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I don't have the test readings on the water yet, but man do I have a green one this year! Ideally I'd prefer to drain the water, however our water table is just a few feet below the ground surface. Trying to vacuum this one will likely plug the sand filter in just a few seconds. Curious what others have found to work with extreme algae upon opening.

Hey Spa Guru, any thoughts?

It's a two fold problem. For now I'm trying to complete winterization. So for now, I want to keep the water in the pool and out of the return pipe. Seems like epoxy and lots of sealants could do that successfully. As Spa Guru suggests, the problem comes in when the pool is re-opened and that line pressurized. It does seem likely that the return pressure with a running pump could defeat any 'external' sealant applied between the return flange and the pool wall. I have had pretty good luck repairing fittings on spas that I could not otherwise reach, using the two part green epoxy, even when under active pressure. Do you think that applying this inside the return port at the 'internal' junction of the pvc pipe and the port might work? Logic suggests that if epoxy is applied internally, that once it sets up, the pump pressure would only try to push that epoxy into the joint and it seems unlikely it could blow out! Anything has to beat chipping out the return port and likely an inch or more of the plaster so we can get enough clean pvc exposed to glue on a new port. An added problem sets in if we chip off, break off, or dremel off the pvc too far back, then it may not be long enough to glue to the new return port. hum

Spa Guru your post did not show up. Appreciate knowing what you suggest in this situation.

"Sealing a leaking return port flange on gunite pool In trying to winterize this year we find that we have 2 return ports that are leaking between the return port flange and the pool wall." So the leak is between the return port flange and the wall. It is clear that the 1 1/2" pvc that is glued into the back of the return port flange is leaking at that joint. So when you pressurize the return line with air, and plug the port, you get air leaking into the pool. You can see lots of air bubbles coming out between the back of the flange and the pool wall.

I'm hoping to try one of these this weekend, so any tips would be appreciated! I have used the putty like epoxy on leaking spa fittings, even leaking or with some moisture present, so since the pool walls will still contain some moisture, the epoxy putty might be my first choice, but I'm open to new ideas!

Sealing a leaking return port flange on gunite pool In trying to winterize this year we find that we have 2 return ports that are leaking between the return port flange and the pool wall. What the best product to seal this? I've considered: putty-like epoxy polyurethane caulk silicone silicone glue other? Tips appreciated

We have a 5-6 yr old octagonal Rio spa by Strong spas. I'm getting a FLO code. I have bypassed the pressure switch with no change. Oddly, I am getting full voltage to the heating element, which is supposed to not be possible based on the Flo message. Anybody had any luck with this kind of problem? Are there any sources for used boards around? The board is a Mini Max by Correct-Tech in Canada. Known as a ct-250, and known as a 4-3-10-1503D

My question is related but a little different. I've got a generic spa so the brand is unknown. I've got a leaking sidewall jet fitting. It is a right angle affair . Starting with what is probably a piece of 1/2" flex line that's glued in, the jet turns 90 degrees and reduces way down, in the turn, to like a 1/4" or so in the turn, before transitioning back up to a 1/2" or so where it enters the side wall from the backside. It also accepts the small 1/4" clear line which t's into this fitting. I see no obvious means of attachment like threads. I do see a lot of silicone underneath which must have held the fitting in place during assembly. My question is how does one remove and replace this kind of fitting, esp when the brand is unknown. Is it possible based on my description and the major reduction in the 90 degree turn, for an expert to tell what brand or type of fitting I'm dealing with? Tips appreciated.

A Likely Solution? I believe I have found and stopped the leak. At least for now, and seemingly for the most part. I'm posting this in thanks for those who contributed above, and hopefully to help others who may encounter a problem like mine in the future! I was loosing 4" overnight and now, it's maybe 1/4" or less overnight. (Temps here are 40-50 so evap should be at a minimum). I realize I still may have some small leaks. I spoke at length with a guy who plasters new pools professionally, asking about those hairline cracks. He said that since they were above the winterized water level, he suspected that they were due to drying out of the plaster with the water level lowered. He finds that the hairline cracks like mine usually disappear once the water level is raised, due to adding moisture back to the plaster. He said that in 20 years of plastering pools, he had only found one pool materially leaking through this kind of hairline crack. So just to be cautious, I did apply a skim coat of silicone to them before refilling, though they were not my main suspects! I got on a mechanic's creeper and spent several hours examining the tile line around this 40' pool. I found about 8-10 openings in the grout between those tiles at various places from 1/4" up to 2".I cut out the bad grout and replaced it with silicone for a temporary repair. I know that matching grout might have been better - I just didn't have any available on short notice. I also spent a fair amount of time in and around the pool side openings to the skimmers. There was some obvious missing grout there, and I did carefully seal the vertical and horizontal joints between the skimmer box and the plaster. (On my pool, that vertical joint was up inside the skimmer, maybe 4" from the face of the pool wall) I let that cure about 8 hours and filled the pool. So far it's 95% better than before! Now that I can finally keep the water level up to the skimmers, I can finally run the pump . Once we get a clear pool, I will dye test everything around the tile line, the skimmer box, and those pesky hairline cracks, just to make sure. Interestingly, in posting this on this and a few other forums, I don't recall anyone suggesting a look at the tile line. Thankfully, numerous folks did suggest having a look at the interface between the skimmers and the structure. It's a great relief so far, though I know I will have to keep an eye on things, and maybe later cut out the silicone and replace it with grout!

I'm a novice at this so I hope someone can kindly help with a few basic questions. Have a large gunite pool with sand filter. I've got the pump running and filtering. Shocked the 40,000 gal pool today with 4 lb of Lowes shock. The faint green is now more blueish though cloudy. So far, so good! 1. Our temp here is about 60 and the water temp is likely more like 50. How long does shock usually last and when to I begin regular chlorinating. 2. This is a vacation house and I live 3 hrs away. Is it ok to let a pump run for a week without backwashing (since that's when I will return). I have a large sand filter and it usually runs at about 18psi. If that's too long I'll just have to turn it off until I return next weekend. 3. I'v never backwashed before. About how long do you run it in backwash, and how long rinse? Am I right that when you back wash you open the valve on the pvc waste pipe at the same time? It's a standard multi-port valve on the filter, and I can't recall if it has a separate setting for backwash and a separate setting for waste. Many thanks. sorry I know so little, though I'll know a lot more after the first time!

My pump is out of service due to some major re-piping. Curious if any Pros or others have ever tried to shock a green pool with the pump off? Will it work? My water level is drained down 30" for the winter and I want to get the water clear for some leak testing on the pool structure. Please let me know if you have succeeded at turning a pool from green to clear with no circulation? tips appreciated!

Hi Scott, Thanks for the additional tips. I think I just didn't communicate well. So keeping the record straight....... I'm filling in some of the past info........ From the original post, "I have a large 10 yr old gunite pool which has been leaking for some time, however with the moderate earthquake in Va last year, it has been leaking more. About 2-3" overnight. Leaking stops about 6" below the normal water level." Then from the second post, "All of the observed 6-7 cracks start about 4-6" below the normal water surface" ........and ....."The cracks are spread around the pool maybe 10' apart." (maybe really closer to 15') What we've needed here is good communication, and now that we're on the same page, we can make progress! As for the next step, it's looking like filling water and dye testing. There seems to be little doubt that we'll save for later any back fill which may be required, any mud jacking to re-level, or exposing even a larger area to reveal any broken rebar, since right now we don't know if any of that exists. Thanks for hanging in there!

Thanks for the latest post! I am sure that all posters are here to try to help others. Obviously no one is receiving compensation, and I agree that it is extremely kind for posters to help others!!!! Any tips or suggestions are very much appreciated!!! The latest, and much appreciated suggestion is to take the next logical step. I had proposed exactly that and really had originally just asked for suggestions if folks on this forum thought should try to caulk or cut out and fill those tiny cracks before refilling the pool and doing the dye tests ! Here's the area where I get a little off track: Since this pool stops leaking at around 6" below it's normal level, don't we want to focus on 6" and above? I'm sure that Scott is a solid contributor here, and has helped lots of folks! Nonetheless, I'm having a little trouble understanding the statement, "A diver can't determine with a dye test there the cracks are letting water out." Doesn't that depend on the elevation of the crack? Possibly he is referring to any portion of a crack which may lie below the water table. At that depth, I can see the reasoning, however these cracks are above the water table and current pool water level. Given that - a dye test should confirm a leak once refilled. Right? The pool is drained down for the winter to 30" from the top and that exposes all of all known cracks. If they were above the water table, and penetrated through the shell, I would have incoming water. Right? At the moment they are dry. Here's the other place I get off track: Scott mentioned, " It tells me that the cracks go around at least one end and that the settlement may require a professional engineer for both soils and the cement that makes up the shell. 30 inches is a lot of water." Sure enough, there are 1-2 cracks on each end and each side of this pool. They're pretty much evenly spaced around. They are not on just one end etc. If there has been settlement, it's not apparent yet, as there are no other cracks, nor sagging concrete. ( I agree that could come) I think there may have been a small misunderstanding. Since this pool stops leaking at about 6" below the normal level, that's pretty close to the top of any of the vertical cracks - so the cracks may be involved, and also may not be. I mentioned that I have drained the pool down to 30", in the OP. Given that, I will continue to focus 6" and above - especially at the tile line with 116 linear feet of exposure. Once I get through all that, it may be time for a geotech or structural guy - but only if i can prove leaks in the cracks. For what it's worth, I don't mid finding that the leak is at the tile line or that there is an entire structural failure. Whatever it is, I will have to deal with it. I just want to be sure I don't get ahead of myself or overlook anything. I feel sure that everyone can agree with that approach, so maybe we are all on the same page after all !

Sure, it could be that there is a problem with the pool shell, and it could be that soil behind the pool walls or beneath the pool has weakened or eroded. Likewise it is possible that none of the 6-7 tiny vertical cracks is even a leak! Many times hairline cracks in the plaster occur, due to either a bad plaster mix, insufficient adhesion to the shell due to improper prep, and an improper curing process of the plaster once it's installed, among other possibilities. Even plaster age can be a factor as some report plaster replacement between 10 and 20 years, though often longer. So before we sound the alarm bells, we need to see if the cracks are a source of a leak. The only question we're focused on right now is whether to temporarily repair the plaster with caulk etc. while the water level is down and the plaster is dry, or to refill the pool first and then do the dye tests. All seasoned pool pros know that when you are doing leak detection, it's wise to never eliminate ANY possibility. At this point with this pool, there are still many unknowns: The leak(s) still could be in the tile at the water line, at the joint between the skimmer and the pool wall, or even anywhere below the water line as that's still obscured by the presently green water! If, and it's a big 'IF', the plaster cracks were caused by the minor earthquake centered 200 miles away, last August, we still need to see if the shell was affected. Clearly the plaster cracks may be in front of shell cracks, but it's possible they aren't. I'd say let's 'look before we leap' and make sure we've covered every possibility. In the mean time if other posters have ideas on what to use to temporarily patch the plaster that would be a great help. It would also be helpful to hear the pros and cons of trying the repairs now before refiling vs, doing them later if the dye tests don't show leaks at the plaster cracks. PS. If any visitors to this forum want to see a Dramatic Pool Structural failure, here is a link to pics which will take your breath away! It is a catastrophic loss and a tragedy for the homeowner/victims. http://ths.gardenweb...6492617054.html

The pool only leaks down 4-6" below its normal level on its own. The 30" reduced water level is just due to winterizing. I wish I had pics but I'm 200 miles away. If I had pics, you would see the faintest cracks imaginable. As I mentioned, you can't catch a fingernail on them. They are true hairline cracks as thin as a human hair! As mentioned, they are more or less vertical and stop about 30" deep at the deepest.. They are kind of spaced every 10-20' around the perimeter walls, with about 2 per wall - but not close to each other. Don't know yet what's on the bottom because it's green. At the end of last season we did not see anything. Right now my plan is to patch or fill them, then add water in a few weeks, and then dye test them to see what we have! My question for now, is just - what's the best way to fill or repair these ultra fine cracks. ? Vulkem 116, Silicone, other? Temporarily, would it be best to try to fill or skim over them, or should I try to cut a notch with a diamond blade to give me more to fill? (keeping in mind we aren't sure yet if they are leakers.) Many thanks for any tips!

The cracks are spread around the pool maybe 10' apart. All the cracks are vertical, and on the sides of the pool. The pool is drained down about 30" and I can't see below that because it's green right now. All of the observed 6-7 cracks start about 4-6" below the normal water surface and extend down about 12-20" and then they stop. Not sure of the interior surface, but from what I can tell it's some kind of plaster. Up close it looks like tiny gray stone granules. Before I learned of the typical plaster lining, I first thought the tiny gray granules were the gunite itself Nominally it's considered a black pool, but truly it's dark gray. Possibly it's not plaster? Not sure of the other choices. Would offer pics, except the pool is 200 miles away on the outer banks of NC. maybe later.... I have no access to the pool builder or the original plans due to it's age of about 10 years.

I have a large 10 yr old gunite pool which has been leaking for some time, however with the moderate earthquake in Va last year, it has been leaking more. About 2-3" overnight. Leaking stops about 6" below the normal water level. All of the skimmer and return lines have been pressure tested. No leaks found at main drain, pool light, or in or around skimmer boxes. There is no equalizing valve. At this point we're down to 6-7 vertical hairline cracks in the sidewalls at various places. They are so fine you can't get a fingernail to catch. The cracks start about 4" from the normal water height and are 12-20" in length. If we have covered all usual potential leaks, we're just left to wonder about those cracks, and can imagine that at least in theory, they could be leaking that much. If others think that amount of leaking from these cracks is possible, what's the best repair process to follow which will not be unsightly? Thanks for any tips!

Hey... there aren't any dumb questions. Not sure this kind poster, attempting to help, fully understood our particular problem. We have no problem maintaining temp. The problem is that the filter pump runs all them time. The heater properly cycles on and off as needed. So my spa friends.....what could cause this filter pump to run all the time? The Lite Leader by Balboa does not allow the user to program the filtration cycle except between 2 generic choices with a jumper position. Anybody know if with this control, whether the filter cycle would start immediately upon powering up, or if it would wait the 12 hrs, etc? Temp control, and indication of temp, seems fine, so would that rule out both sensors? And yes, the little red light does come on when the heat is cycled on! The filter cycle begins approx 1 minute after start up. I understand your issue- but I try not to assume to know what "maintaining heat" means to you, so I asked for an approx temp. It would also help to know the ambient temp- as this spa is able to "maintain heat" in warm climates simply by running all the time- with the heater never being energized. It would rule out a few possibilities... The spa suns just as you describe- it runs thermostatically, as well as 2 hours every 12 hours, with a purge cycle lasting a minute or so every 24 hours. Try pressing a temp button, then whie the "set" temp is flashing, press the pump or "jets" button just once. What do you see? If you see anything other than F 2, then keep hitting the temp button until you get to F 2. (you have F2, F4, F6, F8, and FC if memory serves correct) F2 is typically the default setting. If it's running constantly, and still maintaining heat- it's going to be one of the issues I described initially- but if you want help diagnosing yourself, you're going to have to check that little heat indicator light on the topside, as well as take a mental note of if it's in a filtration cycle, or be handy with a meter. If it's running too much (and set to F2)- you really need to observe the tiny heat indicator light, and see if it's on or off, the current temp, and the set temp, several times during the day. For the record- your temp sensors are fine, the circuitboard is interpreting the readings from the temp sensors properly, and the low speed relay on the circuitboard is fine. If you had a thermistor (temp sensor) issue, or thermostat issue, the spa would not be displaying an accurate temp. The simple fact that it's displaying an accurate temp tells us the sensors and thermostat are fine. If the low speed relay was sticky, then when you energized high speed, the pump would make a horrible sound, overheat, and shut down in seconds. Your issue is most likely an intermittant pressure switch, or a bad harness, or just a dirty filter than slows down the flow just enough to cycle the heat on/off when it should be steadily on. Assuming you don't live in a warm climate, that is. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the first reply. If the red heat light is on all the time when it's running, the heater is either bad, the wiring damaged, or the heater relay on the board is bad. Is the spa wired for 120 or 240v? This unit is wired 240v. The heat light only comes on when the heater is pulling 19 amps at 240v. Otherwise the heat light is off. The low speed current draw is 3 amps at 240 or about 600 watts. The heater is capable of increasing the water temp from 80 to 100 degrees with no problem, if you don;t mind waiting. If the pressure switch was intermittent, the heater operation would be intermittent as aren't the two are interdependent? The heater runs steadily when called for, A dirty filter might be possible, however the heating process seems flawless. Heater light is not on all the time. Heater relay pulls in and holds during even long heater cycles. Not sure that this model has the F2, F4 etc settings, as it's just a two button control. I followed the suggestion about hitting the several buttons, but even if you got a different F setting, I don;t see that it would matter much. They tell me at Balboa that you only have two choices on filter duration and those are controlled by placement of a jumper. My sole concern is figuring out how to get this unit to not run on low speed 24/7 !!!!!! For what it's worth, the Balboa factory tech says it's either a bad board or a bad low speed relay which is stuck. It makes no loud sound if you move from low speed to high speed. From the prior post, I gather that a loud sound might be made if the control is energizing both the low speed and the high speed windings in this single motor. If true, the Balboa tech guys then might be wrong. I'm about a day away from trying a new board, but I really hate to do it on a 7 year old spa! It still leaves me trying to figure out the problem!

Curious if anyone knows if Hoser ever got the answer he sought, and if his only problem was that the board started up in a filter cycle, upon power up? I have the same condition, as it seems the filter pump is running always, but not sure. It could just be the filter cycle...can't tell.

Hey... there aren't any dumb questions. Not sure this kind poster, attempting to help, fully understood our particular problem. We have no problem maintaining temp. The problem is that the filter pump runs all them time. The heater properly cycles on and off as needed. So my spa friends.....what could cause this filter pump to run all the time? The Lite Leader by Balboa does not allow the user to program the filtration cycle except between 2 generic choices with a jumper position. Anybody know if with this control, whether the filter cycle would start immediately upon powering up, or if it would wait the 12 hrs, etc? Temp control, and indication of temp, seems fine, so would that rule out both sensors? And yes, the little red light does come on when the heat is cycled on!

We have a Balboa Spa with a "Lite Leader" control. It runs properly, maintains temp properly, however the filter pump never cuts off. It is supposed to shut off, as it always has before...until now. It only has the 2 button top control...and is non-programable. 1 button is for either jets or filter, the other button is for temp and that's it! Suggestions appreciated. Is there a way to bypass the temp sensor and the over temp sensor. I could not tell on this model if they are normally open or normally closed, of if they work in some other way.

We have a 30,000 gal in ground pool with a 1 hp hayward super pump and a sand filter. Drawing only from the 2 skimmers we get no air visible in the pump housing during operation, but when we open the main drain inlet to the pump with the skimmers open too, we get a flood of air bubbles - really a torrent. 1. I know it seems obvious that there may be a break or a crack in the main drain line between the bottom of the pool and that diverter valve just before the pump intake, but is there any other possible explanation? There are no known water leaks or unexplained water loss. With no water loss wouldn't that suggest that the main drain line is intact - at least up to the pool top water level? 2. If you can keep the pool clean just drawing from the skimmer baskets, do you really need to open the main drain during normal operation? Thanks for any expert tips!