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dlleno last won the day on June 1 2020

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  1. OK fair enough what I meant here is that regular addition of chlorine to a bromine spa, With bromide bank present, is the same motion and quantities used to manually add chlorine to a chlorine spa. In my experience, the one step 85/15 granules do result in hypochlorous acid on the first application because of insufficient bromide bank. It's 85 percent dichlor and 15 percent sodium Bromide . Using this product on a regular basis builds the bank gradually
  2. no, sodium bromide is not like CYA at all; it is the bromide bank that is oxidized to produce bromine sanitizer. higher sodium bromide levels are not bad. and even if your bromide bank is zero or very low -- when you add the one-step product your spa will be mostly chlorine (from the dichlor) and the FAS-DPD test will respond to the chlorine (sample will turn pink) rising levels of CYA due to increasing use of dichlor is also relatively benign for bromine. the conversion to bromine still happens very quickly per chem geek such that high CYA isn't a problem either for a bromine spa.. if you are experiencing disappearing bromine levels consider purging with ahh-some. you could have biofilms in there chowing down on your sanitizer I happen to agree that the one-step product is expensive. get bromide starters (granular or liquid) and then use dichlor for the oxidzer. maintaining a bromine spa in this way is exactly the same as maintaining a chlorine spa except (in a bromine spa) the dichlor oxidizes the bromide bank into bromine sanitizer
  3. If I may -- with apologies for posting on an old thread -- to the OP: did you say you shocked with both SCP and MPS and noted no increase in bromine?
  4. There are some good stickies here on the forum but it is a lot of information to digest in a short time. You're on the right path though--your first step is to purge with ahh-some per the label directions (including the use of Chlorine) because you may in fact have a biofilm problem (my brand new spa was delivered contaminated, straight from the factory). pm me as well if you like for more details. As many others on the forum here, I'm not a fan of the test strips. you gotta get a drop-wise test for bromine and Taylor just as the best ones on the market imho. something to think about -- the answer to your "bromine level" question is twofold: first, make sure that biofilms are not consuming your bromine (purge, as above) and then get an accurate tester. the strips can get fooled easy so they are just not reliable. btw, chasing TA, by itself -- in order to hit a certain number -- is fruitless. most of us here advocate for chasing pH (but towards the high end of the acceptable scale) and let TA fall where it may (but no lower than about 50ppm.) but lets first get your spa clean -- in situations like this I recommend purging twice with ahh-some -- the first time you just add ahh-some to your warm water and follow the label dirs. wipe up the gunk, drain and refil, then dose AGAIN with ahh-some (in the cold water) to see if you get any new release. I've done countless experiments here so feel free to pm me if you like. imho you just don't know if you have a squeaky clean spa unless you have purged with ahh-some without getting any new release (i've coached some through as many as 10 in severe situations). once we get your spa sqeaky clean then you should consider investing in an accurate test ,cause the strips are just not going to serve you very well
  5. its not clear to me what the question is, so apologies for that. For bromine testing, I highly recommend and use the Taylor K2106 kit. you put in the powder (actual amount is not critical) and then you add the reagent, drop wise (count the drops). its very effective an accurate. this has served me well over the years, better than the color-matching test blocks. I've never trusted the strips at all. As for the spa -- again pardon me if I didn't get the question right -- if the gunk is hard even under water then its more likely to be calcium scale. If it is naturally soft under water but hardens when dry then its more likely biofilm or a combination of biofilm and other non-oxidized residue/gunk. the ahh-some purge is a great way to level set. in a situation where there is a problem to correct, make sure to perform at least TWO purges -- or in tough situations it can sometimes take more than two purges to obtain a squeaky clean spa.
  6. I always use shock levels of chlorine when purging with ahh-some. consider that ahh-some is releasing a lot of miserable bad guys that could themselves be potentially providing safe harbor for other bad guys. bottom line -- the ahh-some label directions are clear (use elevated chlorine levels). Just as a point of reference I always shock to at least 15ppm during the purge. yes, Ahh-some is EPA certified to kill biofilms but don't let that allow you to forget the chlorine step -- you gotta kill those bad guys that ahh-some releases, and you gotta have chlorine for the complete kill. As for the lawn: you can always add peroxide just before draining onto the lawn but also keep in mind that heat is more likely to harm the lawn than chlorine, which will quickly dissipate. Still, -- a little drug store hydrogen peroxide works good as a chlorine neutralizer. Just give the chlorine time to work before you hamstring it with peroxide 🙂 . I have done this in actual practice -- in general terms, use about as much 'Peroxide as you would ordinary bleach to raise chorine to the same level you are trying to neutralize. I'm sure there are more precise/cerebral formulas; thats just what I have found to work. In this situation I would do a full on purge with ahh-some and use the ahh-some dosed water (also with 10-15ppm chlorine) to wipe everything down. At this point, vinegar unnecessary unless you are combatting calcium scale. Dish soap has way too foaming/surfactants -- I never put any dish soap in the spa itself; ahhsome has enough surfactants to foam up enough by itself, and you probably don't want to be the regional distributor of suds 🙂 In short, just follow the ahh-some label directions, and wipe everything down with water dosed with ahh-some and chlorine.
  7. Lots of questions that I'll let others answer but with respect to cleaning or purging: 1. Spa marvel looks to be a detergent based cleaner which in my tests have not been effective especially against the bad guys that can arrive with a newly delivered spa. I haven't tested spa marvel cleaner itself...just other detergent based products that appear to be similar.. 2. As regards the the new spa. Mine was delivered with live nasty bad guys in the pipes as a consequence of the mfg wet testing and subsequent shipping, storage and transportation delays. I tried a few products claiming to address this problem but none performed better than ahh-some. So I highly recommend purging with ahh-some as part of your prep. For me its a must. Be sure to follow the label directions which include removing filter(s) and dose with chlorine along with the ahh-some. Ahh-some contains some very effective molecule busting properties that will break up biofilms and (depending on tub condition) can leave quite a residue on the vessel walls, which is why the label directions specify filter removal (the goo would otherwise clog up the filters and could harm your jet pumps) .
  8. So what's unsafe about shocking upon return as i have indicated? That's the water correction procedure im talking about. No one including me has ever promoted 9% ADBACs as a sanitizer.
  9. but am going to modify my test criteria -- upon returning from an extended absence, a shock is warranted.
  10. Nor do we test for pathogens after any other water correction procedure.
  11. to stay within the context of this thread (extended absences) and to avoid getting wrapped around the axle over combs and quats, I'm going to bring the Hot Tub Serum topic back down to reality and concentrate on what the label says, what EPA says, what I am testing, and why it is relevant to the subject at hand. The Label says it is a biocide in residential hot tubs. I suppose that assumes no combs go into your spa, a restriction I can live with. EPA says they believe the label. I have found 'Serum to be profoundly effective at flattening the sanitizer decay rate and I have tested it for absences as long as two weeks with no sanitizer (or bather load). Going forward, no combs will be harmed but I will test to see if the product is useful to maintain a covered, heated but unused spa for extended absences, all the while staying within label dosing specifications in a "dichlor then switch to bleach" context (I set aside the amount of dichlor that represents about 30ppm CYA. when that gets used up I switch to bleach. I've switched to bleach). My test indicator will be the condition of the water after such absences, and the ability to dose with sanitizer and use the spa immediately upon returning. those who are familiar with my work know that I have been testing spa products ever since my 2013 Grandee was delivered to me with active biofilms growing in the pipes. that experience taught me about biofilms, snippets of which I have posted here over the years but which are consolidated on my hobby site: https://rvdoug.com/hot-tub-maintenance/
  12. Why do you assume I missed posts? I've read them. But I've also been doing this for 3 decades lol I just learned it from experimentation. Yes Serum has more than comb cleaner in it.
  13. Ok. So hot tub serum has comb cleaner in it, The cdc is mis informed, and chlorine pucks don't exist without cya. Check I'm getting tremendous results with Serum. Even "good enough" pH buffering for those not afraid to let TA fall, and I haven't used borates for 6 years. ll post more results as I obtain them!
  14. nice! I'm a simple guy really. allergic to complexity; but I did read the Hot Tub Serum label and noticed that it calls for a weekly dose for maintenance. I also noticed that the product is EPA registered to control biofilms when used as directed. This may be an assumption, but all of this tells me that whatever they've got in that stuff must exhibit some sort of decay rate that can be predicted -- otherwise they wouldn't specify a weekly dose! I've already pushed its limits by going two weeks with no chlorine so I figure its just a natural next step to push things even further. I'm not sure if this would be "off label" or not -- but I see it as "within the label directions" -- I'll just dose with a four-week supply and then go four weeks! how simple is that. this could be a cool solution to avoid CYA build-up, so stay tuned. I can see chlorine level monitoring in my future. I just need to set aside four weeks where I have to stay out of my spa... that won't be fun lol 🙂. how does this CYA-eating stuff work?
  15. back to floaters -- if you are already carefully watching CYA and you've already "switched to bleach", then putting in a floater is going to raise CYA above your target and hamstring your chlorine for the rest of the water drain interval. If you've not already "switched to bleach", then you're likely ok -- at least until your next trip when the floater goes back in and CYA climbs again. So @samwise801 one alternative to the floater is to use Hot Tub Serum. I'm going to experiment with this stuff I think and see if I can push it beyond two weeks. I've already shown that the stuff really improves sanitizer decay rate and allows (no load) chlorine to go to zero, and I've gone two weeks without adding chlorine so I have no doubt it will be up to the challenge. The key here is no load. if you have biofilms already in your pipes then floaters just cover up the problem by over-sanitizing -- you'll just end up cranking up the dose rate while the CL gets consumed while fighting the biofilms. but if you've purged with ahh-some and gained the victory over biofilms you have a good chance of success utilizing the slow kill rates of the stuff in Hot Tub Serum. Start with a shock dose of chlorine, and the 'Serum will produce a wonderfully gentle decay rate (unless critters invade lol), and then you'll still have protection from the "QUAT" even with no chlorine (again, no bather load). experiments to come!
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