beefshrimp

Why do all topics that shed light on VIKING POOLS and the LIES they tell keep getting removed?.........Does VIKING own this forum?...or is it the moderator is a VIKING employee?

Call The Pool and Spa Store......they are an hour north of Charlotte and they install Tallman Fiberglass Pools 336-751-7946

Call The Pool and Spa Store......they are an hour north of Charlotte and they install Tallman Fiberglass Pools 336-751-7946

Try calling The Pool and Spa Store 336-751-7946.......They are in NC and offer factory direct pricing....They also do all work in house......NO SUBS

Call the Pool and spa store..........they are located in North Carolina and will give you the best price on an above ground pool 336-751-7946

VE resin is an epoxy/polyester based product. It was utilized in the anti- corrosion field in refinerys, chemical plants, quench areas, tank linings, & in the early 70's made it's way into the F/G yacht & offshore racing boat biz. It is used for several reasons including incredible chemical resistance, flexural properties, & anti osmatic qualities. It was first used on F/G pools in the USA in the mid 70's. This product literally is the main reason the F/G pool industry is as successful as it is today. Pools that are made with lesser types of resins are almost a sure bet to have issues at some unknown time in their service life. Gel coat back in the old days was a general purpose product used on camper tops, cars, boats, etc. Today most pool makers use a product specifically made for immersion service, pool chemicals, & have ultra violet stabilizers to reduce the threat of fading. Extensive testing under lab conditions have been available for over 3 decades that continue to confirm that a swimming pool grade gel coat along with a true[not blended] VE resin is a combination that is almost 100% foolproof. Let's face the facts, yachts costing 10's of millions of $$$ are basically constructed of the exact same materials as most of todays F/G pools. The tail section{as well as many other parts] of commercial planes are basically constructed of the exact same materials as today's F/G pools. Think about that the next time you get a Coke & bag of peanuts on the way to Vegas!! Lastly, also think about all the F/G that is protecting OUR BRAVE MEN & WOMAN in uniform in far away lands. The armored vest they wear & the bullet proof frames in the many vehicles they ride off to battle the bad guys in are basically made of the exact same materials as today's F/G pools. Dorway.......You are spot on with your resonse........I couldnt of explained it better myself.....Thank you for the professional response......The factory that started the use of vinyl ester is still producing high quality fiberglass pools out of the same location they started in back in 1972 with the same name,address,phone #,and owner.....and they have NEVER FILED FOR BANKRUPTCY........i guess being the biggest isnt always the best........its no different than the fact that there are more Hyundais on the highway than Benz's ....... the only difference is less people appreciate quality over quantity.........I think ill stick with my S CLASS............

sorry my caps offended you.......but does anyone know the answer to my question??????????

OK ........HERES MY QUESTION..............WAS THE INTRODUCTION OF VINYL ESTER RESIN IN FIBERGLASS POOL CONSTRUCTION THE CURE FOR COBALTING AND BLISTERING???????? WHO WAS THE FIRST MANUFACTURER TO USE IT????????? IT SEEMS TO BE THE ONLY ELEMENT THAT ALL FIBERGLASS POOLS HAVE IN COMMON REGARDLESS OF BRAND NAME OR MANUFACTURER..........ANYONE KNOW WHO THE INDUSTRY OWES KUDOS TO FOR THIS BEING MADE THE STANDARD IN FIBERGLASS POOLS????????

SO.......POOLSPADUDE I GUESS YOU DONT MEET THE ABOVE REQUIREMENTS ?.......IM JUST SAYING YOUR MIGHTY DEFENSIVE..........ARE THESE REQIREMENTS TO HIGH?................WHAT DO YOU THINK QUALIFIES AN INSTALLER AS BEING A TOP RANKED INSTALLER? Why is 15 years the magic number for experience? I have 11 years of hands on experience but I also have a background in construction engineering and hydraulic engineering. So the 15 year minimum doesn't make sense. My pools are built better than guys that have been doing this for 30 years. You dont have to make fiberglass repairs if you install it correctly. Making sure you build on solid ground and have proper bottom preparation will insure a crack free pool. I have not encountered half the soil conditions you stated. Yet I am building a pool half on land and half in a lake this summer. I have never done this before, so I am working with the best soil and structural engineers and an incredible architect. Its not necessarily what you know but sometimes who you know. My pools are level within an 1/8''. Install a pool in one day? You kidding me. Half of my projects are between $100,000 to 150,000. To a certain extent speed is important, but to say its a measure of quality, is obsurd. I am pretty sure that when my competitors are bidding against me, they are trying to get the job, I would be shocked if they told the homeowner to go with me instead of them. 8 and 10 are ok 9 is kind of ironic. How can you say you need to be able to show a pool that has been built 10 years ago? How do you sell that first pool, if you dont have any 10 year old pools in the ground? At some point in time we all were the new guys on the block. Selling of at least 300 pools. It doesnt matter if those 300 pools were installed wrong. That means no flex pvc pipe, no 1.5'' plumbing pipe, at least a 3'' main drain line, at least 2'' return lines, and properly sizing your pumps. This falls into 9's response. Also volume does not mean quality. I would rather build 15 $100,000 pools a year, than 30 $35,000 pools. I understand what your point is. You're tired of the new guys coming in with no experience and a cheap price taking jobs away from you. We all deal with. The only way to combat that is to show value to the consumer and show that you are the local professional that actually knows what their doing. Nick........thank you for your PROFESSIONAL response i can appreciate your points made and im sure your a TOP INSTALLER. I most certainly was refering to green horns doing more talking than installing.......by saying install a pool in a day i ment a cookie cutter not the elaborate custom pools you are building that DO require more time and attention to detail. I also truly appreciate your ability to admit that when you dont know something you hire somebody that does........... Wow guys, this has been a fun thread thus far, love the passion! First of all, I'd like to give you props Beef for even being concerned enough to come up with a post like this. I think you make legitimate points, but at the same rate, I don't agree with a few. I would say though that it would be great to have more standards in the fiberglass pool industry. The manufacturers actually tried to initiate this once upon a time but 'he-who-shall-not-be-named' poo-pooped the whole thing....Like you Beef, my company has installed multiple brands. But I actually wish this was not true. The reason why we've installed multiple brands is because it took us 7 years to really find a company we absolutely loved due to their quality. In other words, had we started with Leisure we likely would have never had to repair a crack. But because we started with Viking, we had to repair cracks all the time. It's no coincidence that we've had zero structural issues with one company and nothing but problems with the previous. Also, I do not feel that time in the industry means anything as a metric. I think it more has to do w/ number of installs. I say this because we've installed about 600 pools in roughly 9 years. Compared to the guy that's installed 400 pools over 20 years, who has more experience?.....In terms of sales persons, I don't agree with your thoughts because that would be like saying you had to of played football to coach it. Fact is, many NFL coaches never even played highschool ball, but this does not make their product knowledge less inferior.....But I repeat Beef what I mentioned earlier-- Your passion is great for the industry and I frankly wish a lot more people were a lot like you. poolspadude no one is blocking your replies . you were able to complain werent you? POOLSPADUDE I WOULD SAY IM BEING BLOCKED TOO...........IF I DIDNT WANT TO BACK UP MY STATEMENTS WITH FACTS.......TIME TO FOLD...YOUR BLUFFS BEEN CALLED

SO.......POOLSPADUDE I GUESS YOU DONT MEET THE ABOVE REQUIREMENTS ?.......IM JUST SAYING YOUR MIGHTY DEFENSIVE..........ARE THESE REQIREMENTS TO HIGH?................WHAT DO YOU THINK QUALIFIES AN INSTALLER AS BEING A TOP RANKED INSTALLER? Why is 15 years the magic number for experience? I have 11 years of hands on experience but I also have a background in construction engineering and hydraulic engineering. So the 15 year minimum doesn't make sense. My pools are built better than guys that have been doing this for 30 years. You dont have to make fiberglass repairs if you install it correctly. Making sure you build on solid ground and have proper bottom preparation will insure a crack free pool. I have not encountered half the soil conditions you stated. Yet I am building a pool half on land and half in a lake this summer. I have never done this before, so I am working with the best soil and structural engineers and an incredible architect. Its not necessarily what you know but sometimes who you know. My pools are level within an 1/8''. Install a pool in one day? You kidding me. Half of my projects are between $100,000 to 150,000. To a certain extent speed is important, but to say its a measure of quality, is obsurd. I am pretty sure that when my competitors are bidding against me, they are trying to get the job, I would be shocked if they told the homeowner to go with me instead of them. 8 and 10 are ok 9 is kind of ironic. How can you say you need to be able to show a pool that has been built 10 years ago? How do you sell that first pool, if you dont have any 10 year old pools in the ground? At some point in time we all were the new guys on the block. Selling of at least 300 pools. It doesnt matter if those 300 pools were installed wrong. That means no flex pvc pipe, no 1.5'' plumbing pipe, at least a 3'' main drain line, at least 2'' return lines, and properly sizing your pumps. This falls into 9's response. Also volume does not mean quality. I would rather build 15 $100,000 pools a year, than 30 $35,000 pools. I understand what your point is. You're tired of the new guys coming in with no experience and a cheap price taking jobs away from you. We all deal with. The only way to combat that is to show value to the consumer and show that you are the local professional that actually knows what their doing. Nick........thank you for your PROFESSIONAL response i can appreciate your points made and im sure your a TOP INSTALLER. I most certainly was refering to green horns doing more talking than installing.......by saying install a pool in a day i ment a cookie cutter not the elaborate custom pools you are building that DO require more time and attention to detail. I also truly appreciate your ability to admit that when you dont know something you hire somebody that does........... Wow guys, this has been a fun thread thus far, love the passion! First of all, I'd like to give you props Beef for even being concerned enough to come up with a post like this. I think you make legitimate points, but at the same rate, I don't agree with a few. I would say though that it would be great to have more standards in the fiberglass pool industry. The manufacturers actually tried to initiate this once upon a time but 'he-who-shall-not-be-named' poo-pooped the whole thing....Like you Beef, my company has installed multiple brands. But I actually wish this was not true. The reason why we've installed multiple brands is because it took us 7 years to really find a company we absolutely loved due to their quality. In other words, had we started with Leisure we likely would have never had to repair a crack. But because we started with Viking, we had to repair cracks all the time. It's no coincidence that we've had zero structural issues with one company and nothing but problems with the previous. Also, I do not feel that time in the industry means anything as a metric. I think it more has to do w/ number of installs. I say this because we've installed about 600 pools in roughly 9 years. Compared to the guy that's installed 400 pools over 20 years, who has more experience?.....In terms of sales persons, I don't agree with your thoughts because that would be like saying you had to of played football to coach it. Fact is, many NFL coaches never even played highschool ball, but this does not make their product knowledge less inferior.....But I repeat Beef what I mentioned earlier-- Your passion is great for the industry and I frankly wish a lot more people were a lot like you. poolspadude no one is blocking your replies . you were able to complain werent you?

SO.......POOLSPADUDE I GUESS YOU DONT MEET THE ABOVE REQUIREMENTS ?.......IM JUST SAYING YOUR MIGHTY DEFENSIVE..........ARE THESE REQIREMENTS TO HIGH?................WHAT DO YOU THINK QUALIFIES AN INSTALLER AS BEING A TOP RANKED INSTALLER? Why is 15 years the magic number for experience? I have 11 years of hands on experience but I also have a background in construction engineering and hydraulic engineering. So the 15 year minimum doesn't make sense. My pools are built better than guys that have been doing this for 30 years. You dont have to make fiberglass repairs if you install it correctly. Making sure you build on solid ground and have proper bottom preparation will insure a crack free pool. I have not encountered half the soil conditions you stated. Yet I am building a pool half on land and half in a lake this summer. I have never done this before, so I am working with the best soil and structural engineers and an incredible architect. Its not necessarily what you know but sometimes who you know. My pools are level within an 1/8''. Install a pool in one day? You kidding me. Half of my projects are between $100,000 to 150,000. To a certain extent speed is important, but to say its a measure of quality, is obsurd. I am pretty sure that when my competitors are bidding against me, they are trying to get the job, I would be shocked if they told the homeowner to go with me instead of them. 8 and 10 are ok 9 is kind of ironic. How can you say you need to be able to show a pool that has been built 10 years ago? How do you sell that first pool, if you dont have any 10 year old pools in the ground? At some point in time we all were the new guys on the block. Selling of at least 300 pools. It doesnt matter if those 300 pools were installed wrong. That means no flex pvc pipe, no 1.5'' plumbing pipe, at least a 3'' main drain line, at least 2'' return lines, and properly sizing your pumps. This falls into 9's response. Also volume does not mean quality. I would rather build 15 $100,000 pools a year, than 30 $35,000 pools. I understand what your point is. You're tired of the new guys coming in with no experience and a cheap price taking jobs away from you. We all deal with. The only way to combat that is to show value to the consumer and show that you are the local professional that actually knows what their doing. Nick........thank you for your PROFESSIONAL response i can appreciate your points made and im sure your a TOP INSTALLER. I most certainly was refering to green horns doing more talking than installing.......by saying install a pool in a day i ment a cookie cutter not the elaborate custom pools you are building that DO require more time and attention to detail. I also truly appreciate your ability to admit that when you dont know something you hire somebody that does...........

SO.......POOLSPADUDE I GUESS YOU DONT MEET THE ABOVE REQUIREMENTS ?.......IM JUST SAYING YOUR MIGHTY DEFENSIVE..........ARE THESE REQIREMENTS TO HIGH?................WHAT DO YOU THINK QUALIFIES AN INSTALLER AS BEING A TOP RANKED INSTALLER?

I have been reading alot of topics and comments that all agree when it comes to fiberglass pools the installer is the most important part My question is this ..........WHAT QUALIFICATIONS CONSTITUTE A TOP INSTALLER? The following is a list of things i feel a fiberglass pool installer must be able to say ( AND PROVE) in order to call themselves a TOP INSTALLER 1. HAVE OVER 15 YRS. INSTALLATION EXPERIENCE AS LEAD INSTALLER ( NOT DITCH DIGGER OR HELPER BUT LEAD INSTALLER) 2. BE ABLE TO SAY YOU HAVE INSTALLED AT LEAST 5 DIFFERENT BRANDS OF FIBERGLASS POOLS ( THIS ALLOWS YOU TO ACTUALLY BE QUALIFIED AS TO THE DIFFERENCES IN QUALITY.......NOT JUST SAYING WHAT A SALES REP FILLS YOUR HEAD WITH) 3. BE ABLE TO MAKE ALL KINDS OF FIBERGLASS REPAIRS ( STRUCTURAL AS WELL AS COSMETIC) THAT ARE UNDETECTABLE BY THE HOMEOWNER 4. BE ABLE TO SAY THEY HAVE ENCOUNTERED ALL TYPES OF GROUND CONDITIONS AND CAN HANDLE THEM WITH EASE (WATER,ROCK,SAND,CLAY,PLASTIC DIRT,BOG) 5. BE ABLE TO SAY YOU CAN LEVEL A POOL WITH IN A 1/4 " ALL AROUND 6. BE ABLE TO INSTALL A POOL IN 1 DAY ( AND I MEAN READY FOR CONCRETE) 7. BE ABLE TO HAVE AT LEAST 10 COMPETITORS OR INDUSTRY PROFESSIONALS SAY THAT YOUR THE PERSON THEY WOULD PICK TO INSTALL THEIR POOL. 8. BE ABLE TO REALIZE AND UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FIBERGLASS MATERIALS AND FILLERS 9. BE ABLE TO SHOW A POOL THEY INSTALLED 10 OR MORE YEARS AGO THAT ISNT CRACKED OR OFF LEVEL( ANYTHING MORE THAN 3/4" END TO END OR 1/2" SIDE TO SIDE IS NOT LEVEL) 10. BE ABLE TO ADMIT YOUR PAST BAD INSTALLATIONS AND CUSTOMER MISTAKES.........................AND TRUTHFULLY SAY YOU LEARNED FROM THEM AGREE????????? DISAGREE???????? SOMETHING TO ADD?????????? LET ME KNOW MAYBE WE SHOULD START A FIBERGLASS INSTALLERS ASSOCIATION ......AND ANY INSTALLER THAT CAN PROVE THE ABOVE 10 ITEMS(MAYBE MORE) WILL BE CERTIFIED AS A MASTER INSTALLER.........THIS WAY HOMEOWNERS WILL KNOW IF THEY HAVE A TOP MASTER INSTALLER IN THEIR BACKYARD OR JUST ROOKIE WITH A YEARNING TO MAKE THE HOMEOWNERS BACKYARD THEIR CLASSROOM ********* ONE MORE THING.....I DONT BELIEVE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO SELL A FIBERGLASS POOL UNLESS YOU HAVE INSTALLED AT LEAST 300 POOLS FIRST...........YOU CANT ANSWER HOMEOWNERS QUESTIONS ABOUT INSTALLATION IF YOU HAVE NEVER OPENED UP A CAN OF GLUE........... THANK YOU ALL AND I LOOK FORWARD TO ALL THE RESPONSES