balance the water chemistry like baking soda, calcium, and dry acid or muriatic acid. You should read the sticky post above in this forum Dichlor/bleach Method In A Nutshell, as well as the other sticky posts so you'll have an idea how to handle things. You can get most of the supplies you need at the grocery and save lots of money. There are a few things you will need to get at the pool store, but don't let them sell you stuff you don't need. .

I use bromine, so I don't have experience with a chlorine tub, but I often put the lid on right after adding the bleach. According to what I've read, it is better to leave the lid off a little while to allow off gassing. With a CYA of 30, shock level is 12 ppm, and with a CYA of 40, shock level is 16 ppm, for equivalent effective disinfecting chlorine amounts. It will usually take longer than one or two hours for the chlorine level to come down. The actual time depends on how much material that needs to be oxidized is in the water. If there is a lot, the chlorine can come down rather quickly. If a tub is managed correctly, it should not be necessary to take the chlorine up to shock level. If you keep your water chemistry balanced, and the chlorine level always above 2 ppm (for 30 CYA) or 3 ppm (for 40 CYA), and if you add enough bleach after each soak to neutralize the bather waste, then you should never have to shock. I use bromine, but the principal is the same. I have only shocked twice in the last 4-1/2 months, and one of those was to test the bromine demand of the tub.

You can let the water go down to ambient temperature as long as you keep the water chemistry balanced and sanitized. For that purpose, 1 hour of circulation per day should be sufficient. Two times thirty minutes per day at 12 hour intervals may be better, but would be more inconvenient. If you use chlorine, never let the free chlorine level fall below 2 ppm at any time, and with a CYA of 30 ppm you should target 4-6 ppm free chlorine. Do your testing while or just after the circulation pump is running.

An enzyme is a protein produced by a living cell, but an enzyme product does not have any living cells in it.

I own a Coleman Lay-z-spa which is similar to yours but is made by Bestway, so the pump may be a little different. However, they are similar enough that I think they work about the same. On my spa, you have the option to turn the filter off if you want, but when you turn it off no water circulates, and you can not heat the water. My wife and I use the spa on average for about 10 sessions per week, so we keep the filter and heater on 24 hours a day. I think this is the way it is designed to be used. If you let the water cool down to ambient temperature, it will take quite a while to heat it up for use, especially in cooler weather.

Shock level depends on the amount of CYA. At zero CYA, shock level is 10 ppm. At 30 ppm of CYA, shock level is 12 ppm. You do need CYA in the tub if you use chlorine as the sanitizer. You probably don't want the CYA in the tub to go above about 30 to 40 ppm, although I am not really sure if the SWCG changes those numbers. Please see the sticky post above on the Dichlor/bleach Method. MPS does not add CYA, but it is expensive, and does add other dissolved solids. I would recommend using household bleach as an oxidizer and/or source of chlorine when you need to shock. Just be sure you don't use splashless bleach or scented bleach. Just get straight 8.25% bleach from the grocery store or Walmart. You can use the Pool Calculator to determine how much bleach to add to achieve a certain free chlorine ppm.