noybman

I think my experience thus far matches your precisely, except I haven't even received a tub yet. I have 20+ years of computer and networking experience, and I too discussed the option of "doing it myself" if need be. They seemed to be ok with that as is in your case, but I wont know for real until we come to that pass. As far as your winters go vs. mine, I am still a bit worried, but to be honest, I'd be worried no matter what the brand, Hey, water freezes lol. I will report my experience. Im very skeptical the delivery will go smoothly, but it can, they can drive that 52' truck right up in the yard... I wonder if they'll be able to drive it back out. Thank you for your description. 1 year into it and its fading and warping, and you are not in the coldest up north area as I am. Perhaps this will work out to be a good starter tub. Stay tuned.

The lower density foam makes good insulation also. They just need more of it don't you think? Yes I do. I have no idea what to expect cost wise in winter months but Im sure to find out... and will happily (or painfully) share

I noted their insulation is a soft impressionable type (vs. a solid rigid type once hardened). Is this a good thing?

First, thanks for the reply. I have seen much of the feel for spa's in general here go towards "get what you like" first and foremost. And ofc, with master, buyer be on your own. I do think you can get to the top selling a sham product, think about that, what is in the KFC meat, McD's chicken tenders, etc lol... you dont want to know, but they are rich indeed! Anyhow, I've read a lot of the posts here, certainly not all, and I was hoping someone(s) could tell me that "oh, Master jets are really bad", or "the shells crack in winter" etc. I'll be honest, I hope that during the warranty Master actually provides me with parts if I need them. I hope after the warranty I can get parts if I need them. (it might be wise to consider the most likely candidates and grab a spare before they become obsolete), or the company flops or changes names, etc. (ugh).

They sell a lot of them here in Minnesota. The MPLS St Paul area has a bunch of stores and they are very popular. Not because of their design, function or energy efficiency. Because they are less money than most of the higher quality brands. They are considered a middle of the road brand. Your not asking for peoples or tech's experience so my opinion won't mean anything to you. Your asking for a comprehensive analysis of the differences and I can't do that for you. I have worked on a bunch of them and a bunch of other brands and you are right. There is a big difference between PVC, jets, pumps, heaters and all components used in one brand versus the other. I think Master makes a fine middle of the pack tub if that's what you are looking for. However if you want high end and energy efficient. Pick a different brand. Actually, I am asking for tech & others peoples experience. You are right, Im looking for as much as I can get, but opinions based on experience are certainly welcome. I made the comment that "... all brands will fail ..." (its a fact of life). With that said, support of a product for 10/7/5 years is a need. I cant be silly enough to ignore that. but when it comes to energy efficiency I am appalled by their choice to "just run a circ pump 24/7". On the plus side, at least its simple! haha. Do Master Spa's shells crack sooner than their counterparts? Is cold weather less kind to master than to brand 'x'? These are certainly area's I assume people can talk to. thanks for the reply and keeping the flame low.

I really understand the overwhelming warning about service of the warranty; now mind you, where I live, there's really no one for miles (does someone want to open a store here? haha). But that said, I generally fix my own stuff anyways. I would much rather take advantage of a warranty but given the fact that service of anything I buy has its complications, I am going back to the point I posted - I do not care about the name brand, or the humans forthwith or behind the scenes, or the moral behind the company name. I want to know from the experienced people here, especially those with first hand knowledge of RECENT designs and manufacturing "quality" how does Master measure up? Please provide your apples to apples comparison. Now, to answer the q above about the price, I actually like the design, layout, and fit of the Master twilight more-so than what was offered by many others. I like the jet design, I like the foot massage design, but justifications aside for why I like what they did, I want people to refute, compare, and speak to the only things that really matter.... Jet design (endurance, function, fit, performance) vs. competitor 'x' Shell (thickness, material, life expectancy, warranty, weathering) vs. 'x' Electrical Controls " ... " Pumps (and circ/economy modes) "..." Heater (lifespan, function, etc) "..." Filter cost "..." Insulation... vs. 'x' Maintenance (true cost to own) "..." seals, pvc piping, lighting seals (poor/sloppy cuts, to much to little sealant etc) ease of accessing foamed areas vs. competitors 'x' for servicing "..." framing quality etc.. At the end of the day, these are the things that drive the need for a repair call, and since a hot tub has many mechanical parts, and operates in temperature extremes, they will all fail regardless of the name behind it.

So, at our states fair, "The Big E" (Eastern States Exposition) - The New England fair - Jaccuzzi + Sundance (Jelly Belly), Master Spa (not an expo, just themselves), and some other brand MAAX SPA's were all there with a few tubs running and each had a tent with ~20 tubs on display. All three wanted to ask withing 30 seconds, "...how much are you looking to spend and are you looking to buy today..."; well at least they were up front huh? Ha. Let me tell you, my wife and I have looked at these shows for over 10 years, We have talked about buying one for a very long time. Over these years we have seen the price of tubs steadily climb. Ten years ago 3-6k was the generic range. This year 6-9k was the generic range. Now what I dont get is why these things are so expensive (I mean this in gest). it is a tub, with holes drilled in it, and tubing attached to the holes through a pump and a heating and a filter unit. thats about it. not much more to it. You put water in it, maintain it, and it will serve its useful life - or will it? I work as an engineer. I view this as a luxury and keep that in mind when considering a purchase. I get that it mainly comes down to material material material (and quality therein); qualiy in materials, in company support, and overall design. After looking at the Master Spa's (and window shopping for 10 years), I dont see why people hate Master so much on this forum (strictly from a design perspective). I look at the guts of all the brands I have seen over the years and the guts of the Master. To be honest, I dislike them all. With respect to the Master, they weld their frame and powder coat it. The shell is no thicker or thinner than competitor 'x', their jets are a fair solid design when compared to most every other style I have seen. They have pumps, an as a mechanical component, its going to die some day (preferrably more than 5 years of use). They run a circulator 24/7 (yuck) but this is a hot tub, and is expected to sit in freezing weather. Now all that said, they do have a warranty, and in researching it, and talking to people, they do resolve most complaints. Now we talk price, their sales persons were a joke. I was astonsihed, but when we talk $, they inflate their starting price, then drop it down to make it sound good - in the end, its as fair of a price as anyone else is charging in fact, I did get a slight deal. My tub is being "factory built" and delivered. I need to finalize my 3 day commitment and swallow the decision. So all this said, and flame retardent gear in hand - speaking only to the item in hand, not the sales people or dirty tricks used to get a consumers money, why (factually in current like kind design) is this product less quality than caldera, jacuzzzi, sundance, etc? Shoot--> &(thank you)