shoelace

RDspaguy, yep, never had to struggle to keep the chemistry balanced. I think that with the bromine salt generator, so long as you start out with good clean water you're good ... just need to take your time to dial it in properly - takes a few days of patience - you want to avoid over-correction.

CanadianSpaTech - Sure, generators are costly to replace - everything is costly to replace. Pumps are costly to replace, heaters are costly to replace. Point is, these things are not designed to be replaced on a regular basis. Salt generators are not rocket science. No reason for them to fail any sooner than any other spa component. My father got one of the earliest Bromine salt generators in 2005. His lasted 11 years. I expect my more modern unit to last much longer. I don't have these "carbon rods" you refer to - instead, I just purchase an electrode module. Costs 300$ and took me 10 minutes to install - no technician required. I'll need to do that every 5 years - no big deal. My last module I ran for 5 years and then had to start turning up the setting. Called Gecko and they confirmed the module was at the end of its life. But certainly no black soot everywhere ... or blue green water - or gummy seals. My generator has never offered such excitement ... it really is a very boring piece of hardware. Sorry CanadianSpaTech, I really wonder if you are not conflating your Chlorine salt generator experience with Bromine salt generators. Because your examples are alien to me. And for the record, my spa dealer did not recommend a bromine salt generator. He only installs these units on request. When I asked him why he says he has clients that love them and clients that don't use them properly - so he does not recommend them. Also, I am not a Gecko fan. It just so happens that I bought a spa that uses many Gecko products - but I have nothing to compare to - so I can't be a fan. Having said that - my Gecko products have not caused any problems. I had to replace my spa's main console display within the warranty period (no biggie). And I had a nice chat with a technical rep to confirm that I needed a new electrode module. So nothing to complain about.

RDspaguy - after water change it takes me a few days to tune my system. Once tuned I test before using the tub for hardness, bromine, alkalinity & pH. 99% of the time my readings are perfect - falling nicely in the "ok" range of my test strips. Maybe two or three times per year my bromine level is high or low - then I will tweek my setting. And that's it. After a 3 week vacation I will return and it will still read the same. It's really boring. I confess that there is a "boost" button on the unit that you use each time you use the tub. If two people are using the tub - enter 2 then boost - and that seems the account for the load of the bathers. I experiment occasionally to make sure the readings look good before and after using the tub - but no need really. You mention adjusting the balance once per day ... or once per week. Very strange - because I only change the setting a few times per year and my readings are spot-on. Given all this - is it still possible that my generator is causing damage? And I continue to wonder whether most people's negative experiences are related to chlorine salt generators - not bromine salt generators. Again, I think the bromine salt generator is most suited to spas while the chlorine salt generators are most suited to swimming pools.

CanadianSpaTech - Great to hear you have so much experience with bromine salt generator systems. I'm taking that as an invitation to ask more questions. Actually, I think your lifespan estimate for graphite cell replacement is overly optimistic - I think about 5 years is more realistic. You state that the "laundry list of costly problems" occurs when the unit is misused or when it fails - correct? Just to be clear - in your opinion, if the unit is not misused, or does not fail, there is no "laundry list of costly problems" - correct? I can easily see that if you misuse your spa in any way ... regardless of setup ... you are asking for a "laundry list of costly problems" - but if the unit fails - don't you simply replace the unit? I suppose that is costly - but by no means a "laundry list". Am I misunderstanding something here? Bromine salt generating systems were introduced to the market around 2005 - does that really make them outdated? Seems pretty recent to me. Maybe I'm getting old. As for the technology being unnecessary - spas are an unnecessary luxury - that we think is worth it. Similarly, bromine salt generators are unnecessary luxuries that appear to be similarly worth it. Why wouldn't you want to tune your system once ... over a few days ... and lock it in until your next water change. Is that not a wonderful luxury to add to your spa ownership?

RDspaguy - fair enough. Sounds like you have a great procedure that works well for you. Personally, my spa chemistry knowledge and experience is very limited - it extends only to positive experiences with my bromine salt generator. Hence, I'd like to understand what you mean by: "if you are going to have a continuous destruction of your balance, you should have a continuous on demand system to correct it. Otherwise, the damage you are causing outweighs the benefits". I'm thinking you mean that your balance is destroyed by using the tub - not sure what you mean by "on demand system to correct it". Is that the person that adds chemicals to balance it? And I'd like to know what the "damage" you refer to is. Sorry if I'm missing something that might be clear to those with more expertise.

RDspaguy - wait, I think I misread something again! I'm guessing that when you wrote "both bromine and chlorine generators" - you are not meaning "bromine generators" - just bromine in general. If so, my apologies - unfortunately, that sentence can be read both ways. However, I still maintain that one should not infer that problems with chlorine generators are shared with bromine generators without any evidence or experience.

RDspaguy - clearly there's an editing/typo issue with your post - because it is nonsensical. You write that you have never heard of a bromine generator and then follow by writing that you have an opinion about them. I'm guessing what you mean to say is that: because you have negative experiences with chlorine generators you just assume, based on no experience at all, that bromine generators have the same problems. If so, you are not alone. Seems like everyone who slags-off bromine generators has never actually had any real experience with them. But you only need to read the operating manuals from each system to see that they are completely different. Specifically, unlike chlorine generators, bromine generators you largely just set & forget. Everyone I know who has a bromine generator system is totally satisfied - no issues. Having said that, I actually only know 3 owners of bromine generators. Somehow the chlorine generators, which I don't think are best suited to a spa application, have won the market.

I misread the report. Potassium monopersulfate is considered problematic when used with sodium bromide spa sanitizers - but the report separately indicates risks associated with bromine electrolysis devices used with sodium bromide. But it sounds like you need to be drinking your spa water to be at risk - not something that normal people would do. In the appendix it suggests that the risks from one's spa is less than for taking a swim in the ocean - and no one is suggesting it is a risk taking a swim in the ocean. Not sure what to think. My guess would be that if you are using the bromine salt generating system as directed, and you don't drink your spa water, the risk is not significant. Anyone have any expertise on the issue?

Wow, I just read this a couple of days ago. I feel super lucky that my bromine salt generating system is already set up - and that I was able to buy a big stack of sodium bromide charges at a good price before Canadian stocks run out. The danger, apparently, is only when you use potassium monopersulfate in combination with the bromine salt generator. Of course, you never ever need to use potassium monopersulfate when using a bromine salt generator - so the whole rule is completely stupid. In fact, I have never had to add any chemical to my spa except for the initial sodium bromide charge after refilling my spa. IMO this is a great loss for the Canadian spa industry. Sodium Chloride salt generator systems are no substitute - I would not go that route. In fact, if I had to replace my spa tomorrow , I'd find a way to procure myself another bromine salt generating system. In this regard - USA is truly #1 - shame on Canada.

I just wanted to update this because my bromine generator electrodes burned-out after 5 years. I asked my father specifically and he said his also lasted about 5 years. Replacement electrodes run about 300$ - and the whole system costs about 800$ when originally installed. The electrode replacement was an easy job. Hence, Lifetime costs running the system assuming: 12 year life of unit, 4 year life of electrode cartridge & 2 salt loads per year = 800 + 2x300 + 2x12x40 = 2360$ Hence, average cost per year of bromine generator system per year = 2360/12 = 197$ per year So a bit under 200$ per year if my calculations are correct. It'd be interesting to compare that to the price of chemicals. Personally, I have no idea what they cost as I have never had to add any.

PreservedSwine. Sorry, I still think you are lumping bromine salt generators together with chlorine salt generators. And your post is generalizing to the point of being uninformative & perhaps misleading. A few points: Bromine is more stable at spa temperatures than chlorine and you do not get sanitizer accumulation under the spa lid. With bromine there’s no need for sun & rain to break it down. I can have the lid on for 4 weeks and there will be no significant increase in total bromine. This lid does not matter one bit. On or off is totally irrelevant. You say it is not unusual to find bromine levels over 50ppm??? Wow, I have never had my bromine go past 10ppm. It always stays in the 3-5ppm range. Clearly your customers have not followed the instructions. It is impossible to follow the instructions and get readings like that. Chemistry is not about luck – it’s science. It’s not that I’m at all lucky – I just follow the instructions. Maybe this happens with the chlorine systems – not with the bromine ones. As for CYA – that’s a chlorine salt problem. Nothing to do with bromine. That’s why, again, I am thinking that chlorine salt generators are really only suitable for lower temperature swimming pools. And you are wrong, constant care is not required to keep the PH balanced on bromine salt generators – that is for sure. I’ve never had a low PH level reading in 4 years – neither has my father in his 10 years. It just does not happen. You are correct – units do not have any way to determine the amount of sanitizer in the water. In my opinion, while desirable, it would be too complicated to integrate such a feature. But litmus strip testing is simple & easy. You need to follow the instructions & be patient when tuning your electrode power. Set your power, wait a day, perform litmus test, adjust setting & repeat – until you reach an appropriate steady state. Then you lock it in – and for the most part your good to go until your next water change – saving one or two small tweaks for fine tuning. It seems clear that you have clients that simply can’t follow instructions. Again, my father & I can’t just be lucky. Chemistry is science – luck has nothing to do with it. All I can think is that there are some customers that are ill-suited to the art of tuning something. But it’s actually pretty straight forward - just a small initial investment of time, patience & common logic. I would really love to actually hear from people with first hand experience with bromine salt generators. It really appears that I’m the only one. I have not found one other post on this site from someone else with first hand experience. It’s very lonely. And btw, PreservedSwine, I don’t think 14 years of first hand experience with bromine salt generators (if I count my fathers 10 years worth of experience) is anything to sneeze at. Customer experience is not the same as first hand experience. Another question - what would you estimate is the ratio of chlorine salt generator complaints vs bromine salt generator complaints? – my guess - maybe 20:1.

PreservedSwine, do you have specific experience with bromine salt systems? As for chlorine salt, I only read the manual and the maintenance requirements look over-the-top compared with the simplicity of the bromine salt systems. Are you sure these two systems can be put in the same basket? As for costs, my father got one of the early bromine salt systems back in 2005 for about 800$. The system finally packed it in in 2015. 10 years of maintenance free service – seriously, 10 years and nothing broke or needed to be replaced. He spent about 60$ a year for two bromine charges. So, in total over a 10 year period he spent $140/year (60$ for bromine salt plus 80$ to cover capital costs over 10 years). His tub chemistry was always excellent – certainly not over-sanitized. He was always amazed when they went on extended 4 week vacations that the chemistry stayed perfect. Does that not sound worth it to you? Does 140$/year sound high given the luxury of not needing to add chemicals regularly? Hence, when I got my tub in 2013, I went for bromine salt. 4 years later – it works perfectly. Nothing to replace or fix. The chemistry is always perfect week after week. So that’s 14 years of first hand experience – for the life of me I just can’t imagine how bromine salt systems “are awful for most customers”. It is one of the greatest mysteries to me why these systems are not super popular. But they clearly are not – no one recommended bromine salt systems to me back in 2013. I was told it was a mistake by dealers. Fortunately I relied on my fathers experience. Please enlighten me – what am I missing? Could it be that the problems are only with chlorine salt systems? Can you give examples of what is going wrong with peoples bromine salt systems? I’m just really curious.

From my personal experience - and from research - salt chlorine generators are better for pools while Bromine salt generators are better for spas. My bromine salt generator has been working perfectly for 4 years so far - I can leave for weeks at a time & when I return the chemistry is perfect. You can review my other posts for more details.

Great. Glad you bought from a Canadian manufacturer. Just in time for the cooler weather around the corner.

Marquis is another shallow water spa - harder to get submerged in freezing weather.

Hot Springs & Sundance are both shallow water spas. No good for Canada. You want something 40" deep ... you'll appreciate it when its -20 degC and you can easily get your shoulders submerged.

Sodium bromide - bromine generator. No odor, feels good on skin, minimal maintenance.

Nice little tub - nice price. For two it should be spacious. If I'd gone for a similar width tub it would have allowed 10" extra for parking my car - that would have been nice.

With a Bromine salt generator you don't need to monitor ph closely. I check once a week generally ... but sometimes when I'm on vacation I leave it for 3 weeks. When I come back it's always the same. Sort of boring. The spa boy chlorine salt system sounds much more exciting ! To need to monitor it no matter where you are in the world must make one feel very special. Alas, bromine levels are not as sensitive to ph as chlorine - so even if ph did fluctuate a bit, which it doesn't - no big deal. I thought that foam filled spas & perimeter insulated spas were both old technologies? There may be pros & cons to both ... but there's nothing innovative about spraying your insulation on the tub vs spraying it on the box that holds the tub. This is not a new thing.

It's always nice to drive down to Vermont for skiing & hiking. Nice state. I'm very happy if my review was helpful to you. I find that for two people this spa is luxury big - for three it is still very comfortable. But if I were to have four people regularly I'd want something bigger. And for four people the lounger version, the Radium, would not suffice. I looked at some of the smaller two seater spas, like the bullfrog, but am happy I went bigger with a small but deep 4 seater. I'm also glad I went with a spa that has a more open bench corner seat ... that is a bit higher for cooling down. I find I actually spend the most time in this seat. What spas are you looking at? Have you decided? I don't blame you for not considering an H2O spa due to the lack of dealers in the area ... but their website is quite helpful anyway.

I notice that most (if not all) posts on this site regarding salt generator systems are for chlorine salt as opposed to bromine salt. I read about Onzen & ACE – but not about any specific bromine generator systems. Does anyone else besides me have experience with bromine salt generator systems? When my father bought his bromine salt generator back in 2005 the consensus he heard was that chlorine salt generators were designed for pools & were not effective for spas due to the higher temperatures & PH range ... but that the bromine salt generators were more stable & very effective for spas. Anyone know how much truth there is to that? I’m just trying to reconcile the positive experience I’ve had with my bromine generator vs some of the more negative posts regarding chlorine salt generators. I have not read any discussion regarding the advantages & disadvantages of each system. Anyone?

So I checked out hottubuniversity.com. I found the article “Salt Systems on Hot Tubs” very strange. My experience with a bromine salt generator has been excellent as described in my review post: The author presents a ridiculous rant against all salt generator systems based solely on his reading of pages from an Onzen Arctic spa technical guide. He presents no personal salt generator experience. While speaking only about the Onzen salt chlorine system he implies that bromine salt generators work the same way. From personal experience I know this to be false. I just add 40$ worth of sodium bromine and nothing else until my next water change. So this did not bother me too much because I thought I’d just present my experiences with a bromine generator system. I tried to post it 3 times but it was rejected for publication. Unusual a university where you are not permitted to present an alternative opinion. And the website’s moniker is “Unbiased Information For The Informed Consumer”. Ya right. This website is certainly biased and presents very misleading information. Are salt chlorine generators & salt bromine generators really so similar one can lump them together like that? Should one not have some personal experience with a salt generator system before writing what pretends to be an informative article?

A bromine salt generator works all by itself. No need for an ozone generator. So far as I'm aware it is not even designed to be used with anything else.

Easy to calculate the maximum heat recovery from a 24-hour recirculation pump motor. Let's assume a 1/4 hp motor (186 watts) & 75% efficiency. That equates to an energy loss (heat) of 46.6 watts ... a bit more than a 40 watt light bulb. 46.6 watts per year would cost about 2$ per month or about 25$ per year (taking electricity costs 0.06$/kWh). But really, in the summer you don't want that heat since the water gets too hot anyway. So, I'd estimate you could recover about a maximum of 15$ per year with perimeter insulation - not really very much. Also, what would stay warmer – coffee in a styrofoam cup with a styrofoam lid or a cup of coffee in a thin plastic cup inside a styrofoam box made from panels of styrofoam of similar thickness. Obviously the first one since the styrofoam box has larger surface area for heat loss and maybe there would be leaks around your styrofoam box panels. Theoretically, maybe perimeter insulation has advantages, but combined with issues of electronics and motors overheating and the possible inferiority of the insulation itself – it is far from a clear winner. If it was, I’m sure all the other companies would switch. Or maybe I’m wrong ... show me some math to prove otherwise.