Wizzardofspas

sorry you got hooked up with this lil gem. you can see in my past statements my thoughts on this system. it sucks. You are reduced to what three square feet of filtrationj surface? If you ever get the socks to stay put the pump is going to suck the bottom right out of them, if you use the spa and do not clean all 3 filterts every daqy, total joke get some leated filters to take thier place , ya right they made the threads too big you are stuck my friend. LA spas "used" to be good. now they suck. they really suck. former LA dealer tech. I'm just the messanger.

sorry you got hooked up with this lil gem. you can see in my past statements my thoughts on this system. it sucks. You are reduced to what three square feet of filtrationj surface? If you ever get the socks to stay put the pump is going to suck the bottom right out of them, if you use the spa and do not clean all 3 filterts every daqy, total joke get some leated filters to take thier place , ya right they made the threads too bid, you are stuch my friend

This is a pearl tub and I think there maybe some developing at the jets as the fiberglass is curved. So do you believe it would be of less of a burden to have them repaired or seek for a new spa I concur with Pathfinder, demand a new tub. Thanks Guys, I will see where it goes with Demension 1. Wish me me luck, from all of the postings on this forum it does not look like Spa manufactures or too open to negotiations. We will see about Demension 1. If the spa is under warranty demand a new tub,... However blisters can be repaired, it is time consuming , costly and hard to do, requires a skilled persone that has done this for some time, very expensive to repair, , grinding out the blister filling the hole , many layers, wet sanding , color matching, clear coats, ect very hard to do. The blister will not compromise the fiberglass; however it will cobalt, and look bad forever. Colbalting = black resin ooze melting down the side of your spa.

Check to see that you actually have 220 voltage at the spa. could be that your service disconnect has two fuses ,and one of them has blown, line one a great many tubs require 220 for the heater only, the rest of the equip is 110 volts the tub will look like it's working "all 110 volt items" yet no 220 volt heat. happens every day.

From the service side of things. for whatever unknown reason, the temp sensor seems to raise hell with the motherboard, sounds like the top-side is working fine to me, if all the pumps, light blower, ect., work it has to be a temp sensor. Sundance- most common brain scrambler =temp sensor let me know how it works out, temp sensor is easy to test, and every good service center has one in stock for this very reason. It's not the topside believe me. PS do not let them sell you a new board, the chip can be swaped out, this is what you get for not going with Balboa! lol!

I can't hold it in any longer! Hot Springs is the absolute worst hot-tub ever made. I would never own one or give one to a friend. I'ts all propritary equip installed into the worst foam enginerrs ever created, with little tubes everywhere, hard to work on, only can get parts through "Hot springs" requires ten wires on three breakers, are you kidding me? Give me a break. From a service techs point of view it's the absolute worst thing going, rock bottom. Everytime I get a Hot springs service call I cringe no BS. why not have the owner clean 65 freaking filters, sure great idea. You have to hold the door up with your head to look at the equip and poke a screwdriver into the interlock to see it work. good grief. Hot springs is a total joke and the worst thing on the market end of story. nothing beats a Hot-springs at being lame. forgive me people I just could not hold it in any longer. I refuse to work on any "Hot springs that has any sort of plumbing leak. I have lost too much flesh and blood digging out the rock they call foam. Worst thing ever built. That is my final answer. Never, never , never purchaqse a hotsprings spa. it is the worst nighmare on the market. end of story. I ask any serious tech to denigh it? What a can of worms! Hot-springs does not even belong in the hot-tub catagory. it's a circus desguised as a hot-tub. good grief. ask any tech if they enjoy working on this junk. poin made

This is a common problem with this style of jets. There is not much material making up the particular part of the jet that keeps it locked in posistion to begin with. Low PH eats away what little plastic there is in no time, if water is not kept in balance. You can probably scrape away the surface plastic with your fingernail. Normally the PH will fall when you use the tub. I find it odd that you have to lower the PH with chemicals. Water should be changed every three months. At 3 months you have added so much calcium to the water it acts like sand paper on the parts. (Calcium is a common filler ingreadient used to cary your sanitizer bromine chlorine ect.) bromine in it's natural state is a gas. it requires a (binder) to be handled. I recomend also that you use all products from one manufacturer. If Guard-x for example use all Guard-x. Don't mix, as some binders may not be compatable, never use any products containing Hydrogen Peroxide, IE. Baqua spa. Baqua requires special replacement parts, not ever mentioned, to the consumer. Baqua eats up plastic fast. Alkilinity should require adjustment more frequently than PH. Alkilinity increaser should not affect your PH, some alk increasers do both. read your label. It is more important to keep the PH correct than the alkilinity. High PH will leave deposits, (Sand Paper) on parts exposed to the water. Low PH will eat the same parts away. PH= Power of Hydrogen. H2O ratio. If the water is low on Hydrogen. it will take it from whatever it has contact with. I hope this helps, and look forward to any comments, or additions. A few clarifications. Alkalinity increaser is sodium bicarbonate, it will increae TA and slighly increase pH. High pH can lead to scaling because it causes calcium carbonate to preicipitate out but only if calcium harndess and total alkalinity (carbonate hardness) is also high. Low pH means more hydrogen ions than hydronioum ions so your explanation is not really correct about how low pH affects plastic. What is usually does is leach plasticizers out of the plastic, manking it brittle--much in the same way it effects vinyl pool liners. Thank you Wizard for the reply. Some of the information you provided however is precisely why I'm confused. For instance, I know that low pH will eat away at plastic-- but I have NEVER had low pH-- it's always high. So it seems like something else is eating the plastic. Also, I don't add sanitizer products with fillers-- only the Genesis Tru-Blu (98% sodium bromide) after a water change to establish a bromine bank for the generator. I assume that the first step would be to balance my water, but what other than sodium bicarb can I use to raise the alkalinity without raising pH? Any recommendations? Waterbear outlined in a previous post a treatment to bring both TA and pH up together with bicarb and then bring them down slowly with predissolved sodium bisulfate, which I am in the process of trying. You also mention that this is a common problem with these jets, but I have searched all over the internet for solutions to this problem but couldn't find others with the same problem. Has anyone else solved this problem another way? Thanks again You mention above that you do not use any fillers, (binders) "Sodium" is the filler, (binder) it is the product used to hold the Bromine (Gas). If your tub looks like a alkaseltser, foaming white water when you turn on the jets, you need to change the water, you have too much Sodium in the water, grinding down your parts. Sodium bromide adds both sodium ions and bromine ions to the water. The sodium is NOT a filler but an intregal part of the chemical. Also, bromine is not a gas but a liquid in elemental state at normal temperatures but we are not dealing with elemental bromine in a spa, we are dealing with hypobromous acid and with sodium bromide, which is an intregal part of bromine sanitation whether done with a generator or with a conventional 2 steop or 3 step bromine system. Ions in the water will NOT 'grind down your parts' since they are dissolved in the water and are not particulate matter. It is chlorine that is a gas in it's natural state, not bromine, oops! I'll be back to pick your brain soon; no time just now. lunch break. I see I gave you upside down info on PH as well, the higher the PH the less hydrogen concentration in the water. I do want to discuss this issue about sodium further. Thanks guys for the clairifications and corrections! see ya soon, Soon as I get My wizzard hat back from the cleaners!

Sundance Error code, 4 dashes = Watchdog mode. Replace the temp sensor.

Power it up with the thermostat turned down, see if the pumps will turn over, (come on) they may be frozen up if the spa sat unused that long; only let them run for a few secconds without water in the tub.

This is a common problem with this style of jets. There is not much material making up the particular part of the jet that keeps it locked in posistion to begin with. Low PH eats away what little plastic there is in no time, if water is not kept in balance. You can probably scrape away the surface plastic with your fingernail. Normally the PH will fall when you use the tub. I find it odd that you have to lower the PH with chemicals. Water should be changed every three months. At 3 months you have added so much calcium to the water it acts like sand paper on the parts. (Calcium is a common filler ingreadient used to cary your sanitizer bromine chlorine ect.) bromine in it's natural state is a gas. it requires a (binder) to be handled. I recomend also that you use all products from one manufacturer. If Guard-x for example use all Guard-x. Don't mix, as some binders may not be compatable, never use any products containing Hydrogen Peroxide, IE. Baqua spa. Baqua requires special replacement parts, not ever mentioned, to the consumer. Baqua eats up plastic fast. Alkilinity should require adjustment more frequently than PH. Alkilinity increaser should not affect your PH, some alk increasers do both. read your label. It is more important to keep the PH correct than the alkilinity. High PH will leave deposits, (Sand Paper) on parts exposed to the water. Low PH will eat the same parts away. PH= Power of Hydrogen. H2O ratio. If the water is low on Hydrogen. it will take it from whatever it has contact with. I hope this helps, and look forward to any comments, or additions. Thank you Wizard for the reply. Some of the information you provided however is precisely why I'm confused. For instance, I know that low pH will eat away at plastic-- but I have NEVER had low pH-- it's always high. So it seems like something else is eating the plastic. Also, I don't add sanitizer products with fillers-- only the Genesis Tru-Blu (98% sodium bromide) after a water change to establish a bromine bank for the generator. I assume that the first step would be to balance my water, but what other than sodium bicarb can I use to raise the alkalinity without raising pH? Any recommendations? Waterbear outlined in a previous post a treatment to bring both TA and pH up together with bicarb and then bring them down slowly with predissolved sodium bisulfate, which I am in the process of trying. You also mention that this is a common problem with these jets, but I have searched all over the internet for solutions to this problem but couldn't find others with the same problem. Has anyone else solved this problem another way? Thanks again You mention above that you do not use any fillers, (binders) "Sodium" is the filler, (binder) it is the product used to hold the Bromine (Gas). If your tub looks like a alkaseltser, foaming white water when you turn on the jets, you need to change the water, you have too much Sodium in the water, grinding down your parts.

If the transformer is built onto the board and is obviously bad, yes it can be replaced. My Question is, how many other componets are also bad, that are not obvious? What if you were able to come up with a transformer replaced it and still nothing worked? Ouch, what a waste of time hu? been there done that, Did you say Hot-Springs, put it in the yard sale and get rid of it. I'll give you 20 bucs for it as is. Serious, is it just old? Do you have water leaking onto it? Do you have other problems, leaks in the equipment area. Is this a bucket-O-Rust? What are we working with here? Is the rest of the board pristine, or, are there hot spots near pump 1, and the heater relays? I can get you a board if you need one. Hey good idea. I can get, all you guys anything, wow never thought of that. Yes I can hook you up. I rebuild boards frequently, relays, and chips most often; Transformers?... very rarly; board is usually toast by then. If it's a good tub, in good shape, get a new board, ; after install, have an amp draw, spike test done on your pumps. If your pumps are spiking over 50 amps consider replacing them. They will burn up the relays on your board. A burnt transformer means the board is drawing more than the transformer is capable of handeling, poor designe. This is only my personal opinion, based on experience. The same applies to any form of electronics, tvs computers, stereos ect. I also repair and service all of the above, It's what got me into the pool and spa world. Check this out, They want you to run 6 gage wire to your spa for example, yet the relays on the board that handel the very same load are micro small. little tiny points in line after # 6 gage wire. Oh ya. ever wonder why so many boards catch fire? To me it's a total joke. look at an old school spa, with a real heater contactor, now that can handel the amp draw. Back in the day, I worked on hot tubs that were wood fired; serious, those never shorted out, lol. Time is money, get a new board. Google, Norvac Electronics, look up the transformer.

First question to ask is, who will be at my house to do any warranty work; what is thier phone number and where are they located? end of story. PS don't get too fancy, more gadgets mean more problems. everybody hates lounges. fiber optics burried in foam, very clever idea. Oh and a big fat stereo, that makes lot's of sense. why not get a topside with 40 diff filtration settings, and a clock that has to be reprogramed everytime the power is shut off. be sure to go full foam it will make your heart sing the first time you get a plumbing leak. All tubs eventually get plumbing leaks. Filtration one set on, filtration set off, ok filtration 2 set on, filtration set 2 off, ect, pusk up button for 4 secconds then hold light for three secconds, give me a break, that is sadistic to do to old wealthy people that can't even work a TV remote. very clever, get some misters while you are at it keeps me busy. get one with Jet engins a porch swing, and a cuiszine art. I fix it all. Jucuzzi is a solid tub, however a great deal of the parts are only avalible through Jucuzzi. You are at thier mercy. Clear water I believe uses more standard industry parts. can be obtained from many dealers. hope I helped.

The surface under the spa must be level before adding water. What do you have the spa sitting on now? What model spa do you have? Some can not be shimmed. It is not an easy task to shim a spa. If it is not even you can get stresses which will crack the shell. This is so very important what he is saying here. To shim a tub you should consider building a frame work, that makes contact with all contact areas of the spa. when you fill that tub with Hot water it will conform to it's base. you put cinder blocks under the four coners you will destroy your tub. "Flat, solid, level, surface". Otherwise say hello to cracks in the shell, sepperation of shell from cabinet ect. If it's only 2 inches or less, put the skimmer on the down hill side, and don't worry about it.

Run the 6/4, then you can power most any Hot-tub you choose, except a Hotsprings which may require who knowes how many wires. Some Hot-springs require more than one breaker. most tubs are 4 wire. 2 Hots, line 0ne, line 2, a netural, and a ground. If you end up with a three wire, 220 v pumps, and 220 v blower, ozinator, then you don't use the netural. See it all the time. Do I trust it on a GFCI with a Netural wire? Answer is no. It may be safe, and even to code, however I still don't like it. In the old days before GFCIs I would run into tubs that would test 120v from the water in the tub to ground. That is certain death. I want 4 wires on my tub with the GFCI thank you. Would love to hear from other techs, about getting shocked by tub water.

Jim is thanking you for the photos since he then took them to his tightly controlled, propagandist "forum" and is using them to 'talk smack' about your tub. What a tool. He said tool, lol

This is a common problem with this style of jets. There is not much material making up the particular part of the jet that keeps it locked in posistion to begin with. Low PH eats away what little plastic there is in no time, if water is not kept in balance. You can probably scrape away the surface plastic with your fingernail. Normally the PH will fall when you use the tub. I find it odd that you have to lower the PH with chemicals. Water should be changed every three months. At 3 months you have added so much calcium to the water it acts like sand paper on the parts. (Calcium is a common filler ingreadient used to cary your sanitizer bromine chlorine ect.) bromine in it's natural state is a gas. it requires a (binder) to be handled. I recomend also that you use all products from one manufacturer. If Guard-x for example use all Guard-x. Don't mix, as some binders may not be compatable, never use any products containing Hydrogen Peroxide, IE. Baqua spa. Baqua requires special replacement parts, not ever mentioned, to the consumer. Baqua eats up plastic fast. Alkilinity should require adjustment more frequently than PH. Alkilinity increaser should not affect your PH, some alk increasers do both. read your label. It is more important to keep the PH correct than the alkilinity. High PH will leave deposits, (Sand Paper) on parts exposed to the water. Low PH will eat the same parts away. PH= Power of Hydrogen. H2O ratio. If the water is low on Hydrogen. it will take it from whatever it has contact with. I hope this helps, and look forward to any comments, or additions.

You can clean it every day if you want to. It really depends on "bather load", how many people are using the tub? 2 people, 4 or 5 nights a week; rince it out every two to three weeks. Family of 9 rince it once a week. The filter should be degreased every 3 months when you change the water out. Some people like to soak thier filter. I prefer to use a spray. I pull the filter, spray it with degreaser and let it set, while I drain, clean, and refill the spa. When the spa is full, I rince the filter and stick it back in. I had a customer who kept a spare filter in a "soaking bucket". I had to clean his spa a few times. Orders were to take the soaking filter out of the bucket, clean it, and exchange it with the filter in the spa. Then put the pulled filter to soak in the bucket untill next time. That bucket of snot was one of the most disgusting things I have ever dealt with. I never opend that bucket but one time. however he always had a clean filter after I left. lol

Hot-tubs that are inclosed in gazebos tend to hold up and last longer than tubs left exposed. The sun and the rain wear tubs down fast, especially if negelected.

Out here in The pacific north west, we get 6 to 8 degrees an hour, we obviously have better electricty, lol; that's on a 6k heater of course. Have you techs noticed 6k elements, seem to burn up heater relays on boards? I'm only installing 4K elements as replacements in electronic pacs, any thoughts on this?

Who makes the best Spa?... I do!

The key word is "complete"! You can order the parts sepperate, or you can order the wet-end complete!

Hmmmm? Is this only a bad motor after all? I just replaced a 56 frame motor yesterday, it was running on both speeds at once. Customer complaint was (loud motor)! I tested hot on all 3 lines. A motor that turns freely, hums on low, starts on high, drops to low and runs fine, has a bad capicator, simple fix. It seems very odd your dealer is willing to risk burning up motors if there is a known issue with the electronics. I sure would like to know what electronics you have in this thing, so I can call, and chat with one of the techs.

You know the saying, A squeekey wheel gets greesed? Contact the dealer, and manufacturer everyday, checking the status on service, get your tail into the showroom, and voice your concerns a tad bit on the loud side. Make sure other customers can hear you, without apearing like too much like an "ASS". Demand the Spa be returned and refunded if Warranty Service cannot be performed in a reasonable amount of time,(One Month) no excuse after that. Document the unfinished work, (Take Pictures) of any obvious damage, loose parts, left over mess, ect. take them to the dealer, so he can see your documentation. Call your homeowners insurance company? Cunsult an attourney? If they cant fix it have them pick it up, and get your money back. I have seen some of these things get results in the past. It is not uncommon for a tub to be exchanged for a new one. I once was sent on a Warranty Service Call, (Leak) brand new tub. The tub had as I counted 60 leaks, connections were all made with no PVC cement it turned out. hard to believe hu? " We wet test every unit" ya right! The owner ended up getting an upgraded tub, bath robes, and wine glasses. some people have all the luck! I hope yours will change! let us know what happens!

Is this Pac actually a duel sensor manifold? OH on a cold tub of water is very common on tubs incorperating a pressure switch. Many Balboa systems use this. This is what happens when a pressure switch sticks in the closed posistion. The tub heats up as normal, reaches the set point, the pump shuts off, and the heater remains on; boiling the water out of the heater manifold. The High-limit is triggerd, OH condition occurs and the temp drops untill the tub is reset at the main breaker. A simple test for this is to start the tub heating as normal and disable the primary pump, (un-plug) You will hear a distinct boiling noise in the heater manifold if the P. switch is closed. This test does require a bit of skill; you have to be very fast at pluging, and unpluging the pump when it's hot, or you risk burning up the pins on the on the end of the cord.