Mr. Ed

I see your point about similar tubs (up to a point), but I want a round tub, which is really different from the much more common square tubs with contoured seats. The Beachcomber dealer, who doesn't want to fill a Beachcomber 320x for me, wants me try one of his square tubs. I don't think so!

I've narrowed my search to a few tubs and I've called a couple of dealers to set up a wet test. The first one I called told me that it would take a day to fill the tub I'm interested in and get it ready. She even asked what temperature I preferred. We made an appointment, and I went over a day later and tried out the tub for about half an hour. The sales woman and her manager were there to answer questions, of course, but they gave me all the time I wanted to play around in the tub. It was what I expected after reading this forum, and I was impressed with their professionalism (and I liked the tub). Today I called another dealer (different brand) and got a completely different story. He told me that he had one tub which he kept full of water and that I could try it if I wanted to, but he wouldn't fill the model that I was interested in. He told me that all of the jets in all of the models they sell are the same, so I could try them in the tub they keep filled. I said I wanted to get the feel of the specific tub, not just the jets, and that I wouldn't drive a hundred miles if I couldn't try it. We left it at that. I plan to call another dealer tomorrow. I know that many of the people on this forum are dealers and technicians. What do you think? If I am willing to work around a dealer's schedule, is it unreasonable to expect to wet test a tub that is going to cost thousands of dollars? Am I missing something? Isn't a wet test standard for a buyer who wants one? Mr. Ed

Yeh, the ones around here are like that. It is interesting that so many cultures have developed technologies and rituals around getting hot, wet and sweaty. Off the top of my head: Japanese baths, Finnish saunas, American Indian sweat lodges, Turkish baths and steam rooms and of course modern hot tubs and spas. Any body know of any others? I think that when Finns came over here they built their sauna before they built the house.

When I started my research on tubs, I had no idea that there are as many options as there seem to be. Tell me about ABS and forever floors. ABS sounds waterproof, but thin. Does it have any insulation value? I'm concerned about conductive heat loss to the ground. Or, to put it another way, I don't want my hot tub to keep the ground from freezing! Mr. Ed

Thank you MDC. That is useful information. My cousin lives in Maine and my sister and brother-in-law do their hot tubbing in northern Vermont, so I know you get some real winters out there! Mr. Ed

Closed cell foam sheets are used for in-ground heating applications. Dig a trench and put in sheets of foam edgewise (i.e., 4 feet down) in a continuous perimeter around your floor. Put electric coils or pads or hot water pipes under the floor, and you have a very comfortable and cheap-to-run heating system. My point is that the foam can take all the water that mother nature can dump off the eves of your house or garage. Good foam just doesn't absorb much water, doesn't compress and doesn't lose its R value. I would think it would prevent heat conduction to the cold ground under a tub if it were applied right. Some one out there must have tried it or maybe those spa pads do the same thing. Mr. Ed

Happy birthday, Amanda. (I read everything) Mr. Ed

I asked this question as part of the discussion of foundations, but didn't get a reply, so here it is again. I've seen several ads for "spa pads." Six of them, interlocked, make a 96" x 96" foundation. They cost about $300. They look quick, cheap and easy to move if you decide to move your tub. They also look like they might add a little insulation, too. Which suggests another question: does insulation under a tub do any good. Before someone tells me that heat rises, just think about going camping without your ground pad or air mattress. Here in Minnesota our frost usually goes into the ground four or five feet-enough to freeze in under the center of a large tub. I'm thinking now that a couple of sheets of 2" closed cell foam under a tub might be a good idea. Has anybody tried it?

I just got some literature from Beachcomber. Their tubs look nice, but what is "Protec 4 wall insulation." Looks like full-foam to me. Is it?

Apart from keeping your water clean and chemically balanced is there some other kind of "water care" which affects the jets and other equipment? Does the type of filter or water treatment (eg., chlorine, bromine, ozone, etc.) have an effect on tub life or performance? You mention "ways to care for your water" that will reduce wear and breakage significantly. Don't keep me in the dark...what are these hot tub water secrets?

Do jets wear out? Do they break? If you decide you don't like one is it easy to replace?

Yahhhh! Forget the roll in the snow unless you want to proof-test your plumbing. If it is below zero, just stepping outside is enough. I wear sandals so my feet won't freeze to the ground if it is really cold. Actually, I like to sauna on cool rainy days, although I suppose that steaming middle-aged men standing around naked in the rain drinking beer probably looks pretty funky. Most of the saunas around here are just tight little wooden buildings in the woods with benches, a wood stove and a porch for your clothes. Plumbing and electricity are completely unnecessary although a nearby lake or shower is good. The building can just sit on railroad ties or blocks. That way you can tell the assessor it is your fish house. Mr. Ed (from the Finnish Triangle)

How about "spa pads?" The ones I see in the ads are six interlocked pads which form a 96" x 96" base for a tub. I was going to pour a concrete pad, but why bother if these things work? If I want to move the tub in a couple of years, I won't have a chunk of concrete to bust up. They also look like they might have some insulation value. Does anyone out there have any experience with them? Mr. Ed

I'm going shopping for a tub and I think I have a handle on some of the things to look for with respect to finishes, motors, pumps, insulation and so forth, but nobody says much about jets. I've been in tubs with all sorts of jets, but I've never really paid any attention to them (hey, they are underwater and hard to see). From the promotional material I've read, jets are made of plastics, ceramics, brass, stainless steel, etc. The folks with brass or stainless claim long life and trouble-freeness, if that is a word. Is this true? Should I care what the jets are made of? Likewise, in the long term, what kinds of jets are most popular? Even if something feels good in a short wet test, I can imagine getting tired of it if it is gimmicky. I read in one of these discussions that small, high intensity jets can make a person feel itchy. I want warmth and relaxation rather than an intense massage. Any suggestions? Mr. Ed

Well, round tubs arn't quite as rare as I thought when I started. The wooden ones like the Roberts tubs are beautiful, but I think I need a liner and some serious insulation up here. I have eliminated a brand or two based on some of your comments. Now I'm going to toss my swim suit in the car and go see some dealers. So far the short list looks like this (in no particular order): Vita Spa Cirque, Nordic Crown XL/Warrior XL, Solana RX, Freeflow Legend, Beachcomber 320, Artesian Aladdin and Great Lakes Sunlighter. This is probably enough to chose from, but have I missed anybody's favorite round tub? Does anyone have anything to say about any of the tubs on my list? Mr. Ed

Yes, I see that. I didn't express myself very well. Obviously it takes more power to heat a large volume of water to a given temperature than a small volume of water. However the volume of an object increases faster than the surface area. Since all round tubs will have about the same shape, I would think that the larger ones should be relatively more efficient. For instance, it should not require twice as much electricity to maintain the temperature of a 400 gallon tub than a 200 gallon tub. It might take, say, 20% more power. I want to get a tub that is big enough for me to be comfortable in, but I don't want to mortgage the farm to run it. Likewise, because of their compact shape, won't a round tub be a little bit more efficient than a square tub? We rarely lose power here, but I'd like to think that my tub and plumbing could hold out for a while without power at 30 below. Bigger is better, right?

This has been helpful. I've found four or five brands of round tubs with dealers in the area. From the specs on the web though, the tubs seem to run from 72" to 84" in diameter, 30" to 40" in height, and 220 gallons to 400 gallons in water capacity. Roger is right about it being cold here. I assume that heat loss is inversely related to water volume. Do bigger tubs retain heat better in cold weather? Are they cheaper to operate? Mr. Ed

I don't have a dog in this fight, as they say, but my sister and brother-in-law bought a Costco tub about five years ago. They live in northern Vermont. The instrument panel failed right away, but Costco replaced it no questions asked. Since then, the tub has just run and run. It gets used every day. My brother-in-law is technically pretty savvy though, and willing to experiment. He did his own installation and he added foam where he thought it need it and fiberglass around the skirt. He figures it costs about a dollar a day to run in the winter. He came up with another trick that will probably bother the pros: he puts a chlorine "hockey puck" in a tupperware container which he has drilled a few small holes in and tosses the container in the tub. It takes about a week and a half for the chlorine to disolve. Chlorine levels stay right where they belong. Saves a lot of money and by a strange molecular coincidence the density of the tupperware is such that when the chlorine tablet has completely disolved the container floats to the surface and washes into the filter-ready for a refill.

Near Sebeka-in the Finish Triangle. This is sauna county! By the way, that is "sow (female pig)-na" not "saw (toothed cutting instrument)-na". When I first got out here they were still speaking Finish on the street, but times are changing. I think hot tubs outnumber saunas these days. I just found the Rubadubtub on the web. It looks like a completely different breed of cat. It is lined with a plastic called PVDF. Does anyone have anything to tell me about this? I'm guessing it is a heavy vinyl. Is it any good? This tub also has what look like bench seats. Comfortable? The web site also promotes an insulated roll-up cover. Anyone have any experience with it? Mr. Ed

I am thinking lined and insullated. They do look cool, but I suspect that all-wood tubs require more care than I want to devote to a hot tub. However, one of the reasons I'm thinking round is the look. I live in an old farm house out in the country and I think a round tub would look good next to my old concrete stave silo. Heat retention is a major issue. We are in the USDA zone 2 finger that sticks down into northern Minnesota. Typical winter lows are 30 to 40 below (at least before global warming-this year we only got to 30 below twice). Every couple of years we hit 50 below, and, of course, we go weeks at a time where it never gets above zero. Lots of folks have regular square tubs around here, and they seem to do fine in the cold, but my wife has her heart set on round! Can you tell me any more about Great Northern? Mr. Ed

Thanks. I'll check Coleman. I'm still not coming up with many manufacturers of round tubs, and in at least one case one manufacturer seems to be making tubs which are sold under two different brand names-"Nordic" and "Northstar" tubs look identical. Is this common? Is there a difference in price or quality. Is it like Fords and Mercuries-different sheet metal, but the same underneath? Can anyone out there name a few more round tub manufacturers? Mr. Ed

Ok, I googled up Maax, saw some Coleman connections, but Maax seems to be an Australian outfit. I didn't find any US dealers or models-and no round ones. I didn't see any round Coleman products either.Am I missing something? I would really like to hear from someone who has done some serious soaking in a round tub to get their impressions. Mr. Ed

I would like to hear the skinny on round hot tubs. I'm considering getting a round tub for outdoor installation in Northern Minnesota. They appeal to me for several reasons: 1) structural simplicity, 2) depth and legroom (my wife and I are tall), 3) minimum surface area and small footprint (it gets cold here), and 4) social seating arrangement. These reasons are strictly theoretical-this will be my first tub. The only two brands of lined round tubs that I have discovered are Nordic and Great Northern. What are the pros and cons of these two brands, and are there others I should consider? Mr. Ed