walleye

Thanks for the reply and link. Has there been any improvements on circ pumps as far as fluid moved... since that thread is 3-4 years old? Or are the same opinions valid today as well? Sounds like both are adequate.

Is it important to have a separate circulation pump, or is it OK to have the other pumps circulate for filtration? Pros and cons? I was hot on a tub a while back but it got put on the back burner. Now I am thinking about it again. Thanks

Thanks Spa Guy. I understand why and thanks for the great reply "over there".

Here is my post from the other forum. From Marky Mark. (thats me) Feel free to give my advice as that is what I want. Thanks MarkyMark, are you in the market for a tub, or are you a servicetech or salesman, on the other thread you said you did not like full foam,,,,then you are this one about the COstco tub be Clearwater,, not sure of this model, but i also sell Clearwater, as well as D1, i can tell you the ins and outs of both....,, i like both but lean toward the foam side... but on a thermal chamber i will only sell with the 24/7 circ pump, I know that Clearwater offers a Costco road show, but did not know they are supplying them to Costco. i will have to check that out...But curious on how you came to the decision of the insulating of the tub to make your purchase... ELF: LOL! I am far from a spa salesman or a spa tech. In fact, I have never owned a spa or worked on one. I have only been in one a few times, hardly a expert. I don't know where you get I am a full foam fan, on this thread as on others, I state I do not want one. So there is some confusion there, but no harm on this end. I have a bad back I have lived with most of my life, and hot showers and such help out quite a bit. I also have a perfect spot in my new home for a spa, so I have decided to get one. No troll here, I promise. Trouble is getting a honest opinion anywhere on the net. Full of trolls and dealers. I base my opinion on full foam VS not only as a result of my own reading and learning, picking through the biased replies. No doubt I believe they are superior in making a tub more solid, especially if you plan on moving it, which I do not. I am also convinced, that if you live in a warmer climate, which I do, the thermal panes are much better than they used to be. In fact, the newer ones claim better R value than full foam. True or not, I like the fact they are efficient enough with today's technology and I really don't like the idea of ripping and respraying foam if not needed. Also, I am what I consider to be at least decently mechanically inclined, and if I need to repair a pump or leak 5 years down the road, I want EZ access. But that is a matter of opinion, no right answer, just a personal preference. Back to the topic, I know Costco has had a terrible reputation, but I am also willing to admit that they have done much better over the past 2-3 years. People still hammer them from previous mistakes. The owners of the Evolution Spas are for the most part quite happy from what I can find. As you know Evolution is made by Strong. Divine is made by Clear Water, which is what this thread is about. I think they are a decent spa, again based only on what I read. A 5 years ago the things I read were not so good about Clear Water, but they have made big improvements on their products. Anyway, I know Hot Springs and Sundance and so on make good spas, but it seems everybody is convinced that if you don't pay 6-10K on a spa they have to be junk. I don't believe it anymore. I think it has become very competitive. So tell me your honest opinion on Clear Water Spa's? Decent for the money or not? Thanks Elf. I am being totally honest, I want a tub but want a non foamed decent Spa at the best price. I will be a first time ever spa owner. Looking for non biased advice. PS: This does have a 24 hr circ pump.

Yup I am Marky Mark on the other forum....whats your point? I am trying to learn something here and there. If it would be of interest to you I have other forum names as well. Do you want to know them? I just don't get whats up with your comment here, very confusing. Back to the topic, unless you answered on the other forum under another name, what is your honest opinon of the Clear Water Spa? By the way I just posted there as well in a reply to Elf. Was that You?

I may be wrong, but I don't believe Chad is affiliated with Strong anymore. I admit that I have been exceptionally busy and have not been on the forum much lately, so I may have missed something. Has he rejoined Strong?? John Yes, he is still there.

Well, here is another to ask about. COSTCO now has "Divine Spa's", made by Clear Water Spa's. From everything I can find on Clear Water Spa's, they seem to be a very good tub. They are not as inexpensive as the others offered at COSTCO, other than the obvious shorter warranty you will give up (like all COSTCO tubs) How are these tubs? Anyone with any experience with them? I like the fact they have a circulation pump and I like the fact they are not a full foam tub. I do not want a full foam tub, that's just me. Anyway, all comments will be welcomed by me. Every time I get close to purchasing a tub, something comes up. I will have one before fall, that's all I know for sure. Thanks all.

I am so amazed on how everybody (well a lot of people) are just consumed by the fact that since Evolution Spas are sold by Costco, they have to be bad. They have to be junk. No way can they be as good. Impossible. Can it be that they don't like the fact that maybe the time has come where the dealer can't take advantage of the consumer to the highest degree? This has happened on all too many products. Good or bad, it is happening. I have read on multiple forums on how ACTUAL owners are very happy with their Evolution spa. They are made by Strong. Why don't you hear how Strong are junk? Only if they are private labeled....now they magically become inferior. Truth is, many Spas (high end) continue to ride the "history" wagon. I don't like Hot Spring, Sun-dance and others because there is NO WAY I would accept old technology and have a maintenance nightmare of a full foam Spa. Some advantages, but far out weighed with new technology. No need for a full foamed spa today. All main components are basically supplied by the same few manufacturers. And since that is a fact, Evolution offers a lifetime (more than Hot Springs or Sun dance) on the frame and a unmatched on the shell. Whats left? As far as customer support, Chad is the most reliable source either on the net or off. If you have a question he answers online or on the phone. All these Costco bashes (based on a poor history) will have to face the fact that Costco has a good line at a good price. It is true Costco has had a bad history, but the Evolution Spa has a 2-3 year history. All you give up from the Strong Spa line ( a good tub) is some Warranty. Yes they have some inferior models as reflected in the prices they offer, but tubs like the Centurion (6K) are far from cheap but I will put them against a high end 10K tub anytime. Same quality tub....PERIOD. I will soon be purchasing a Evolution tub, and I can tell you I have researched for a year. It is a no brainier IMO.

Thanks EVERYBODY.

My spa will be on a large cement patio. Although it will be just a few feet away from my Bedroom. Should I be concerned about this?

My biggest concern is no circulation pump. Can anyone, (who is not bias) tell me if this is a real concern? Thanks.

Bash.....Huh. My problem is it seems when someone says, they are what they are "an inexpensive option to a more expensive high quality tub" That is considered bashing. So value tub purchasers that used Costco consider them exactly this, sort of. They seem to not be willing to admit it. And they also seem to be figuring out ways to candy coat it. Yet my advice is of no value. Good, I am glad none of my advice got through. I just throw out the best review and the worst review. Almost always these two have something to gain and I don't think this is any different. Once I do that, they have as good as reports and most tubs. I don't know or care why you are so much against them. Bottom line the people who actually own and use them disagree with you. Common sense tells me that is the real review. You say they can't admit the tub is not good. I see it as you can't admit they are. Why can't you accept people are satisfied with them? Heck, being a repair man you should like them if you truly believe they are so troublesome. Have a good day Roger.

Bash.....Huh. My problem is it seems when someone says, they are what they are "an inexpensive option to a more expensive high quality tub" That is considered bashing. So value tub purchasers that used Costco consider them exactly this, sort of. They seem to not be willing to admit it. And they also seem to be figuring out ways to candy coat it. Yet my advice is of no value. Good, I am glad none of my advice got through. I just throw out the best review and the worst review. Almost always these two have something to gain and I don't think this is any different. Once I do that, they have as good as reports and most tubs. I don't know or care why you are so much against them. Bottom line the people who actually own and use them disagree with you. Common sense tells me that is the real review. You sat they can't admit the tub is not good. I see it as you can't admit they are. Why can't you accept people are satisfied with them? Heck, being a repair man you should like them if you truly believe they are so troublesome. Have a good day Roger.

I want to add one more thing. Evolution Spa's have a history now.... I notice they have people standing up for them stating they are decent Spa's. I have not seen much of that with past brands Costco carried. That should speak for itself as well. I think they finally got a good Spa for the money. OK I am done. Thanks for all the posts, it has been helpful.

I have done lots of research and reading about Evolution Spa's in the last month. Although I have found some unhappy owners, the over all reports show very happy owners. I have found just as many unhappy owners of high dollar tubs such as Hot Springs and Sundance and so on. As far as customer support, Chad (who is still there by the way) is likely among the best in responding to customers in the industry. Many people have made that statement on many different online locations. Evolution has been at Costco long enough to show they are not like the rest. These tubs by Strong are decent tubs. Roger obviously has a problem with them which makes me void out just about any comment he makes. It is obvious he will bash them no matter what and that makes it hard to put any value on his posts. Sorry, but that has become obvious. Yes it may be lacking in a few areas but in my final analysis, the savings are too much to ignore. It is hard for dealers and people who spent way more to admit this fact. That is OK as the high dollar hot tubs need people to buy them as well. I will make you a deal, don't hammer me because I might buy an Evolution tub for a few grand less, and I won't hammer you for what I consider spending too much. Don't base Evolution (Strong) along with past failures. That is just bogus. Do the research, look at owners and face the facts. Fact is from what I have learned, Evolution makes a good tub for the money and has great customer support. And no I don't work for them and no I don't own one. Yet.

Every one knows that Strong Hot Tubs make the Evolution Hot Tub sold by Costco. I read all kinds of posts about how Costco sucks, but I see nobody that has bought one say the tub sucks. I want to know for once if the tubs are decent or not. For 3-4K savings they have to REALLY suck. So far, most reviews I see are positive and most slams are from dealers competing. I never have owned a hot tub and am close to buying one. That is why I am asking questions looking for a honest answer. As of right now, dealer support, no circulation pump are the negatives I have learned. That does not add up to 3-4K (or more) In my opinion. Prove me wrong...please before I make a mistake. Is a Strong Hot Tub that bad?

arf1410: If it was worth 1000.00 more for you to order in the first place, there is some value you placed on it. You bought it on sale and I find it almost impossible to imagine you did not know the Key West would go on sale like they all do. The Key West is not near the hot tub and if it is not going to satisfy you then it is not worth 1 cent. Before you buy anything, imagine all the others on sale as they will be. Go ahead and cancel it but I think you will regret it. To get the same features on a name brand you will spend 10K. With the Key West you will be wishing for more....especially on the pump side. Just my opinion.

Keep the Centurion. It will go on sale soon and Costco will refund the difference. You have a lot more tub than the Key West even at $2K difference.

Waterbear / Chem Geek, Thanks for the replies. I meant no foul when asked. In fact after reading your posts I asked only to determine if I should get one once I buy a hot tub. Based on your posts, I trust your opinions. Also, after reading here and other places, I have decided to wait and save a few more $$ and buy a higher end tub. Thanks all.

Chem Geek / Waterbear / Roger: Do you or do you not have an Ozonator?

It depends on your input capacity (the power coming from the pole) If your power supply to your house is maxed out or very close, size of wire and transformer load will be part of what determines this. You can only get this info from an electrician. Look at your main shut off breaker, the one that will shut your whole house off and see what size it is. Then look at and total up all the breakers in your box. If theres room then your right, a simple aux box fed from the main panel. If your load is maxed then.......a bit tougher. I have a total of 680 amps worth of breakers. The main shows 4 200 amp breakers. 800? That leaves 120 amps? Is this correct and is that enough? Thanks. Walleye, first of all it is very doubtful that you have 800 amps of main capacity, unless you live in a huge palace. What you are looking at as four 200A main breakers most likely have their trip handles tied together (or did when installed). This means you have a 200 amp panel. Most of the time there is an ID plate on or in the main panel that will give the box capacity. Adding up the breakers in the box isn't the right approach. All the circuits in a box aren't used at the same time, so it's very normal for the total of all the individual load circuit breakers to come up to far more than the service max. An electrician can do a load calculation and advise you as to whether your main service is adequate. It isn't a precise science, because your usage may vary. For example, if your spa is on, your home air conditioner is running, electric oven and stove going, electric water heater on, garage air compressor kicks on... you could blow your main breaker. But the load calculations are for the most part pretty reliable. Most folks never trip their main breaker. It sounds like your problem is likely one of available slots in the panel. You have said that the panel is full. However, many manufacturers make slim breakers, especially in the 15, 20, an 30A sizes, that are half the width of normal breakers. If your panel is loaded with full-width breakers, it is very possible that you could free up space by substituting some of these slim breakers. It is slightly more complicated than just swapping breakers, though, because the space you need to free up needs to support a 2 pole 240V breaker. Depending on the panel, this may mean that not "any" two adjacent slots will work. Not a huge deal, but not something that is obvious if you're not familiar with panels, their internal bus bars, and breakers. If your panel is already loaded with slim breakers, you may have a bigger (more expensive) problem. There is no way to know here. You should call a couple of electricians, get their expert assessments, and get quotes. But at least you now know a few things to talk to the electricians about. Your spa will likely need a 50A or 60A breaker. This will be a full-size (not slim) breaker. I recommend that you install a regular breaker in the main panel, with the GFI in the subpanel installed out near the spa. This will help minimize false trips of the GFI. Some electricians will install the GFI in the main panel with a simple disconnect in the spa panel. This satisfies code, but isn't the best approach IMO. You can pick up a spa panel at Lowe's or Home Depot for about a hundred bucks that includes the GFI breaker. This is usually quite a bit cheaper than buying just the breaker! Many localities requrie a permit for a spa installation, and if so, you should definitely get one. Unpermitted work can be a liability insurance issue if there's ever a problem, but more importantly you don't want to cut any corners where water, electricity and your family/guests are concerned. In any case, and with all respect, based on your level of familiarity with electrical boxes, I advise that you do not attempt to work on your breaker panel yourself. Even if the mains are off, full voltage is present in the box. Leave this to a licensed electrician. You can get a couple of quotes very easily (maybe even for free) and be certain that you are getting correct advice and good work. Great information and advice. Thank you very much.

It depends on your input capacity (the power coming from the pole) If your power supply to your house is maxed out or very close, size of wire and transformer load will be part of what determines this. You can only get this info from an electrician. Look at your main shut off breaker, the one that will shut your whole house off and see what size it is. Then look at and total up all the breakers in your box. If theres room then your right, a simple aux box fed from the main panel. If your load is maxed then.......a bit tougher. I have a total of 680 amps worth of breakers. The main shows 4 200 amp breakers. 800? That leaves 120 amps? Is this correct and is that enough? Thanks.

Costcos history shows the return policy is where Costco shines, they've never shined in the quality department on thier hot tub offferings, just the opposite. The jury is still out on their latest offering so it would be unfair to assume its more of the same though its also unwise to assume its not, time will tell. The best option under $4k is a well maintained used tub IMO. If you do go the Costco route just go in with the understanding that if things turn sour you plan to return it, not an easy chore for some though you can always hire someone to do that for you if that becomes the situation. Also, Walleye is asking for $4k including wiring. I'm not sure the scope of the wiring, I think he said his breaker box was full. That could be $700 plus easily. Now you're in the $3K budget area, and that's certainly a used spa. Strong Spa's, electrical, movers, you're $5K plus. DK117 Thanks guys. I guess I should have read my own post closer..... I am looking to spend around 4K just for the tub. Not needing speakers and such, just a good hot tub that will relax my body with little trouble. I appreciate your opinions very much.

OK, to make it simple. If I want a decent hot tub for under $4K, what is it? Is this is where Costco shines, providing a decent (not the best)product at a decent price? Obviously if I wanted to spend 6-10K there are better options. Tell me the best option for under $4K please.

My electrical breaker box is full. How big of job is it to add space for 220? Just a piggy back box or is a big deal?