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Everything posted by waterbear

  1. If it's the or-ring between the pump and the wet end (where the skimmer basket is) it's a SAND FILTER PUMP MOTOR INLET O-RING2 part # 114571. There is a parts diagram in the manual for the pump/filter combo but if you don't have the manual here is a link to it. https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/C1XRD26zxLS.pdf Intex parts usually have to be ordered from Intex directly: INTEX RECREATION CORP. 1665 Hughes Way, Long Beach, CA 90810 1-800-234-6839 (310) 549-2900 : www.intexcorp.com (U.S./CANADA ONLY)
  2. Ph = 7.6, 7.6 perfect Free Chlorine = 6.0, 3.04 Maintain at 4 to 6 ppm, if you add 50 ppm borate then you can maintain at 3 to 5 ppm Combined Chlorine = 0.5, .36 perfect, IF CC is above .5 ppm you need to shock, either use bleach or your cell Total alkalinity = 70, 68 good for a salt system. Keep it between 50 to 70 ppm. Calcium hardness = 240, 222 good for fiberglass IMHO. There are those that say you don't need to worry about CH with a fiberglass pool but there is some empirical evidence that CH of 200 or higher does help prevent iron stains and cobalt spotting, which fiberglass is prone to. You want to avoid high CH because it can cause both scale deposits which are very difficult to remove from fiberglass without causing damage AND because calcium deposits in your salt cell will necessitate acid washing the cell and can shorten its lifespan. FWIW, My T-15 cell was installed in 2005 and is still working (average life span is 3 to 5 years) and my pool is open year round since I am in Florida. CYA = below the lowest Taylor range of 30, 2 THIS SHOULD BE 80 PPM! GET IT UP THERE ASAP AND ADJUST YOUR PERCENTAGE DOWN TO MAINTAIN FC AT 4 TO 6 PPM. No or low CYA WILL shorten cell life and will also possibly necessitate needing to shock to maintain CC at or below .5 ppm. Saturation index = 0.05, 0.1 This is excellent. Personally, I like to run a slightly negative saturation index in a fiberglass pool with a salt system to minimizes calcium deposits in the cell. Additional store results are: zero for copper, iron, nitrates and dissolved solids, 917 for phosphates, 3027 for salt vs 3200 on Hayward control box readout Depending on how the store software is set up and which spindisc they are using the 0 results might just mean that certain tests were not done. Phosphates are a non issue, don't get suckered into phosphate removers. The Hayward readout is reading conductivity, the store test is a chemical test for chloride ions (which will give a slightly different results) or is done with a handheld conductivity meter that might or might not be calibrated.. These results are close enough.
  3. If you mean Ferri-Iron tabs this is just a clarifier designed for sand filter to remove metals that have precipitated out of solution by high chlorine levels. I wouldn't bother. They can;t be used with DE filters and will foul a cartridge filter possibly necessitating its replacement.
  4. This is a phosphonate and is the type of sequestrant that you want to use. It won't remove the metal, as I said, but will make it chemically non reactive as long as you are adding weekly doses to the water. Use the Metal Out by following the directions on the bottle for initial dosing and then weekly maintenance.
  5. (a) you then need to consult the book that came with your kit to determine how much acid is needed to drop the pH to 7.2 based on the number of drops of acid demand reagent. Now check your TA. IF it is not 50 to 70 ppm start aeration until the pH rises to 8.0.do another acid demand test (b). Repeat from (a) to (b) until the TA is in the range of 50 to 70 ppm. If you want you can aerate to bring the pH up to around 7.6 to 7.8 but ;personally I wouldn't bother since the pH will rise on its own. Maintain the pH around 7.8 with bromine for the best pH stability. When doing TA and CH titrations good practice is to add drops until the last drop added produces NO FURTHER COLOR CHANGE and then don't count that last drop. To use your example, you add 8 drops and then add a 9th drop that does not produce any further change of the red color. Don't count that 9th drop so you would be at 80 ppm TA. Decontamination is done with chlorine (use bleach btw) You don't need sodium bromine or bromine tabs for this step. lo lower pH you add acid. The pH will come down. That's how it work. You have to add enough acid to overcome the buffering effect of the carbonic acid/bicarbonate buffer we call TA. Lowering TA is done by lowering your pH, which lowers the TA, then aerating to raise pH WITHOUT RAISING TA by outgassing carbon dioxide so it cannot reform bicarbonate (TA). It is a process that takes multiple times lowering pH and then aerating before you see results. The act of adding acid lowers TA because it converts bicarbonate into carbonic acid (for our purposes this is the same as carbon dioxide dissolved in the water). When TA is high it takes more acid to lower the pH from the same starting point to the same endpoint (i.e. from 7.8 to 7.2) than it does when the TA is low. Also the effect of this buffer system is to cause pH to rise. This can be minimized by keeping the TA low (but not too low so pH doesn't "crash" and this is determined by the products you are using for sanitation and shock), NOT putting the pH too low (7.7 -7.8 and lower it when it hits 8.0 no lower than 7.6), and adding 30-50 ppm borate with either a commercial borate product for spas and/or pools or by using boric acid (which will cause a slight pH drop that I usually ignore since the pH WILL rise) or borax- sodium tetraborate decahydrate (20 Mule Team Borax) or pentahydrate and the the necessary acid to neutralize the pH increase from the borax. some commercial borate products are pH neutral since they are a mixture of boric acid and the pentahydrate form of borax while others are just sodium tetraborate pentahydrate and the instructions tell you that you also need to add acid (either muriatic or dry) when dosing.
  6. No but sanitizer cannot be at shock levels (needs to be under 10 ppm for both chlorine and bromine) since high sanitizer levels interfere with both the pH and TA tests. NEVER test or adjust TA or pH when sanitizer is high. Your readings will either be inaccurate or unreadable (colors not on pH comparator, particularly with bromine)
  7. What is your sanitizer in PPM? "Highest level: tells us nothing, What is the actual number. You added 2 drops of which reagent and it turns pink? Are you talking about the acid demand test? Once again, "turns' pink" tells us nothing. We need the actual test result numbers. First thing to do is post a FULL set of test results done with your test kit (Total Bromine, pH, TA, CH). Don't worry about the acid demand test now. I will add this, there is a strong possibility that your TA is too high at 80 ppm since you are seeing a pH rise that is possibly from outgassing of CO2 but don't do anything until you have posted the test results in case something else is going on. Read these: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/
  8. How are you testing the water? Please post a full set of test results . A TA of 0 is unlikely unless the pH is extremely low! High pH will not normally cause cloudy water. Please post a full set of test results not taken with strips (They are pretty useless for balancing water) Read these pinned posts: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/
  9. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53410-how-to-use-bromine-3-step-method/ My suggestion is to take some time to read the posts that are pinned at the top of the Hot Tub Water Chemistry section of the forum. If you have questions on water maintenance that is the area of the forum to post them.
  10. IF you mean Iron OUT by Summit it is not made for use in swimming pools. If you mean another product named Iron-out please post the manufacturer and ingredients if they are listed on the bottle.
  11. This reinforces my theory of oxidative damage from the chlorine. It is usually not uniform and the fact that you are using trichlor in hot water also reinforces it. It's a metal sequestrant, most likely phosphonate based. Calcium is a metal, which many don't realize. IF you have high calcium in the water then it will chelate it but has to be applied weekly since chlorine destroys it. It does not remove the calcium from the water. If you are located in the US or Canada then you want a Taylor K-2006 test kit (not a Taylor K-2005). If you are in Norway (which your IP address seems to indicate unless you are using a VPN) try to find a test kit that uses liquid reagents and includes tests for Free Chlorine, Combined Chlorine (or Total Chlorine so combined chlorine can be calculated), pH (preferably with acid and base demand tests also because they can help make pH adjustments easier but they are not a requirement) Total Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness and Cyanuric Acid (chlorine stabilizer). These are the basic and necessary tests for a chlorine spa. You also need to stop using trichlor and will need to add chlorine manually. IF you want the convenience of a floater then you need to switch to bromine. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53410-how-to-use-bromine-3-step-method/ First, strips do not test calcium hardness, they test total hardness. Calcium hardness produces scale, magnesium hardness does not. Strips are useless for this test. You want a test for calcium hardness, not total hardness. Second, the hardness is still in the water. It's been temporarily "chemically deactivated' but unless you are redosing the sequestrant it can cause staining or scale, depending on the metals present in the water. A more relevant test would be one of your fill water before dosing with metal sequestrant or your "calcium stabilizer" (which is basically the same as your "metal-gone" product) to see how hard the water actually is. tell us nothing. We need an actual number such as 7.6 or 7.8 etc. Strips are useless for pH because they don't have the resolution needed (and the pH test in strips is notorious for being wrong anyway. Strips are precise (results are repeatable on the same sample) but just not accurate (producing results that are correct). In other words, the results are pure fantasy. The act of adding acid lowers BOTH pH and TA at the same time. Here are some posts that explain a few things about pH and TA https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52522-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/ Once again, this tells us nothing. We need numbers. Once again, this supports my theory on oxidative damage. use;less information, What are your actual Free Chlorine and Combined chlorine readings,and what is the Cyanuric acid reading? IF you are noticing a "chlorine smell" that usually indicates the presence of combined chlorine and that the water needs to be superchlorinated. Bromine is a different animal than chlorine. I recommend using the 3 step bromine method I outlined in one of the links I posted above. Also, you do not need to test for Cyanuric acid in a bromine tub and you only need to test for Total bromine. All other testing parameters are the same. The test kit that I recommend is a Taylor K2106 for bromine. If you get a kit that tests only for chlorine then you can test free chlorine and multiply the results by 2.25 to get a total bromine reading. Be aware that if youi are using a DPD test that it will bleach out and read low on both chlorine and bromine when sanitizer is above about 10 ppm leading you to think that the sanitizer is low or non existent when in reality is it very high, many strips have this problem also (including those based on syringaldazine instead of DPD . This is why I recommend the Taylor K-2006 and K-2106 since they both use FAS-DPD testing which does not have this drawback if you are able to obtain them.
  12. DO NOT DEPEND ON STRIPS. Please invest in a drop based test kit. My recommendation is a Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005) It will test ALL the parameters needed (Free Chlorine, Combined Chlorine, pH with acid demand and base demand, Total Akalinity, Calcium Harness, and Cynauric Acid which is stabilizer). While strips are precise (results are repeatable on the same water sample) they are not accurate (results are close to the true value, usually determined by testing a knows standard test solution for that paramater). Also, strips do not have the resolution for balancing water. For example. strips will tell if if the TA is 40, 80, or 120 PPM (resolution of 40 ppm) which is not help since the TA (total alkalinity) in a chlorine spa should be 60 to 70 ppm for best pH stability which cannot be determined with a strip. The kit I mentioned above has a resolution of 10 ppm which makes it very easy to determine that the TA is in range
  13. There is no 'best' PSI reading. It is dependent on how your equipment is plumbed and turning a water feature or cleaner on or off, changing pump speed, or even changing the size of a return eyeball can and will change the measured PSI reading on your filter's gauge. I think you are confusing PSI and flow rate. The water in your pool should turn over once per day. You determine this by multiplying the the flow rate of your pump in gallons per hour with how many hours you run your pump. This should equal the gallons of water in your pool. With a variable speed pump you can select the flow rate. Lower flow rates will filter more efficiently and also consume less energy but will require a longer run time to turn over your pool water once a day. For example, if it takes 8 hours run time on high speed (this is considered the norm) it might take 12 or 20 hours at a lower speed to turn over the water. To determine which is most energy efficient yo have to look at how many killiwatt hours your pump needs at a certain speed and how long you need to run it at that speed to turn over the water in your pool to determine how much it will cost to run the pump at that speed. You also have to take in account whether you pay a lower rate at non peak times for electricity because you can also save money by running your pump during these non peak times. Pump run time does not need to be continuous but can be broken up into on times and off times in a 24 hours period to take advantage of this. If you have to run the pump at different speeds because of pool cleaner use then calculate each separately and add the electric costs and turnover rates together. This will obviously take a bit of calculation on your part and perhaps a bit of trial and error to see how low a flow rate will work with how your pool is plumbed and your filter. It needs to be enough to match your filter's minimum flow rate and not exceed the maximum flow rate of the filter and plumbing. If your pump and filter were properly sized for your pool and plumbing this should already be done but you can double check by looking at the specs for your filter. This blog might help you also and also explain how to deal with back pressure from the plumbing (be aware that it recommends turning over the water twice a day. Once a day is the minimum for water turnover but turning it over more frequently hurts nothing, except possibly the cost of running your pump, and will help with maintaining the water since you are 'cleaning' the water in the filter more frequently. https://poolresearch.com/pump-size-calculator/ The reason you have a PSI gauge on your filter is to determine when to clean it. Depending on your setup you will have a 'normal' PSI reading (check this when the filter is newly backwashed or when installing a new cartridge or changing the DE, depending on the type of filter you have). When the PSI rises 8-10 PSI above this baseline it's time to clean your filter. As far as pump speed, max speed is usually only needed if you have certain water features or a suction or pressure pool cleaner. You will need to run at max speed or close to it when these are running. For normal pool circulation and filtering you can and should run at a lower speed, which should save electricity once you determine the 'sweet spot' as I outline above.
  14. Both Polaris and Pentair make pressure side cleaners that attach to a pool return and do not require a booster pump or replumbing. They work well but not quite as well as the booster pump models, IMHO. You do need a certain flow rate from your return and in some cases this means closing off other returns or installing smaller eyeballs to restrict the flow. This could be a solution for you if you don't want to go with a robotic cleaner.
  15. @RDspaguycheck out my edit in bold in my post above. I forgot some important information.
  16. As I said, improper maitenance. Water should have been tested on Sunday BEFORE entering the spa to make sure that chemical levels were correct. What chemicals were tested and what was added?
  17. You might know sodium percarbonate under it's most widely known brand name OxyClean. (the original powder formulation) When added to water it forms hydrogen peroxide and sodum carbonate (washing soda which is the same as pH increaser you get from the dealer). The dry acid (pH down from the dealer) is needed to offset the pH increase it causes. As I said, I don't know which one is faster but I do know that both methods work and both require a bit of patience to oxidize all the biguinide in the pipes and surfaces. As far as chemical sensitivity, it is more likely you suffered toxic effects from inhaling either ozone or high volume peroxide mist (used as an oxidizer in biguinide spas and pools), IMHO. Neither ozone nor peroxide are sensitizers. As far as the skin irritation, was it all over or in localized areas? You said that you used strips. Not all biginide test strips test peroxide and shock. Most only test biguinide, pH, and TA. What parameters do your strips test. I am curious to see exactly which chemical levels you tested for and which were not tested. You also state that you use the spa infrequently which makes me think that you also test the water infrequently. This could lead to the growth of pseudomonas aeruginosa, a bacterium that causes folliculitis ("hot tub itch"). Testing infrequently can also mean that pH is too high or low and this can also cause skin irritation in some individuals. It is entirely likely that both your rash and throat irritation are caused buy different agents but are the result of improper maintenance.
  18. My 2 cents: A few red flags for me here that might be related. You have a floater for chlorine in a spa? The only form of chlorine used in a floater is trichlor, which is very acidic and dissolves quickly at spa temperatures and can lead to high chlorine situations that can damage and oxidize plastic parts above the waterline in a covered spa. Trichlor is slow dissolving at pool temperatures making it useful in a floater but it's solubility increases with temperature making it an unsound choice for a spa. Calcium only precipitates out in alkaline conditions and only below and at the waterline, not above. It also is only on plastic parts from what I can tell in the picture. This would lead me to believe that is it not scaling but damage from low pH on the plastic. I can't see any on the acrylic shell so I don't know if it is present there also. High FC levels can also cause oxidation of plastic parts and what I see on your skimmer looks like this might be what is happening. I don't see a buildup. I see what looks like a degradation of the plastic surface. You stated that you keep your spa covered so their might be a buildup of chlorine gas or volatile oxidation byproducts under the cover causing this. Also, you did not say whether you have ozone or not. There should be NO residual ozone in the water but the way many manufactures install ozone there is and it can build up in a covered spa and cause oxidation damage above the waterline too. Vinegar is too weak to have an effect on calcium carbonate. A stronger acid is needed. Baking soda is just an abrasive if used as a moistened paste and can damage the surfaces. Baking soda will also raise TA and that could increase scaling. (High TA and high CH is a recipe for scale formation and, in case you didn't know, baking soda is sodium bicarbonate is sodium hydrogen carbonate is alkalinity increaser from your dealer. They are all one and the same!) DON'T try using a Magic Eraser or other melamine foam sponge. They are very fine abrasives (like very fine sandpaper) and WILL dull and scratch the surfaces. What is calcium stabilizer? Never heard of such a product. Please post the ingredients. IF the ingredients include any mention of the word calcium then it's a calcium hardness increaser. IF the ingredients mention phosphonic aicd, phosphonate, EDTA or Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid (not a complete list but these are the most common ones) then your product is a metal sequetrant. Calcium is a metal. These will not lower the level of calcium in the water but will make it chemically inactive so it will not deposit as scale. They need to be added weekly. Over time (many months to years) they can have some effect on removing existing calcium staining and are the only way to remove calcium silicate staining on fiberglass, acrylic, vinyl and other plastic surfaces. On plaster pool and spa surfaces a pumice stone is used to remove calcium silicate and an acid wash for calcium carbonate (or a pumice stone for waterline buildup on tile surfaces. Now, under the assumption that the white stain is actually calcium (jury is still out on this, IMHO): The only chlorine that will cause scaling is cal hypo (calcium hypochlorite) which adds 7 ppm calcium for every 10 ppm of FC added. Scaling occurs under conditions of high calcium hardness and high pH (which is normally linked to high total alkalinity) IF you are using trichor in your spa stop and switch to different form of chlorine other than cal hypo or switch to bromine if you want to continue using a floater. Trichlor requires a high TA to prevent pH crashes because it is so acidic. IT can also damage plastic parts because of it's low pH. First question is how high IS your calcium hardness in the tub (strips won't tell you, they test total hardness only and magnesium does not cause hard scale. Second question how high is the calcium hardness in your fill water, Third question, Where is your pH NORMALLY and what is your TA? Smooth white to grey scaling is often calcium silicate and not calcium carbonate and it's next to impossible to remove. The way to tell the difference is to put a few drops of muriatic acid on the scale. If it bubbles it's calcium carbonate, if it doesn't it's most likely calcium silicate. As I said above, the only way to remove calcium silicate from plastic, acrylic, vinyl, and fiberglass surfaces is by weekly use of a metal sequestrant (preferably one with a high affinity for chelating calcium vs. other metals like iron or copper, often sold as calcium hardness reducer) over a long period of time and only partial removal might occur.
  19. Only thing I will add is that ALL pool owners should upgrade their drain covers and suction inlets in pools and spas IMMEDIATELY if they have not already done so. I am pinning this topic because it's an important one!
  20. You need to add chlorine or another oxidizer such as sodium percarbonate until all the biguinde is oxidized. It can take up to a week. Don't change out the filter until you are done since it will keep getting gunked up with goo. Just clean it as best you can. Here is a step by step: Make sure biguinde is 30 ppm or less. O is better. Even if it tests at 0 ppm biguinide is a polymer and tends to coat surfaces and plumbing so it's still there. Adjust pH to 7.2 Add enough bleach or liquid chorine to raise the FC to 15 ppm. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53108-some-truths-on-bleach-dosing/ Be prepared for the goo and the colored water. Keep adding beach to bring the FC back to 15 ppm as it is consumed by oxidizing the biguinide, The more often you test and bring the FC back to 15 ppm the faster the conversion will go. Testing and raising FC hourly is not too often. Clean filter as needed, it will continue to clog. When water clears and FC is holding (1 ppm or less overnight loss of chlorine) change the filter, throw out the old one, and clean any remaining goo from the tub. Maintain the 15 ppm FC level. When you have .5 ppm combined chlorine or less for 2 consecutive days your conversion is complete. An alternative method that some feel is faster and easier is to use sodium percarbonate which you can order online from such retailers as Amazon and The Chemistry Store) or Proteam Pool Rescue (which is also sodium percarbonate) from a local or online pool supply that carries Proteam products at a dose of 1.5 oz by weight per 100 gallons of water in the tub AND .75 oz of dry acid (pH down) per 100 gallons. Let circulate for 48 hours. Adjust pH to 7.2 before beginning. Percarbonate will consume any chlorine in the water until it has been oxidized by the chlorine. My feeling is that if you have a high biguinide level at the start of the process then using percarbonate will be faster but if your biguinide level is already low then just using chlorine will be faster but I have not tested this out. After 48 hours add enough liquid chlorine to raise FC by 10 or 15 ppm (The higher the FC the faster it will eliminate the percarbonate, This is also the time to change the filter and throw out the old one. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53108-some-truths-on-bleach-dosing/ Test after 1 hour. The FC will have dropped. Keep testing and bringing the FC back to 10 or 15 ppm until FC is holding with no more than an overnight 1 ppm loss. and CC is .5 ppm or less When using percarbonate you are using the percarbonate to oxidize the biguinide and then have to add chlorine until it consumes the percarbonate instead of using the chlorine to oxidize the biguinide. Hope this is helpful. Good news is that you only have to do this once. I have yet to come across anyone that has ever gone back to biguinide after converting to chlorine or bromine. As a side benefit you will find that your chemical spending will be much lower with chlorine.
  21. "crystal clear" does not mean balanced and sanitized. They are two different things, While strips can be precise (repeatable results on the same sample) they are not that accurate (proper results on a known standard solution used to calibrate testing). Also their resolution is useless for trying to balance water. For example, strips have a resulotion of 40 ppm for the TA test (they go from 40 to 80 to 120). If you are trying to calculate the calcium saturation index (for a plaster pool) you need a resolution of 10 ppm. Also, for a salt pool the TA measurement is extremely important for controlling the pH rise. You want your TA at 60-70 ppm. Strips can't do that. I know this one well since I have an Aqualogic (full automation system) with a T-15 cell. You must have CYA in the water and then dial down your output to maintain a FC of 3 to 5 ppm (personnally I run my at 4-6 ppm). Hayward recommends CYA of 60 to 80 ppm. I recommend the upper limit. Generally, go by the salt level on the readout but do check it with a strip or drop test from time to time, perhaps monthly. IF the salt cell is reading correct but the strips or drop test are reading much higher then there is a good chance that the cell is getting calcium deposits and needs to be acid washed with muriatic acid. Your manual will explain how to do this. This is why I suggested not using cal hypo at all,. You want to use liquid pool chlorine or plain unscented chlorine bleach (Clorox or a house brand from the grocery that has no scents, thickeners, or detergents added such as 'outdoor' bleach or 'dripless' bleach.) However as I said before, once your water is balanced and your salt systems adjusted to maintain the proper FC level there should be no need to shock. IF the TA is in the right range and you don't try to set your pH too low then you won't need to "control" the pH. Also, adding borate to 50 ppm (either with boric acid, borax and acid to adjust for the pH rise from the borax, or a commercial product such as Proteam Supreme Plus or BIoguard Optimizer Plus (which are mixtures of borax and boric acid so they are pH neutral on addition) and you maintian your pH in the 7.6 to 7.8 range and only lower it when it climbs to 8.0 you will find that pH stays very stable for an extended period. https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/52523-some-truths-about-ph-and-ta/ https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/28846-lowering-total-alkalinity-howto/ NOT! It is more likely in the range of 60 to 100 (and I am being generous). Retest when you get your K-2006. I would much prefer you post the results from your K 2006 if you have any difficulties using it Taylor Technologies has videos on proper testing procedures: https://www.taylortechnologies.com/en/page/231/k-2006-complete-kit-with-fas-dpd The pool store numbers you posted indicate that a colorimeter is being used to read either strips, discs, or vials. If the store is using strips the results are meaningless, IMHO. If Discs (LaMotte Spindisc/Waterlink) it's OK but there are some limitations in colorimetric testing of TA and CH when compare to a titration test (Taylor) Hach and older LaMotte systems used vials. Hach has some limitations in what is being tested and the Lamotte uses the same chemistry as the spindisc with the same limitations. Also, many pool store employess are not properly trained (When I worked retail I had the LaMotte certification for their in store testing system). Have you ever noticed how the printout that you get at the store always recommends what chemicals you need to add and how much? That is because pool stores make money by selling you as many chemicals as they can, even if you don't really need them, and the software is optimized to sell product. A few fun facts: Alkalinity increaser is nothing more that baking soda (sodium bicarbonate, sodium hydrogen carbonate) . You can buy it in the baking aisle of the grocery for a lot less. Arm and Hammer packages their baking soda for the pool/spa industry under the name of Alkalinity First but it's not any different than their regular baking soda except for the size of the bag. SWCG systems product sodium hypochlorite (the chemistry is a bit more complex but what you end up with is exactly the same as if you had added sodium hypochlorite to the water). Sodium Hypoclorite is sold in 10% AND 12.5% solutions as liquid pool chlorine. It is also sold in 3%, 5.25%, 6% and 8.5% strengths as household liquid chlorine bleach or laundry bleach. the 6% and 8.5% strengths are often referred to as 'ultra' bleach. pH increaser is nothing more that washing soda (Sodium carbonate). IF you need it (you don't with a SWCG!) you can get it in the laundry Aisle as Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda. It can be useful for those that use trichlor exclusively since trichlor causes both pH and TA to drop fast and requires TA to be rum at 100 to 120 ppm or even higher. Sodium carbonate will raise BOTH pH and TA at the same time, raising the quicker than the pH in many cases. A better alternative to raise pH with minimal impact on TA is to use sodium tetraborate decahydrate, which can also be found in the laundry aisle under the name 20 Mule Team Borax. Dose it at twice the dose required for sodium carbonate for the equivalent pH rise. It has minimal impact on TA, which is what you want with every other form of chlorine besides trichlor. The BEST way to raise pH with NO impact on TA is by aeration which causes CO2 to outgas which, in turn, causes pH to rise. I give a detailed description in the link above on lowering TA since this is part of the process.
  22. Invest in a Taylor K-2006 test kit and test your own water. (Don't get the K-2005, you want the K-2006). Depending on your SWGC make and model you might also want to invest in either the Taylor K-1766 salt test kit or Taylor or AquaChek salt test strips. What brand SWCG? The majority of them need a CYA oof 80 ppm. Some say as low as 50 ppm and some 100 ppm. CYA of 1 is testing error. You have no CYA in the pool! This is problem #1. Muriatic acid is a better choice with a SWCG. . Dry acid adds sulfates to the water, which can cause problems with your salt cell over time. What is your total alkalinity and calcium hardness? (Strips do not test for calcium harness, they test total hardness) The milky precipitate you saw in your 'vase experiment' with the pool water is very possibly calcium carbonate precipitating out. Cal Hypo will add 7 ppm of calcium hardness for every 10 ppm of free chlorine added. Why are you shocking a salt pool. If properly set up they don't need shocking and either liquid chlorine or laundry bleach (both are the same except for the strength) are better choices because it's exactly the same thing that your cell is producing. Also, just about every SWCG on the market has a superchlorinate setting which will shock the pool if needed. Finally Cal Hypo is not a good choice for a salt pool because it will lead to calcium buildup on the cell and nessesitate acid washing the cell which, IMHO, is a PITA. My own salt pool has only needed to be shocked when I have shut it down when I have gone on vacation and I shock before I leave, shut the pool down, and shock again when I return. It was general information. Without water test results AND a list of all pool chemicals with brands (and ingredients if possible) it's impossible to give you anything specific to deal with the conditions in YOUR pool. However, the additional information you provided has illustrated that there are several simultaneous problems going on. Once again, I strongly recommend getting a Taylor K-2006 test kit and get rid of the strips.
  23. If your CYA is 30 to 50 ppm then shock to 15 ppm for vacation. Sbock again when you return and wait for FC to drop below 10 ppm before entering tub. If CYA is below 30 ppm shock to 12 ppm and once again when you return to 12 ppm.
  24. That is the first question I need answered. What they describe sounds like residual ozone in the water which, as you well know, should not be there because ozone is toxic and can be caustic when inhaled. My second question is what are the water test results and how were they done? Need to see a full set of accurate and precise test results NOT done with strips.
  25. What is your pH? Most likely the iron went back into solution because your pH was low. The green wate is easily explained. Dissolved iron will color the water yellow and you have a blue pool. Blue and yellow make green. It it also possible that the iron has redeposited on the blue surface as an iron stain which is a yellowish brown stain and that would also look green. Need a full set of tests results NOT done with strips (either a drop based test kit from Taylor or dealer testing with either liquid reagents or a disc read in a machine. With accurate test results we can better tell what is going on in the water. The orange powder you are seeing is rust (iron oxide) that has precipitated out of solution, usually because of high pH. If you drop the pH (such as by using trichlor as your chlorine source, which I suspect you might be) then it will go back into solution and most likely color the water yellow. As a side note, fiberglass pools are prone to iron stains (and cobalt spotting). Iron stains can be removed with ascorbic acid (vitamin C), citric acid, or oxalic acid. It is a procedure which I can explain if you have actual stains on the fiberglass surface. Clarifiers and flocks will not take car of your iron problem. FWIW, the only way to remove iron is to precipitate it out into the filter as stain, not as precipitated iron oxide, which, as you found, could be smaller than the filter pores (unless you have a DE filter and not a cart or sand). Metal "removers" are just sequestrants that chelate the metal ions (deactivate them) but require weekly treatments to keep the metal 'deavtiated, so it does not stain or precipitate. Products based on phosphonic acid are much more effective than ones based on EDTA but, as I said, the iron is still in the water, just not chemically reactive. Iron can be removed from your fill water by running it through a 'green sand' or other iron specific ion exchange medium (usually used in conjunction with a whole house water softener). Post those test results and we can take it from there.
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