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Hobie

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  1. I have removed the 1"pvc insert that is about 1" too short. From what I can discern, he included the jet cap in his measurement. I have ordered new pieces and new jets. As far as the return plumbing, a manifold is a difficult thing to plumb to the Waterway system. I have cut into the water supply line 2 places and that should be the best I can do for a manifold. My kids(helpers) and I dug about a 5' deep x 4' x 4' hole. My 8year old son loves this<G>. There were 3 pipes running under the spa. 1 for the drains, 1 for the spa bubbler and 1 for the SVRS(BTW, the pool line also has it's own SVRS pipe). The SVRS line ties in about 6-12" from the spa drain T. I cut the above ground SVRS/vent pipe and it does vent into the spa drain. I am unable to get any closer than 30" from the spa drain T so I am stuck with Spa drains 3'10" apart and midway a T (2"pipe). The SVRS pickoff is about 6-12" from that T. The pipe is right next to the gunite so I am planning on living with 30" of 2" and then expand into 3" to the pump. I found 2 medium landscaping rocks in the pipe. As far as the blower. It has never worked very well either. The water has backflowed through the blower checkvalve. I removed it and capped it for the present. I will hook it up to blow out the water before I bury the pipes. None of the information I have posted had the blower working. Tomarrow I will dig trenches for all the spa, vac and pad excavation. Then I will cut all pvc from heaters, filters and pumps. Then replumb with 2 1/2 pvc and all sweep elbows. Everything is ordered except the Jandy epump and the Jandy Aqualink firmware upgrade. I will hook up the Hayward NS pumps with a 15/16" shim underneath for the proper height so the inlet is the proper height. The outlet is easy to replumb after I get the new pump. I figure that way flow rates and other information can be decided to make sure the Epump is the right pump for me. A question. Since I have the Waterway Mini jet(5 jet at 10gpm each), and flow is only 10gpm, 30" of 2" pipe prior to expanding to 3' to pump should not be a problem. Trying to get closer would pose a HUGE chore! Steve
  2. The blower is located with the other equipment at the pad. The Waterway mini jets are plumbed with 2"pvc and the air is injected at the same point. All the jet nozzles are there but the supply tube is about 1" too short. Also as I dig down I found anothe 4 elbow plumbed end to end. Who knows what I will find next. I plan on putting 3"pvc suction and return and see how it operates. Then plumb in the SVRS and then redo the pad plumbing.
  3. Well, one problem sorted out. Regarding the spa jets the instructions specifically say lenght of internal pipe. Apparently the installer either cannot read or cannot measure(possibly both). He cut the pipe 1 inch too short which will not allow jets to spin properly. Also looking at the flow out of each jet, I think a manifold would be a good idea in order to assure equal flow from each individual jet. Now the fun part. Digging......
  4. The next couple of days I intend to check on those issues. When I have more infomation I will post again. Thanks Steve
  5. So if I understand you correctly, 1. The plumbing at 2" for 95" and 15 elbows(both suction and return), the spa will not physically operate, regardless of some other possible leak or blockage. 2. Therefore, I need to replumb to a larger pipe for suction and return. 3. For energy savings and life of my epuipment I need a a 2 speed or variable speed pump. The variable speed epump will allow the exact rpm to operate the pool recirculation and spa flow for equipment specifications(flow rate through filter and aquapure in recirculation mode and heater and flow needs in spa mode). There is not a need to operate the pump at full capacity is there? A 2 speed pump might not be the proper curves for my plumbing, equipment and/or spa jet requirements. The extra performce of the pump should allow me to change spa jets to a higher flow requirement if I desire. Essentially replumb then with the flowmeter adjust pump rpm to give proper flow rates for each configuration. 4. Since I believe that I must replumb the system, the cost of increasing the size of pvc and fittings is minimal and should be recovered long term with a reduced electrical drain(reduced rpm) on the epump. I live in Florida and it is only a matter of time untill the electric rates trend upward towards California's rates. This spa has been such a huge dissapointment and bother since it was built. I don't mind overengineering things so that I know it will work and I will never have another problem with it. I only want to do this once. Thank you again all your help, guidance and expertise. I along with others really do appreciate it. Steve
  6. That is a good way to do the bypass. Thankyou. As far as the blower in the plans. There is no mention of how it is to be connected but the Waterway diagram does appear to be what I have. I will research a little more when I get home.
  7. Bypassing the heaters are ok but if I bypass the filter and salt cell when I leave spa mode, what is the best way to route water back through the filter and salt cell when the pump returns to a low flow(Jandy epump)? Currently I think they are plumbed together. When I dig then I will see how to plumb to a manifold. I don't recall how the blower is plumbed. It never really worked either. I guess I shall see how he plumbed it when I dig it up. I will put as much space between the elbows as possible. If I can find decent pricing on sweep elbows that is what I will use as much as possible. That should help with turbulance issues as much as possible. Looking at the Waterway catalog I think I have teh Mini Gunite jets. With that system it shows the body accepts 2"pvc and reduces it to 1.5" to the jet. I have been unable to find a manifold that accepts 3" in and 2" out.
  8. It appears that it is beginning to come together. I plan to start digging this week and upgrade pipe and pump. Things I plan to change: 1. Spa plumbing suction to 4" and return to 3". Large Jandy 3way never lube and 3" to pump. 2. 2.5" on pool vac line and skimmer line. 3. 2.5" from pump to filter, heaters, Aquapure 4. Bypass on both heaters. 5. New drain covers on pool and spa 6. New Waterway spa mini-jets 7. See if I can tie in existing SVRS system to spa suction, otherwise check on Vac-Alert 8. Install Blue-White F300 on 2.5" pipe after filter and before heater. I will have dia x 10" before meter and dia x 4 after meter. 9. See how system runs with 2hp and 1 hp pump. Check pressures and determine which pump I get(I am leaning to the Jandy epump and firmware upgrade because of compatability issues and Mark's figures). I really do appreciate that. 10. What do you think of having spa return to a manifold and then to individual jets for even flow? Overkill or good idea? 11. Does it matter where spa blower joins the spa returns(near equipment or near spa)? Laminar flow issues? This is what I have put together from all your advice. Does this sound like a reasonable plan of action now or do you have any more advice or changes I should think of? I sure don't want to go through all of this and miss something just to save a couple of bucks. Just wanted to say thankyou again for everyones guidance and expertise. When plumbing the system is there any guidlines you might have? ie. elbow butted up to Jandy 3 way valve or sould there be a set amount of distance between joints? I plan to run 3" pipe to pump supply(suction) in the length of 5 x diameter(15").
  9. I have checked for air leaks around valves, fittings and the pump. No luck. Looking at the original plans I see there is a dual suction inlet system and atmospheric vent system. Due to the strong suction(long length and small pipe size), when in spa mode as the valve closes to 100% spa suction I immediately lose prime and basket is 1/2 full. That might be the problem(suction so great that it pulls from vent), I will check when I get home. Even if I have a stone or something in the line I now see the plans(and everything I have learned from all of you) that the pipe size is way too small for that long of a run(max flow rate, pump and spa jet requirements) enlarging the plumbing should take care of everything. I will not use flex pvc as I didn't want problems in the future. Using flex pvc on the corners allowed a shorter run, and using solid pvc will be closer to 95". Should I use 4" on suction side(for the majority of the run) and 3" on the return to the spa? A few extra dollars is worth it to me. I plan to change the 5 spa jets. Any recommendation of a good quality? A mix of spinning and others. Your recommendation of the Jandy Epump makes very good sense. I don't want compatability issues and hopefully with all the plumbing changes, it will be adequate for my system. Since I have a Jandy Aqualink rs-8(2 channels left) and all the actuators this is the cheapest for me. I will run the tests you recommend. Regarding the bypass valves for the heaters and salt cell. Are there automatic ones that work on flow(your idea of 40 gpm), or do I just use a ball valve to adjust it manually? Your idea of bypassing the filter and salt cell is interesting. Our house is the go to house for the neighborhood. Lots of kids and they love the spa. If the system can I would like to keep both due to the load water. With the original plans having the vent system, I might retain that. Otherwise the Vac-Alert would be nice.
  10. I have 2 pumps. a Hayward NS 2hp for pool/spa and a Hayward NS 1 hp for the waterfall. A local pool professional said the 2hp was way too big and that all I needed was a 1hp. He also told me about how much I was spending on electric. I decided to swap the pumps around to see the effect(the same things happen with the 2hp btw). Everything I have been posting is since the 1hp is on the system. I just played with it again and notice that when I use the Hayward Navigator pool vac from a vac port, I am unable to draw only from the vacuum(I still need to utilise a small bit of skimmer) or I lose prime. If I pull from the skimmers the system works fine. From the main drains a small bit of air. From the skimmer only, it begins to cavitate, and spa is a total loss. So in addition to changing the spa suction(I will use 2" flexi pvc from each spa drain and bring together in 2x2x3 Y Wye joint) using 3"pvc and flexi pvc I can shorten run to 85'. The spa return will be similar but with 2.5 " The main drain and skimmer will always be used in combination so I can live with the main drain limitation. And increase the size of the vacuum line to 2.5" with a run o 59". If I use the Epump the unions are 2.5" so I also plan on changing the supply 3 way valve to a Jandy Large Neverlube. Everything on the outlet size is 2" so I will leave it 2" pipe untill after the salt cell . After the 3 way valve I will increase size to 2.5" to the spa return using 2.5" pvc and 2.5"flexi pvc for turns. Should I use Cpvc after the heater because of temperature issues? Looking back at the plans for the pool it even states that for 6fps flow max and 86' run I need 3" pipe. 118' run I need 4" pipe. I wish I had looked at the plans and watched him closer!
  11. Hello, Hello, I checked the pressure on ny system and this is what I found. 1 Everything open(all supply, heater selector, and returns) and the pump is now a Hayward NS 1.0 hp.(I switched the 2 and 1 hp around). Pressure on Hayward de72 is 15psi. When I returned all the flow to only the spa jets pressure increased to 20psi and jet performance was marginal at best. 2. When I went to spa mode and the valve was almost at the closed position the pump began to lose prime and when closed to spa side, the basket was about half full with lots of water coming in and pressure was now 14psi. Jet performance even worse. The jets are the ones you show. The adjustable and pulsator is what I have. Are they Waterway brand? All your recomendations look good. 1. I will replace the drain covers 2. Looking at my RS-8 it lookl like I have only 1 channel left. I know with the Epump I need the Aqualink firmware upgrade but I am getting conflicting info about if I also need the upgrade with the Pentair Intelliflo. If I go with the Jandy Epump it should interface OK. But if I go with the Pentair Intelliflo VS and the Intellicom 2, I believe that I need a channel for each speed I want. That would be only 2 speed as I understand the Jandy Aqualink/Pentair Intelliflo interaction. Still not clear on the interaction of Jandy Aqualink and Pentair Intelliflo. What would your choice be? 3. SVRS is something that sounds nice. Definately a pro in Pentair's corner but concerns of integration issues. Vac-Alert definately an option. 4. I have checked all drains( ran a snake through), looked for leaks and have found no problems. 5. I plan to replumb. Since the spa is the worst this is what I plan. Spa drain to be plumbed together with a T. 2"x2"x3". Run 3"pvc with sweep 90's as far as possible to pump. Plumb Aquacal H155 and Hayward h400 inline for effeciency. Plumb return to jets with 2.5" with sweep 90's and tie into spa jet return line at spa. Run will be bout 90 feet for both. 6. Put either Jandy Epump 2.0hp and firmware upgrade to P. Or Pentair Intelliflo VS or VF w/or w/o SVRS and Intellicom 2 to communicate to Aqualink RS-8. Still wonder what interfaces better. 7. Put Blue-White flow meter after pump(unless I get Intelliflo VF)
  12. My spa main drains are 3' 10" apart, center to center. The opening is 6" currently with sp 1048 covers. The pipe is 2" glued to the drain and then the 2 are teed together. I could dig under the spa and step up to 2.5" then 3" with a run to the pump about 90 feet and 1 T 4 elbows(or substitute 45 degrees for each elbow)and then 3 way valve to pump. Of course I need to step back down to 2" before the 3 way valve at the pump. For the return I could do essentially the same except jump to 2.5" for the length of run. Would a pump be able to handle this and is the spacing of the drains safe enough? Would you recommend I use the Jandy Epump or the Pentair Intelliflo svrs. I have Jandy Aqualink RS-8 with firmware L. With Jandy I need the upgrade firmware and with Pentair I lose features.
  13. 01) What is the design flow rate of the spa main drains (per drain)? If am not sure. 2 drains plumbed together. Same drain covers as pool(I will put the new covers on). I believe 2" pvc 02) What are the dimensions of the drains? 03) How far apart are the drains from each other (center to center)? 3' 04) What is the design flow rate of the spa jets (Minimum and Maximum per jet)? Not sure. 05) How many skimmers does the pool have? 2 06) How many main drains does the pool have? 4 all plumbed together 07) Does the fountain pull from its own dedicated main drain? no, I believe it was t'd off the main drain line 08) How old is the fountain pump? Is it ready to be replaced? Pumps are about 6 years old. Fountain had 1 hp that i just swapped with 2 hp. 1 hp pump is still good so I will replace 2hp. 09) What is the filter pressure when on Spa mode? When I go to spa mode, the pump begins to strain, the water gets milky and it cavitates and loses prime. The pressure drop to 5-10psi. 10) Are the spa drains Teed together and run to the equipment with a single 2-inch line or do they each have their own 2-inch line to the equipment? Unfortunately I believe they are teed together. 11) Are you considering the spill over to be the fountain or is there a separate fountain? I have a spa spillover to the pool and i also have a waterfall/groto that uses an individual 1hp pump. 12) What is the design flow rate of the fountain? not sure, whatever looks good. The 1hp is probably overkill there also. But it looks good. 13) Is the fountain designed to give a sheer sheet of water or does it cascade down rocks? 14) Are you happy with the performance of the fountain? It sounds like the spa suction plumbing is undersized, partially blocked and/or has an air leak. What happens to the pump when you switch to spa mode? Does the pump begin to strain and get loud? Yes, that is my problem. I need a complete redesign plan. Plumbing and pump. I am willing to do some inground pipe work and can access the spa lines with some work. I am quite handy and am capable of doing the labor but want to make sure the design is sound prior to doing all the digging. I will need to take the covers off the spa drains but I believe all work was done with 2" pvc. Jets are probably in the 15-20gpm range. I have a hayward DE72 filter, Aquacal H155 heat pump, hayward h400 gas heater, Jandy Aquapure 1400 and some Jandy 3 way valves in line also. When I replace the suction line of the spa to a larger diameter, is getting to within 2 feet of the spa adequate? Maybe for safety it would be a better idea to run a seperate line from each spa drain. A pain to dig under the spa but it would alleviate issues. Putting the spa on its own system is an option. You could use a two-speed pump for the spa. High speed for jets and low speed for circulation. You could put a separate filter and heater so that you could operate the spa separately and keep it hot so that you could use it whenever you want. You could use valves to share the pool heater with the spa if you didn't want to buy a separate heater. I don't mind my current setup of using 2 pumps(1 for pool/spa and 1 for waterfall) but if there is a better way to accomplish things I am not against changing things. I like the idea of using a 2 speed or variable speed pump to run the pool longer and slower. Then bump up speed for spa mode. Thanks for everything
  14. Can you provide the following information? 01) What suctions does the spa have? 2 spa drains plumbed by 2" run approximately 100" with about 15 or so elbows to a Jandy 3 valve and to 2HP pump 02) Does the spa have a skimmer? No 03) How many main drains does the spa have? 2 04) What are the dimensions of the spa main drains? 2" pvc with the same drain covers as pool. They are plumbed together 05) Is the spa at the same level as the pool? About 2' higher with spill over. 06) Does the spa spill over into the pool or is there an equalizer line that you plug to use the spa? Spill over 07) How important are the spa jets to you? Do they need to be strong? yes 08) Where does the 1 h.p waterfall pump get its water from? It received the water from the main drain line 09) How often do you want to use the spa? 2 times/week 10) When you switch to spa mode, do all of the valves turn completely? Yes, 3 way jandy valve with actuators 11) How did the plumbing end up with 15 elbows? Plumber initially put pipes side by side(5 or so abreast) right through a planter about 6" below ground. I told him they needed to be deeper. Also needed to plan for addition. Instead of digging all pipes deeper he just put extra elbows on to go under planter and planned addition. Hence 8 extra elbows. 12) How long do you run the pump each day? As of now 8 hours, I am willing to change to longer period if a 2 speed would allow equal or less electric usage and equal or better cleaning performance. 13) What are your electrical rates? 0.121/kWH 14) Are you in California? no 15. I am wondering if I should use 1 pump for pool/ spa bubbler/waterfall and other pump for spa jets? Thoughts?
  15. I forgot to ask. If I change to supply lines to the pump to a larger size do I also need to change to return to the spa/pool?
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