Spanky

One additional comment; Using Dichlor to shock or oxidize a bromine tub is not wise IMHO. Dichlor, as we all know, adds CYA which has absolutely NO function in a Bromine Spa. Bromine has one of the shortest intervals between water changes, mostly due to the build up of binders found in the tablets. The unnecessary addition of CYA would only serve to shorten the interval even more. Apollo217, I'm glad you've joined this fourm and are asking questions. This will help you gain a better understanding of the procedures required in the various methods of maintaning spas, which in turn will enable you to better serve your customers. Remember that your customers are relying on you for guidance.

Use of dichlor only is also an incorrect procedure. Once the CYA reaches 30ppm then you have to switch to liquid chlorine (Bleach or pool chlorine) otherwise the CYA will continue to rise. Remember that a Hot tub is NOT a swimming pool!!! The lower water volume will result in CYA climbing very rapidly. the only option will be to drain the tub. Both methods, 3 part Bromine and Dichlor/Bleach are well documented in this fourm. http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23090 http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=30249

150 does seem high but if your pH is stable then don't worry about it. It's more common to see spas stabilize at TA of 60-80 but clearly every situation is different

I've found, in my limited experience, that raising the pH of a hot tub requires a bit of careful thought. You have to look at the TA before you decide what action to take. Other than addition of acid, I've found that there are basically 2 scenarios that result in low pH. The first is inactivity, where the net acidity of the sanitizer has not been counteracted by outgassing of normal aeration (vacation for example). In this case the TA will usually be somewhat normal (above 50ppm) The solution, as stated in the above posts, is simply to aerate. The second scenareo is when the TA drops too far (usually below 40ppm). In this case simply add enough Baking Soda to raise the TA Back to 60, or whatever you find is normal for your spa, then areate. 50ppm Borates also helps keep pH in balance I've honestly never found any need for such things as pH up (Washing Soda). If your TA is high, the pH will usually tend to rise. In that case (above 7.8) carefully add acid then aerate to restore pH and lower TA. The "trick" is to allow the tub to find it's own equilibrium. Once you find it you'll find that the tub will stay there for several weeks, if not longer. For me this seems to happen @ TA: 50ppm, pH: 7.6 and 50ppm Borates.

Borax is a worthwhile addition to any spa. It helps buffer pH and seems to make the water feel softer. Here are the instructions. http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=36430

Pool chlorine (12%) and bleach(6%) are the same thing. Just higher strength. You still need to establish a CYA of about 30ppm. otherwise the chlorine will be too strong. Once you have the proper CYA level then use the "Pool" chlorine, Just remember that it is double the strength of grocery store bleach so you dose accordingly. Bulk chlorine is indeed cheaper than bleach, I use it but I also have a swimming pool. If you're only using it for a spa there may not be that much of a saving. You have to consider how much you're buying vs how much you use. In my case the local pool supply sells 20L (about 5 Gallons) for $11.00 but there is no way my hot tub would ever need that much. Remember that liquid chlorine has a limited shelf life

Over time the TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) of the water will continue to rise. Bromine tablets, for example, contain binders which remain in the water after the tab dissolves. Other sources include oxidized wastes, salts and other impurities from routine chemical additions. Filters do a reasonable job of keeping the water clear but they are not 100%. There are claims that using a SWCG will extent the life span of the water, due to the fact that they require less chemical addition, but you still have a slow build up of oxidized wastes. Regular water changes are the best way to keep your tub running trouble free.

3-step bromine is actually quite simple. Here's basically what you will need 1) Sodium Bromide - required to create a "Bromide Bank" (available at pool/spa dealers but if you have difficulty finding some, I've had success using a product from RONA which I'll tell you about) 2) Bromine Tablets - available just about everywhere, including Pool/spa stores, Home Depot, Rona, Canadian Tire, Walmart.... 3) Bleach (Chlorox Ultra) laundry isle of any grocery store. DO NOT substitute with any "No name" or "specialty" bleach use only name brand Chlorox Ultra. 4) Baking soda - I buy mine at the local "Bulk Barn" 5) 20 Mule Team Borax - Again found in the laundry isle of any grocery store. 6) Acid - in this case you have 2 choices, Dry Acid (usually called pH minus) is found in pool supply stores, HD, Rona, CT , Walmart... It's a dry powder that's easily measured. The second choice is Muriatic Acid, found at Rona, HD, CT or almost any hardware store. This is very effective in lowering pH but requires careful handling (it's dangerous stuff if handled incorrectly) 7) Calcium Increase - If you live in the GTA the CH of the tap water is about 100. You want to increase it to about 150. You'll only need a few ounces. 8) TSP - Tri-Sodium-Phosphate, used to clean your filters, available at HD, Canadian Tire (usually in the Paint department) Once you find out what you're inheriting from the previous owners, we'll guide you in the right direction.

I agree with spatech on the lounger. It's a feature that my wife was quite insistant upon when we were looking for a tub. The truth is it's rarely if ever used and yes unless you want to wear a "Diving Belt" the're next to impossible to stay in

Sure am, located in GTA. I'm in Brampton There's several Canadians on this fourm and we can help you with locating Canadian sources of things you may need. One thing you will need is a proper test kit (Taylor K-2106 if you're going to use bromine) The only Canadian source is Apollo in Monteral. Yes the price of the kit is outrageous, but it will save you a ton of grief and ultimately money in the long run. http://piscines-apollo.com/cubecart/test-kits/k-2106.html

You mentioned costco.ca, are you a fellow Canadian?? Remember that everyone on this fourm is here to help. Just ask!!!

Looking at the 2nd photo, the pumps are obviously working so you're well on your way. Covers are easilly replaced. I know after just purchasing a house, money can be a bit tight, but if everything checks out and you plan to keep the tub, it would be wise to replace the cover. As for the skirt, you'd be surprised at what a bit of elbow grease and a gallon of stain can do. In the meantime read up on water care and decide what method you're planning to use. I personally suggest you start with Waterbear's 3 step Bromine.

Can't identify the spa but the topside control looks like it may be a GECKO. The nameplate has been customized to the manufacturer's spec (quite common) The good news is, if it is a GECKO parts are readilly available.

This debate can obviously rage on forever, so I’m going to jump in with what I’ll call “Facts” and “Realities” Let’s start with Ozone FACTS Ozone is a highly effective sanitizer for water (commonly used in the purification of bottled water) Ozone has the ability to oxidize Bromide to active Bromine (Only applicable to a Bromine Spa) REALITIES The average CD unit generates roughly 30 -50 mg/hr. That measurement applies to the concentration inside the generator, NOT what reaches in the water. First of all the ozone must travel along a plastic tube. Remember that ozone will essentially oxidize anything it comes in contact with, so the first loss (a substantial one) is found there. That’s why the first few feet of tubing has to be regularly replaced. Next the remaining ozone is injected into the water stream. The longer the ozone is contained in the water the better the chances it has of doing it’s intended job. The reality is that that even in the best designed tub, this is only a few seconds, at best. On the positive side, ozone is such a powerful oxidizer that there is no doubt that at least some amount of oxidization took place but nowhere near the amount that marketing would like you to believe. In a nutshell that’s why we have a debate. It’s not whether or not ozone does anything, it’s more about does it do enough to justify the expense . Moving on to UV lamps FACTS UV (UV-C) is proven to be effective in destroying bacteria in water (commonly used in municipal water treatment systems) REALITIES The killing power of VU-C is a combination of energy level (power output) and dwell time. Given that the average spa circulation pump pushes water at 10 -15 GPM, the dwell time within an inline UV chamber would be in the realm of milliseconds. The power output of these lamps is less than 20W total; therefore I personally have difficulty believing that these units would be capable of killing anything. In contrast water treatment plants use multiple banks of mercury vapour lamps in the range of 1000W/inch which requires several hundred amps @ 600V to operate. A far cry from the units found in a spa.

Jeffinpickering: I'm presuming, by your name, that you live in Pickering. Not sure if you know this, but scumbugs are available at Canadian Tire. http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/2/OutdoorLiving/PoolsAccessories/PoolChemicalslAccessories/PRDOVR~0813324P/Scumbug.jsp?locale=en#tab_page_reviews_li

I vouch for the Scumbug. Like Waterbear, I've never used a Zorbie. I used to think I was wasting my money until my daughter came to visit with some of her friends. I don't know what sort of make-up, lotions etc.. those girls were wearing but the next day the center of my normally white scumbug was a yellow/brown color!! So yes I can vouch that it works!

Invest $10.00 in a "Scumbug". I used to think I was wasting my money, untill my Daughter came to visit with 4 friends. I don't know what sort of make-up and lotion those girls had all over them but the next day the center of my normally white scumbug was yellow/brown.

Don't know for sure about your model, but a circulation pump normally runs constantly. Did you check the output with a voltmeter? Simply swapping with the ozonator leads doesn't tell you much because if your board is like mine the ozonator is controlled by the board to turn on & off usually every half hour (or whatever is set by the low level programming), so it may be quite normal for there to be NO voltage at the ozone circuit. For the circ pump, there is most likely a fuse somwhere on the board. I'd start there

Replacement for what??? Falling of the back of a truck??? :ph34r: Sounds a bit fishy to me

I doubt you'd be able to sell a spa in Canada that wasn't fully insulated. Maybe the U.S. market is different. Perhaps the manufacturers are thinking that in some of the "warmer" states it's not necessary but is it not also true that many of these states have rather high Hydro rates? It's most likely a marketing ploy to show a lower "Sticker Price" but at the end of the day they know customers will opt for the added cost

The Del MCD-50 is rated for 5yrs. continuous use and has a replaceable chip.

The debate over the value of Ozone in a residential spa is always an interesting one. There are valid points on both sides. The fact is, most tubs today are either shipped with an ozonator or are "Ozone Ready". In my situation, (High use Bromine) I believe there is some benifit but the unit was "included" with the tub. Most CD units have a life expectancy of about 2 years in continuous use. When mine burned out I replaced it with an aftermarket DEL unit for about $80 which also has the advantage of replaceable CD chips. So in answer to the question Should I pay extra?, I'd say NO but if they happen to throw it in, that's a different story.

Not sure how to respond to this question, but here goes I have a 24 hr circulation pump so that's not an issue, But with a circ pump the main pumps are also idle , except fo a "Purge" cycle but that is no different than a "Filter" cycle on a non recirc system. As long as the tub has hydro and the heater working, the water temperature in the pump housings should stay above freezing. Without a recirc pump you need to run a periodic "Filter Cycle" with the main pump. This will guarantee the water will not freeze inside the pump or plumbing

I believe that the 24hr circulation pump provided some aeration plus my spa is programmed to run a "Purge" cycle every 8hrs. The purge cycle turns the main pumps on for a about 5 mins so this provided the aeration. The air valves were also left in the "Open" position so when the pumps started there was air intake. My main concern was to avoid low pH. Chem Geek is clearly correct in that the net acidity of the bromine is more of a concern than the floater running out of tabs. That's why I raised the TA and left the air valves open. I added 3 oz of baking soda before I left, and checking the pool calculator, my starting TA may have been closer to 80 not 90 (sorry my miscalculation)

**Follow-Up** I've just returned from 2 weeks vacation and am happy to report that everything went well with the spa. My normal running specs: Ch: 150 TA: 50 pH: 7.6 Br: 3.5 Borates : 50ppm Temp: 100-101 Preparation: 1) Fill Floater to max with tabs. 2) Reset floater to 1/2 normal opening. 3) Add 2nd floater also set to 1/2 (Based on the dissolve rate of your tabs this may not be necessary but for $15.00 I find it cheap "Piece of Mind" insurance) 4) Raise TA to 90-100 with baking soda. 5) Lower Temp to 80 deg Results after 2 weeks vacation: Br: 4.5 ( Yes it did rise ) pH: 7.4 (Slightly lower but still within acceptable range) TA: 60 (This confirms the net acidity of the bromine and the need to increase TA before starting) Both floaters had approximately 50% tabs left. pH did not rise, (most likely due to lack of areation), but TA did drop 30ppm It would be interesting to hear what what results others have after vacation.