Dan The Spa Man

There are a few brands out there that most in the industry agree are of better quality. Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, Sundance, D1, Catalina, and Calderra are a few in my area that I look highly upon (And I am sure there are more that I missed and will be clearly pointed out by others on this thread). My advice is to stick with a better quality tub, but to also check into the quality of the dealers in your area. Make sure that the dealers have had their products/brands for at least 5 years, are reputable, and have fairly decent ratings with the BBB, reviews online, etc. The dealer is important b/c they will be supplying you with parts, service, and warranty work, etc. To follow a theme that was denoted above, Hot Springs is a better quality tub. However, if their dealer is sketchy I would avoid them and go with another similar brand/product if their dealer is more established/reputable. Wet test the tubs that make the final cut. I tell all of my customers that no matter what I say, if you are not comfortable in the tub/do not like the feel, then my presentation is moot. Good luck moving forward.

Greetings- I wouldn't limit yourself by requiring the frame to be steel: Homes across the USA are built with lumber, why not your swim spa? Steel framing tends to be used for cost controlled measures, though that is not how the "pitch" to use steel is relayed to the customer. Steel can rust just like would can rot. But neither will get to that point as there is no reason for water to be inside the cabin in the first place. Full Disclosure: I am a Catalina Spas dealer and we sell swim spas that use wood frames. However, that is indeed the industry standard and the superior method to use when constructing a swim spa. To be brand specific: Catalina uses a 3 ply shell construction process with a lip over design for the best weight distribution method in the industry. Catalina has been making swim spas for over 30 years and have perfected the technique so well that they now wholesale their shells to competitors. D1 is a fine brand. The only hang up I have with them is that Jacuzzi (Apollo Group) purchased the brand to add their swim spa line to their arsenal. As Jacuzzi has acquired a few other top notch lines (Sundance), the byproduct is that these brands are now made in Mexico (Which may or may not be a problem for you) but more importantly- Is the product you buy now still going to be built the same way in the future? Meaning: once the factory streamlines the assembly process, are parts/techniques going to be eliminated and will obsolete parts be available to purchase later? This may be a small factor to consider but I get many customers looking for discontinued parts that their original dealers no longer carry/have available, and I am not able to help them. It is because of my everyday encounters with customers who own other brands that are no longer able to get what they need that I relay this to you. Catalina has a few spas that you may like. The company's spas are still made in the USA (Which is now suddenly a rare occurance) but isn't perfect: Their website is still pretty rudimentary. Below is a link to some of the models they offer. http://www.catalinaspas.com/olympicseries2.html As this forum is frequented by many dealers/factory reps/salesmen, I have no doubt that you will find others who handle a specific product line that can further illuminate you as to other options out there in the industry. But your initial hunch is correct: Local dealers are a major part of the not only the decision making process, but in the long term as well. National brands just simply do not have the logistical support that local dealers provide, and your warranties/services on the back end will reflect that. Good luck moving forward. I am always available to help answer additional questions and will be periodically checking in on this thread.

I agree with the prevailing tone of responses: Box store tubs lack the quality, performance, options, service, and warranty that established brands provide via a local dealer. Cost should always be a factor, but in the long run, the difference between the initial savings at the point of sale is made up in service and warranty that local dealers will provide. And overall quality will usually be greater with a tub bought from a local dealer. I understand that most posters on this site are either owners/employees of local dealerships or workers from spa manufacturers. I myself have worked for a local dealer for the last 12 years, so my response may seem self-serving. However, I always tell all my customers that the smarter investment is via a tub from an established brand that is carried by an established dealer. Good luck moving forward.

Below is a copy/paste of an answer I gave a similar person in your scenario: "As a dealer, I try to educate each client as best as possible in order for them to make the best decision based upon their needs. As most customers know little of the industry and its products, I try to narrow their focus down to 3 things: Size, Layout/Configuration, and Price. Most don't know what they want, so I try to eliminate what they don't want. Size: Most spas range from 7' to 8' square. Find the right size for you based on where you are putting the spa, seating capacity needed, and so on. Layout/Configuration: Again, most spas are either all seats or incorporate one lounger. Almost all brands offer models that come either way. Price: Research brands in your area and sync their pricing to your budget to set realistic expectations. Keep with established brands that most in the industry agree are of better quality. But a huge factor in the decision-making process is your local dealers. As they are the company that will service your spa and provide warranty work, do your homework and filter out establishments with a history of poor customer service. I would also not consider a dealer that has carried a brand for less than 5 years. And remember: Bells and whistles are nice, but comfort and relaxation/therapy are what separates brands. Try to wet test the tubs that make the final cut. Most women & children tend to float in loungers, and taller/broader adults may have trouble in in smaller tubs. A salesman can talk until he is blue in the face about how great his brand/model is, but if you don't fit comfortably its all a moot point." To add to this, most of the brands you are looking at are manufactured in Mexico, use foreign parts, or both. I only point that out as you mentioned that was important to you. I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.

Ooops! I neglected to mention that I am a long time dealer in the industry.

Great topic. This will be difficult to surmise and formulate so good luck. And I am sure that it will create a backlash amongst the ill-rated brands so be prepared... I think a good way to approach this is to first establish guidelines on what brands to include and thus, what features to consider. Do you consider 110v or only 220v? Do you consider tubs that are international or only national? Do regional brands make the cut? Do you lump in the secondary lines in with the major brands (Ala Tiger River and Hot Springs) or do you keep them in a class by themselves? What happens if a line has certain features/parts/products that are only on, say, their ultra-premium lines but not on their more modestly priced models? Which then begs the question: Do you instead rate tubs on a size/price basis instead of a brand basis? Comparing apples to apples may only work if you can limit the variables to the smallest level possible. For the above reasons I don't necessarily see all of the points you mentioned as being on equal footing. Ex: Cabinet material seems to be of lessor importance along with cover as most are all UL & ASTM approved. However, that is merely my point of view and others may place great stock in such features. I do like that it at least generates a conversation via critical thinking and not a tit-for-tat among those who are out to hype their brand/product line. In addition to the points you mentioned I would also include quality of parts used and quality of shell construction. Volume of water moved per minute might be a factor to consider too. (As number of jets and motor size can be deceiving. 1 inch jets do not move the same amount of water as 5 inch jets, but they both count as one jet. Massive horsepower doesn't necessarily equate to great water flow if the plumbing, impellers, manifolds, and jets can't handle the output). Warranties are tricky. Some manufacturers have a warranty that is 100% whereas others are pro-rated. And then you have to consider who is giving the warranty: Is it the manufacturer? Or is there a 3rd party offering an extended warranty? Or is it the dealer covering additional years? This can lead to an imbalance of warranties across the nation. Does BRAND X have the same warranty in, say, Sarasota as offered in New York? I hope this comes across as suggestions and ideas and not as snark and derogatory. I am indeed interested in the thoughts of others and to see further points of consideration that I neglected to address/think of. Good luck moving forward.

As Jacuzzi now owns D1, it wouldn't surprise me to see Sundance, Jacuzzi, & D1 sold or serviced from the same dealers in one form or another. This may not be the case now, but it could happen in the future. However, I may be completely off on my prediction. Dealer support is key b/c the quality of the product is fairly consistent as it all comes from the same source: The manufacturer. Dealers, however, are not all the same. And as the dealer is going to be the one who services your spa, in or out of warranty, its critical to do your homework on your local providers. I cannot attest to every region but in my area and most areas I've visited, dealers tend to only service products that they personally sell. Most do not service other brands. They also have a radius in which they service. Some do not service spas outside that radius, while others may venture beyond that radius for an additional fee/trip charge. Other forum users may be able to expand on this with knowledge of what is the norm in their regions... In my experience, most message boards/user reviews tend to draw those who want to report a negative experience, whereas those who have positive experiences seem to be less compelled to tell others/report it on a message board, etc. The Better Business Bureau and Angie's List are fairly reliable sources for checking in on your local businesses. Forums like this can provide great information as well. But as comments on this thread can attest to, many have an agenda to promote, so be careful. Most dealers and industry followers can agree that the 3 finalists you have selected are pretty comparable in quality. If the dealers of the 3 products are all fairly reputable then it all comes down to the specific units you are looking at. Wet test each unit (if that option is available) to see which tub is the most comfortable (not just in terms of jet pressure but in physical comfort- Do you like sitting/lounging in one more than the other?). As I tell each of my customers- I can tell you all the great things about my brand but if you do not fit comfortably into the tub, its all a moot point. I hope that this makes sense and helps you in narrowing your decision. Good luck moving forward.

To hit on a question from Spa God that got overlooked: Yes- Catalina offers WiFi via Balboa. I can speak to that as a Catalina Dealer. I cannot speak to Beachcomber, though. I think the points we can all agree upon is that any new spa purchaser should do their homework. And every sale needs to consider the quality of the dealer heavily when making their final decision. Good luck going forward.

Congrats on your decision to purchase a tub. There is a lot of meat here- some easy to answer and some not so easy. I'll touch on a few things to try to help you out. Regarding efficiency, most tubs on the market that are 220v are pretty efficient, and almost all will have an "Economy" mode that you can run set your tub to during the warmer months to further help you reduce overall costs, and will keep youf ability to heat the tub at its lowest output as possible. As most tubs are designed to protect against the perils of winter, having something that is okay for the desert is a fairly easy find. Most tubs now toss in "Bells and whistles" for free. Rightly so, you should indeed ask if you can forgo the things you do not need but some spas only come with LED lighting, Waterfalls, etc. Bluetooth is becoming more and more ingrained into audio systems that today's tubs are outfitted with. Pertaining to Wifi- Balboa Instruments is working on an app for your phone that will connect your phone to the spa's control panel/motherboard. Balboa deals in control panels & power packs and is carried by a large portion of spa manufacturers but you'll need to specifically ask what brands/models can be outfitted with this technology. Which leads me to.... Dealers. Many posters on here are or work for dealers and/or manufacturers, and most agree that while there are an upper-tier of tubs that are industry leaders, that will never trump the quality of the dealer that stands behind to product post-sale. Make sure your dealer is established and reputable, lest you get stuck with a quality product with zero post-sale support. This is directly tied to some of your queries regarding warranties and overall tub quality. Lastly, I would never recommend having anything set directly against a spa's cabinet other than approved products (Steps, cover lifts, etc). A retaining wall is better as 1) Ground water can get into the cabin of the spa and corrode/erode/destroy the components of the spa 2) Earth/Ground water can destroy the cabinet, reducing its ability to insulate the spa, reduce its efficiency, and its overall safety 3) As you acknowledged- Any number of pests can and will try to get into the tub. Why make their job easier 4) It may void warranties 5) If there is ever service work to be done, most techs can only work on what they can access. If they cannot access a side of a spa they are unlikely to work on it. Most spas manufactured are designed to sit above the ground, self-contained, and require access around it. I hope this helps. I am sure many other posters will add to or follow up with points I made or failed to address. Good luck moving forward.

Two solutions I recommend using common household products that will not harm the spa surface is a solution of vinegar & warm water, and citric acid (Depending upon what the build-up actually is). If the build-up is a metal deposit, apply citric acid (Vitamin C tab, a wedge of lemon/lime/orange) to the problem areas. If the citric acid dissolves the build-up, the problem is a metal deposit (In my region, its typically a calcium build-up). Your local dealer will have metal reducers available to add to the water that will rid your surface of the problem. If the build-up is a chemical deposit/scum build-up, I have suggested a mix of 1 part vinegar to 4 parts water and that has worked well in the past. Again, both of these treatments will be safe for the surface of the spa. Good luck.

As a dealer, I find that at least half the problems with hot tubs are related to or a direct result of water chemistry imbalance. It is true that some spas are of greater quality than others. Yes, I am a Catalina dealer and yes (like many other users of this site) I like my brand. But in all there are many great quality brands out there, and they will all fall apart in an equally short amount of time if the water chemistry is neglected. And since water chemistry is a direct result of the customer's usage (and *not* typically covered by the manufacturer), the onus is on you to make sure that your spa continues to be cared for so that will last as long as possible. If you are mindful of your water chemistry and you select an upper-end brand, it is more than reasonable to expect 10+ years out of your hot tub with not too much back end investment on repairs. Ironically- I don't particularly care for message board complaints. When the right questions are asked, I have found that most complaints are either baseless (born out of insufficient overall hot tub education, misguided expectations, etc) or are a result of neglect on the customer's end. These forums, like many on the internet, are filled with some very knowledgeable responders, some that are out to only promote their product, and everywhere in between. So use caution when making your decision if your sources are primarily online user-generated material. As I posted on this thread above, my advice is to look for the dealers in your area and to visit their showrooms. Your local dealers are immensely important to the overall decision-making process. Good luck moving forward.

As a dealer, I try to educate each client as best as possible in order for them to make the best decision based upon their needs. As most customers know little of the industry and its products, I try to narrow their focus down to 3 things: Size, Layout/Configuration, and Price. Most don't know what they want, so I try to eliminate what they don't want. Size: Most spas range from 7' to 8' square. Find the right size for you based on where you are putting the spa, seating capacity needed, and so on. Layout/Configuration: Again, most spas are either all seats or incorporate one lounger. Almost all brands offer models that come either way. Price: Research brands in your area and sync their pricing to your budget to set realistic expectations. Keep with established brands that most in the industry agree are of better quality. But a huge factor in the decision-making process is your local dealers. As they are the company that will service your spa and provide warranty work, do your homework and filter out establishments with a history of poor customer service. I would also not consider a dealer that has carried a brand for less than 5 years. And remember: Bells and whistles are nice, but comfort and relaxation/therapy are what separates brands. Try to wet test the tubs that make the final cut. Most women & children tend to float in loungers, and taller/broader adults may have trouble in in smaller tubs. A salesman can talk until he is blue in the face about how great his brand/model is, but if you don't fit comfortably its all a moot point. I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.

Late to the party on this question but I am always trying to spread the word on the Olympic Series by Catalina. As Catalina doesn't advertise and is still privately owned, most don't know that they have been making Swim Spas for over 35 years. They currently have 12 different models and employ a variety of sizes and designs. Check out their website (www.catalinaspas.com) --Which is (admittedly) of a lessor quality than others-- for sizing and information. Good luck moving forward.

As a Catalina dealer, of course I always like to toss our brand into the ring. Made in Perris, CA, they are one of the few brands that are privately owned and American made. And we boast the most competitive warranty on the market. However, as echoed by others on this feed and elsewhere on this site, brands are only half of the equation. Your local dealer will be a huge factor in the decision, as they are going to provide you with service, warranty work, water chemistry advice, and so on. Most of your upper-echelon brands are of great quality so the dealer in your market will most likely be the deciding factor. Be sure to find out a brand and model that is what is best for you, and not what is best for the dealer. Good luck moving forward...

Catalina Spas has been manufacturing swim spas for over 30 years. All swim spas come equipped with various rowing and resistance exercise equipment to compliment their resistance jets. Check out the link below for further details. http://www.catalinaspas.com/olympicseries2.html

Apollo Group (Jacuzzi) bought D1 as they are looking to enter into the booming Swim Spa market. No word yet on how Apollo will position the brand against in-house brands Jacuzzi and Sundance.

Agreed and a great point you highlight: Most manufacturers indeed quote efficiency stats but fail to shed light on what that entails. Most efficiency ratings are based on conditions at their home plants in California, Mexico, etc. Efficiency ratings, in my humble opinion, are a non-issue. Some shells do not sit directly on the frame/cabinet, some tubs have air injection that relies on an external source, and so on, so forth. The bottom line is that the meter doesn't move quite as much as one would lead you to believe. In today's hyper-competitive sales environment, any difference, no matter how small, must be scrutinized to the fullest extent possible. If your main reason for choosing Spa A over Spa B comes down to efficiency, I hope it is because you have already explored other features first. Things like frame construction/build, shell & design, warranty, overall ability to move water, parts used, and who your local dealer is are all more important factors. Great chat all!

As a Catalina Spas Dealer myself, I am biased. But I have personally sold Catalina Spas for over 11 years while Catalina has been building Swim Spas for over 35 years. One main difference you will find on the market between competitors is Jets vs Propulsion systems. Catalina offers RiverWater Jets which are superior to other jet systems available. Propulsion systems will move a considerable amount of water but will not best the 8-9 MPG that Catalina can achieve. They surge less too. Between the quality of their 3-ply shell, construction, warranty (The best on the market), commercial-grade pumps, and overall ability to move water, Catalina has a solid product. Good luck moving forward!

+1. I own a swimming pool with swim jets and anything over 32 degree and it's near possible to swim any length of time, in fact 29 degree is best so a swim spa is actually not the ideal solution in my mind. Well in fact the h2x with wave propulsion would be the model you are looking for. Do not buy a jetted system. Now the REAL swim spas offered by MASTERSPAS are the Michael Phelps Signature spas. In your case I would recomend the Momentem 50...The wave technology is second to none. i have sold many Badu Jetted Systems and while they are nice, they are nothing compared to the wave, wave xp ,and the wave xp pro offered by MASTERSPAS. Do your self a favor and go to a better dealer who is informed...We offer a military discount of 20% right off hand, however I would not use your prior career choices as a deciding discount factor. If you really want a quality swim spa it's not about what the tax payers are willing to comp you for. It's about paying to play...bottom line if you want top of the line you are gonna pay 40k With respect- I disagree: Catalina offers an 18' Swim that we price at under $30k. (Full Disclosure: I am a Catalina Spas Dealer). RiverWater Jets (Provided by WaterWay) offers up to 8-9 MPH resistance and surges less frequently than propeller-based systems. Catalina also offers the best warranty available and the customer isn't paying for Michael Phelps' endorsement deal. Catalina has been making swim spas for over 35 years and their shells are so well made that they provide their shells to numerous competitors. My best advice for any consumer is to simply do their homework. Half of any spa sales is the brand but the other half is the dealer: A sentiment echoed by other users elsewhere in this site. Online sites like this are great places to find information but should only be used as guides. Visiting your local dealers is the best way to fully and fairly compare what is available in your area. Good Luck moving forward.

Agreed: At this point, Spas haven't evolved enough yet to produce a great quality price-point spa. As a dealer, I have learned that lesson the hard way and now would rather pass up on the $4000 than sell a sub-par product.

110v are very different from 220v. If your aim is for fun, a 110v is a great entry-level spa. Most are low cost and will get the job done. However, if you are looking for something longer term or specifically for hydrotherapy, 220v is the way to go. I am a dealer who has carried both types and I typically recommend 220v. Yes- They cost more so I understand exactly how this sounds. However, with a 220v, you are able to run your pump(s) and your heater at the same time, have multiple pumps/options, and longer warranties/longer lifespans, and so on, so forth. Most 110v (convertibles inc.) max out at a single 1.0/1.5HP and 10-15 jets, with a smaller "turn over" rate (The volume of water the spa can move per hour). Moreover, the 110v tends to be built with lessor quality parts upon a lessor quality designed frame/shell/equipment. It is true that there are better quality 110v models and manufacturers out there, but the point of most 110v units is to make a price point spa. As per cost- Prices vary by region. If you are looking for an affordable 220v unit and there are no dealers in your area that can meet your price point, you might consider a used/refurbished unit. But, this is just my opinion and I am just one guy. But as a small business manager who doesn't advertise I rely heavily on "Word of Mouth" to continue to generate leads. The better-informed my clients are, the better the decisions they make, and the more-likely they are to be satisfied in the long run, and the better my reputation grows. Good Luck!

As a 11 year veteran of the spa community, I would suggest looking into Catalina Spas. They are American made (Only Artic Spas can claim that from your current list) and have the largest warranty available on the market. They are a true thermolock tub (Energy-efficient/Well insulated) and their #1 export country is Canada (There is no difference between the builds in US/Canada, so it will combat the elements nicely). As a Catalina dealer, of course I am biased. The other spas you mentioned above are indeed great brands. However, after a thorough investigation of what Catalina has to offer, I am confident that their brand is superior. I recommend the XL8000 or XL9000 (One has a lounger, one doesn't). I would contact a dealer for further information and (Fullest Exclosure) Catalina's website is rather sub-par. But that aside, I do like the brand as a whole. Good luck in your search.