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Everything posted by waterbear

  1. Salt water chlorine generators require adding salt to the water to a certain PPM level (determined by the manufacturer) and some also require the addition of stabilizer too. It's done at fill up and after every water change. However, this does not mean that you do not have to test your water. You still need to monitor chlorine, pH, total alkalinity, calcium hardness, and possibly cyanuric acid (stabilizer).
  2. Both products are trichlor, a stabilized form of chlorine. My guess is that your stabilizer is too high which "deactivates" the chlorine and allowes "nasties" to grow. (White water mold is bacterial, btw.) What is the CYA level in the water and where do you maintain your FC? Posting a full set of test results would tell us a lost more!
  3. not unusual either. stuff can accumulate in areas of low water flow, especially on a material such as a gasket that has an affinity for deposits to adhere. Your situation is fairly common. gunk accumulates when there is not a lot of water flow and on materials that the gunk can stick to readily. If it makes you feel better thinking your situation is unique then go for it but it's really not.
  4. Yes, it's a common occurrence. Most spas get a scom line so many don't realize aromatherapy products can add to it but if you think about it you realize it's just common sense.
  5. Just about all aromatherapy products will increase sanitizer demand and the sanitizer will oxidize them. It's a fragrance so it probably has essential oils (most likely synthetic) or derivatives. When they break down it's very poosible for them to form scum.
  6. are you just dumping in chemicals and hoping for the best or testing your water to determine dosing. What other chemicals are you using that is causing your TA to crash (usual culprits are triclhor, dichlor, and MPS). TA should be fairly stable unless there is a constant source of a low pH product being added regularly. Post a full set of test results and list the chemicals you are adding and how frequently and we can take it from there.
  7. Mineral cartridges for chlorine use silver nitrate and sometimes a zinc salt in a matrix to supply the silver ions. Mineral cartridges for bromine use silver chloride in a calcium carbonate matrix. Silver nitrate will react with bromine to form silver bromide which will precipitate out.
  8. For dry ingredients an ounce is by weight. For liquid ingredients it's by volume. Same as in cooking. Think about it this way. An ounce by volume of water, mercury, and heavy cream all will have the same volume ( but different weights), while an ounce by weigh of ball bearings, baking soda, and feathers would have the same weight but very different volumes. With pool and spa dry chemicals some might be fine powders (dichlor), some might be pellets (CYA), and some might be chunks (calcium chloride dihydrate) so an ounce by weight would not be the same volume for any of them. The ONLY time an ounce by weight and by volume are the same is for water. This is considered common knowledge (and common sense) so it's not on labels. An inexpensive digital kitchen scale and PLASTIC kitchen liquid measuring cups and spoons (and perhaps a chart that shows equivalences such as 16 Tbls. in a cup and 3 tsp. in a Tbls.) are necessary pool and spa equipment that is often overlooked!
  9. Post what sanitizer and other products you have added to the water (any balancers, clarifier, algaecides, etc.). DId you add the dicHlor and what did it do to your CYA? (Dichlor adds 9 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm FC added!) Mustard Algae usually does not just grow on gaskets. It will usually be on the walls and floor of the tub and is a bright mustard yellow color. White water mold (which is bacterial) is usually seen as free floating flakes in the water that disintegrate when touched. I've never seen them collect on a gasket like in your picture. I suspect it's more likely some sort of scum in the water from bathers (suntan products. lotions, creams, hair products, normal body oils, etc). They usually form a scum line in the tub but can collect behind jets since, as @RDspaguysaid, not much water gets their and it's very possible for matter to collect. Do you also have any kind of scum line in the tub? One of the purposes of the filter is to collect such matter, so finding it in the filter means the filter is doing what it is supposed to be doing. White water mold would not really collect in the filter nor would mustard algae. I prefer to drop a Scumbug, Zorbie, or Sunsorb or one of the other oils absorbing sponges in the water to deal with scum. They are inexpensive and is the first thing I would try to see if it eliminates or lessens the problem You can also try an enzyme product but I haven't found them to be any more effective than an oil absorbing sponge and they cost a LOT less.
  10. I am very interested in how you determine this since OTO (orthotolidine) , DPD (diethyl-p-phenyleneldiamine), FAS-DPD (ferrous ammonium sulfate / diethyl-p-phenyleneldiamine), and SYD (syringaldazine) cannot differentiate between chlorine, bromine, iodine, nor MPS. A bromide bank is NOT necessary if you are adding both sodium bromide and an oxidizer at the same time. In fact, this is how two step bromine works. The one step products just mix them together so you do not need to dose with 2 products at the same time. Perhaps you should learn a bit more about the chemistry behind the use of bromine in a hot tub. If there is no bromide bank it means that you have to add sodium bromide and an oxidizer to create bromine sanitizer, once the bromide reserve is established then only the addition of an oxidizer is necessary to generate bromine sanitizer.
  11. Your high sanitizer demand sounds like it might be a biofilm problem. When is the last time you purged your spa? What are your thoughts @RDspaguyand @Ahhsomeguy?
  12. No, this is not true. The chlorine in the one step product will oxidize the bromide in the product and create bromine sanitizer. OP stated he is in Canada. Sodium Bromide is not available in Canada. NO ,it is not. Parameters for bromine are different than parameters for chlorine. For example, bromamines are active sanitizers so bromine systems are only tested for total bromine and pH range is wider for bromine spas. Also, the effect of DMHD used in bromine tabs needs to be taken into consideration when 3 step bromine is used.
  13. are they using strips in a reader, disc in a reader, or liquid reagents or tablets in a reader? This is the red flag. With a CYA of 79 you need to maintain the FC in the 6 to 12 ppm range for normal chlorination with a target of about 9 ppm FC and shock to about 32 ppm to get rid of the combined chloramines and other oxidation byproducts. (FC should be about 8% to 15% of the CYA level, with a target range of 11% to 12% of the CYA. Shock level is about 40% of the CYA level) (Thanks to Chem Geek for determining these levels based on the work of Ben Powell from PoolForum) My suggestion is to drain about about 2/3 of your water and replace it, rebalance, retest , and use the above percentages to determine where to maintain your FC and shock levels based on the CYA level and DO NOT USE A STABILIZED CHLORINE which will add more CYA (Dichlor adds 9 ppm CYA for every 10 ppm FC it adds). Use only unstabilized chlorine (bleach-sodium hypochlorite or lithium hypochlorite a fast dissolving unstabilized chlorine often sold as lithium shock, it's expensive) When you do a full drain and refill use dichlor unti the CYA is about 30 ppm and then switch to bleach. Yeah, they say it's a proprietary secret. However the SDS for original lists it as between 3% - 7 % and the concentrated as between 4% - 9% which leads me to believe they are most likely the same as their US counterparts at 5.25% and 6 or possibly 6% and 7.5%. You can verify this by using the information in the link below and adding enough bleach to produce the values in the link based on the volume of water in YOUR tub and testing about 20 minutes after adding the bleach. For example if you have a 300 gal. tub you would need to add 3 tablespoons bleach to achieve the FC rise shown for each strength of bleach. You should then be able to determine the strength of your bleach,
  14. only if there is no CYA in the water. Post a full set of test results and how they were done (strips, liquid reagents, strips in a reader, liquid or tablet reagents in a reader, dealer testing (and was it liquid reagents or was it discs or strips in a reader) and we can take it from there
  15. Enough all of you. I am going to hide these argumentative and inaccurate posts but for the record I will say that RDspaguy and Cranbiz are correct in this one.
  16. shock is a verb, not a noun. It's something you do (raising the FC level (superchlorinating), so a specific product. The source of chlorine does not matter. It can come from adding a product of running the salt generator at full power for 24 hours. In either case you are raising the FC level above normal. You are adding additional chlorine to the tub in either case so , yes, you are adding something to the tub when you boost. Your cell is creating sodium bypchlorite by the electrolysis of salt in the water. Sodium hypochlorite is bleach. By boosting you are adding additional beach to your water. ??? I think you are confusing CC (combined chloramines) with CYA (cyanuric acid) . If there is no CYA then superchlorinating to 10x the CC will usually be high enough. IF there is .5 ppm CC then shocking to .5 x 10 = 5 ppm FC is good. IF there is 0 ppm CC then 0 x 10 = 0 FC is needed (no shocking needed). IF CC is 2 ppm then 2 x 10 -= 20 ppm is needed. Once CYA is in the water the amount needed changes because of the complex interaction between CYA and chlorine and the above rule does not apply. IF there is CYA present then shock level is approx 40% of the CYA level for manual chlorination. With a salt system a lower shock level will work because of the very high FC levels in the vicinity of the salt cell (a small portion of the water is constantly being shocked). Therefor the recommendation of 15 to 20 ppm should be adequate. IF there is still persistent CC over .5 ppm then different tactics can be employed but most of the time the above recommendation should work. Hard to say. Depends on the organic load and disinfection byproducts that need to be oxidized. Leaving the tub uncovered accomplishes a few things: 1. it protects the cover from damage by the high chlorine level2. it allows the oxidation byproducts to gas out of the water. yes no, pH rise should be non existent or minimal with your low TA No, it won't. Bleach is pH neutral Alkaline on addition but has an acidic reaction when it oxidizes for a net pH neutral effect on the water. The only thing it will add is salt as it is consumed. This is why the salt level for your generator stays stable and only needs to be replenished because of splash out. The salt keeps regenerating. (oversimplified chemistry by basically true) HOWEVER, AND THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!!! pH will appear to have gone up when sanitizer levels are high. Never test pH when FC levels are above 10 ppm with Taylor reagents. Other pH tests often will read high at 5 ppm FC or even less. The indicator dye used (phenol red) converts to chorophenol red when FC is high. Chlorophenol red is an indicator dye that changes color from yellow to violet in the pH range 4.8 to 6.7 (same color change as phenol red but at a lower pH range so when it shows the purple color it means that your pH is somewhere above 6.7 but there is no way to tell just how much above 6.7 it is. Taylor includes an inhibitor in their phenol red to allow it to work at higher FC levels but most other manufacturers do not. Bottom line, never try to test pH when sanitizer is above 10 ppm.
  17. When persistent CC is above .5 ppm you need to shock. More on that in a bit. Also, instead of using a 25 ml. sample for the chlorine tests with the K-2006 use a 10 ml sample. You really don't need a precision of .2 ppm. With a CYA of 60 and persistent CC I would run the FC in the 5 to 9 range. with a target of 6 or 7 ppm. To help oxidize the CC shock with bleach to a level of 15 to 20 ppm. Let the FC drop to below 10 before entering the tub and keep the tub uncovered until the FC has dropped. You can leave the salt system on when you shock since it's also producing bleach (sodium hypochlorite) or turn it off (but make sure to turn it back on to maintain your FC level. You might be able to get rid of the CC or get it to .5 ppm or lower by running your FC higher for a week or two so try that before you shock. "Boosting" is shocking. A better term for shocking is superchlorinating. ONLY if there is NO CYA present. You can but it's not necessary. I don't. Here is some info on bleach dosing: https://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/53108-some-truths-on-bleach-dosing/
  18. Try posting in a new thread instead of posting at the end of an eight year old thread if you want your question to be seen.
  19. Post a full set of test results and how you got them (strips, drop test kit, dealer testing, etc.) and we can take it from there.
  20. Trichor tablets dissolve too fast in the hot waters of a spa. They are also very acidic and can cause damage. Use a different source of chlorine or switch to bromine.
  21. Time to put your analyst on danger money. You're getting turned on by water care products! 😅
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