Scubasteve

Brian, what did you soak your filter in? I would recommend soaking your filter in a bleach/water solution and nothing else. Bleach is a diluted form of chlorine that will not cause any problems if a small amount gets into the spa after rinsing. Also, make sure you rinse your swimwear well before using in the spa. A small amount of detergent can cause a lot of foam. Especially if your water is soft.

What a strange problem you're having. I get twice the life out of my filters using Eco One and Dichlor. They are rarely dirty when i take them out and we use our spa heavily. You do not need Rainforest Blue with Eco One. It's your choice what sanitizer you decide to use. Depending on the water properties where you live, these copper type products can sometimes attach to calcium and leave you with green tinted water. These treatments contain a suspension agent/emulsifier that keeps them from dropping out of solution, but excessively high calcium can break the product from this agent. This results in a less effective treatment and green tinted water. Algae causes "cloudy" green water, not "tinted" green water. Products like Rainforest Blue and Pristine Blue are great products, but they are not for everybody. Copper can be found in your tap water as well. This form of copper is natural and has no suspension agent/emulsifier keeping it in solution. A pretreatment with a hose filter or sequestering agent will be needed each time you add water to the pool/spa to prevent broblems.

This could be manufacturing residue coming out of the plumbing. Dealers often do not relay this to their customers, but a new spa should be drained sometime during the first month.

That depends on the chemicals you use and the levels maintained in the spa. Many people have chemicals in their source water that are harmful to breath/absorb and they don't even know it. Nearly all of these listed toxins can be found it your source water. http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/cxcx3.html The point to consider is that people often have whole house water treatment systems that rid these toxins from indoor water, however outdoor water is most often bypassed to cut down on maintenance and expenses of the filtration media.

Rainforest Blue and Nature2 are the only product mentioned that have an EPA registration number. As much as these guys want you to believe Spa Magic is a stand alone sanitizer, they are 100% false. These products help control the spread of bacteria in the spa, but do not kill bacteria themselves. If no bacteria is introduced into the tub, then Spa Magic will work great. However, once bacteria is introduced to the tub it will not destroy it. In the UK, a group of people died in a tub contaminated with a serious strain of bacteria. This is a bigger risk than using small amounts of chlorine with these products. Sure, eveyone wants to get away from chemicals, but used in small amounts they have their place.

Roger, i think you're missing the point that fresh water is determined by the TDS level in the spa. If the TDS remains low the water is still fresh. These treatments maintain low TDS by digesting organic matter and leaving behind Carbon Dioxide and water, which does not add much to the TDS. Hence the increased longevity of the water. Adding fresh water with a TDS of 500 and having 1 year old water with a TDS of 500 will not feel any different. Your determination that fresh water is fresh because you added NEW water is phycological. A lab doing a study on your water from the tap and 1 year old water in your tub with the same properties would determine no difference. Like Jim stated, water is millions of years old to begin with, there is nothing new about it. It all comes down to it's properties. These treatments are wonderful for people who have long cold winters and like to go the length of the winter before needing to change their water.

Roger, they are not " 2 expensive enzyme treatments". Cleanwater Blue is copper based.. Just like Prestine Blue and Rainforest Blue. Eco One has enzymes as 1 of the ingredients, but should not be simply catagorized with products such as Spa Perfect (also a good product) that is simply enzymes. Pristine Blue is the "name" out of the bunch, but is also more expensive.

AAS, my guess is that there is either natural copper in your source water or your pH is too high and the copper is being released from it's carrier. EcoOne allows you to use a wider pH range than most treatments, but this is not ideal when used with Rainforest Blue. Make sure your pH is between 7.2-.7.4 and your problems will go away. Also, take a sample from the hose you fill from (not your spa) and bring it to your local dealer for a free water analysis. They will test for copper. Let your hose run for a minute before taking the sample and use a very clean container that has no surfactant residue. Or just switch to granular chlorine (dichlor) and add the minimum amount after each use. Since Eco One is riding your spa of all the organic matter, you can get by on the miminum amount of dichlor. People that use just dichlor, have to add large amounts to break everything down. Eco One reduces your chlorine usage by handleing the largest task in the spa non-toxically (bather waste/organic matter) and keeps your pH stable (better working environment). This leaves the dichlor for only bacteria, so smaller amounts are more effective.

A constant residual of chlorine is not required with Rainforest Blue, only an occasional shock of chlorine and/or non chlorine shock is needed to keep organic waste from binding the copper Chlorine has a similar trait when ammonia compounds, nitrogen related contaminants, etc bond with chlorine. This reaction leaves you with "combined chlorine", which is also coined chloramines. Combined chlorine is less effective then "free chlorine". Too much combined chlorine will leave you with eye/skin irritations and a strong smell. Even chlorine tubs can harbor bacteria growth when there is too much "combined" chlorine and not enough "'free" chlorine. The bacteria forms a biomass, which gives it immunity to the less effective combined chlorine. Users often think there is too much chlorine in the water, because of the smell and irritations, when in fact there is not enough. To free the chlorine, you have to increase the amount in the water over the resistance threashhold. The dose should be roughly 10 times higher than the combined chlorine level on your test kit. This would be termed a "shock treatment". MPS (Potassium Peroxymonosulfate) can be used to free combined chlorine as well. This is usually the recommended and preferred option to free combined chlorine and often the required methed for releasing combined bromine (bromamines). Back to the Rainforest Blue......Since the copper does not gas out of the spa and it is not an ideal ozidizer at usage levels, shocking with Rainforest Blue isn't a good idea. You will still need to use chlorine and/or MPS as the "occasional" shock treatment to oxidize the organic waist. However, this does not mean a constant residual of chlorine is needed to do an effective job. This is why these alternative forms of treatment are growing rapidly. Too much negative press about chlorine/bromine and an increaseing demand on alternatives. Here's a study that can be found on Google. Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O EPA Registered Non-Chlorine, Non-Bromine Pool and Spa Bacteriacide and Algaecide. Registration #70845 -1- 75033 Establishment #70745-FL-001 Report: University of Maryland Biotechnology Test results show that Rainforest Blue/ ENVIRON 4H2O will kill bacteria and algae. Studies performed at the University of Maryland show the effects of Rainforest Blue/ ENVIRON 4H2O on the cholera bacteria strains Vibrio cholerae 01 and 0139 in aqueous systems. The University of Maryland Biotechnology Institute, Center of Marine Biotechnology "Effects of Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O, a Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate Solution, on the Ultra structure and Survival of Vibrio cholerae01 and 0139, 1994." "Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O is a copper sulfate pentahydrate which is bound to a non-toxic carrier to keep the copper in solution. The effects of Rainforest Blue/ ENVIRON 4H2O on culturability of Vibrio cholerae 01 and 0139 were determined. The electron micrographs of the Vibrio cells before and after exposure demonstrated that Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O flocculated the bacterial cells. By conducting scanning electron microscopy, defect in the bacterial cell wall was observed." "Copper is required for growth of bacteria at low concentrations but will cause a number of toxic cellular effects when intracellular levels reach certain limits (Cooksey, 1993). Copper is a component of certain proteins, notably those involved with respiration (Lontie, 1984). Copper becomes toxic within the cell due to its ability to catalyze adverse chemical side effects such as generation of free radicals (Simpson et. al., 1988). These active compounds can damage intracellular proteins, lipids, and DNA. In addition, copper can directly bind to proteins, linking to sulhydryl groups on the protein molecules, and inhibit normal enzymatic metabolic functions. While copper is an essential element, it also can cause significant stress for the organism, causing injury and/or bactericidal activity (MacLeod, et. al., 1967; Domek, et. al., 1984)." "Cupric sulfate is a widely used inorganic salt, long known to be an effective bactericide and algaecide and has been used as a feed additive and therapeutic agent for agricultural applications (Foye, 1977). Under normal environmental conditions, copper ions are bound and immobilized by many different organic and inorganic compounds making copper unavailable to inhibit microbial growth (Tubbing, et. al., 1994)." "Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O is a suspension of copper sulfate complied to a carrier molecule that itself has several distinctive properties which aid in the bacteriacidal process. The proprietary carrier molecule is a more effective delivery system for copper sulfate and enhances its ability to control bacterial and algal growth by enhancing its stability in aqueous systems." “Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O is a product designed to control pathogenic microorganisms in water." "If the water to be treated is drinking water or natural water that is low in organic matter, pH neutral with a low buffer capacity, the amount of Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O employed can be minimal with a longer exposure time. If the water to be treated is polluted water, the amount used and exposure time should be large and long enough to destroy pathogenic organisms. This will depend on the degree of how polluted the water, probability of contamination with pathogenic bacteria, purpose for which the water will be used after treatment." "For drinking water or natural water, 1.0 PPM of Rainforest Blue/ENVIRON 4H2O and one hour exposure is sufficient to kill Vibrio cholerae 01 and 0139." "For polluted water where high concentration of contamination is present and large numbers of bacteria are present, the recommended dose of ENVIRON 4H2O for Vibrio cholerae 01 and 0139 is 25-30 PPM for two hours or 1.0 PPM for more than 24 hours." END OF REPORT ENVIRON 4H2O is sold under the name "Rainforest Blue" REFERENCES: Cooksey, D. A. (1993). Copper uptake and resistance in bacteria. Mol. Microbiol. 7(1): 1-5 Domek, M.J., LeChavallier, M. W., Cameron, S.C., and McFeters, G. A. (1984). Evidence for the role of copper in the injury process of coliform bacteria in drinking water. Appl. Environ. Microbiol. 48: 289-293. Foye, W.O. (1977). Anti-microbial activities of mineral elements. In: Microorganisms and Minerals (Weinberg, E.D., Ed.) pp. 387-419. Marcel Dekker. New York, NY. Lontie, R. (1984). Copper Proteins and Copper Enzymes. CRC Press, Boca Raton, FL. MacLeod, R.A., Kuo, S.C., and Gelinas, R. (1967) Metabolic injury to bacteria. Metabolic injury induced by distilled water or Cu2+ in the plating diluent. J. Bacteriol 93: 961-969. Simpson, J.A., Cheeseman, K.H., Smith, S.E. and Dean, R.T. (1988). Free radical generation by copper ions and hydrogen peroxide. Biochem. J. 254: 519-523. Tubbing. D.M.J., Admiroal, W., and Cleven, Rob F.M.J. (1994). The contribution of complexed copper to the metabolic inhibition of algae and bacteria in synthetic media and river water. Water Research. 28(1): 37-44