[Can't Get Ph Down]

Are you using a different source of bleach than in the past? You'll have to use acid to lower the pH and if that lowers the TA and you want it higher, then baking soda will raise the TA. If the source of the pH rise is from excess lye in the bleach, then the pH and TA would both rise though you might not notice the TA rise unless the pH went way up. So normally, adding acid to compensate for excess lye in bleach won't have the TA change much.

I also assume you don't have a lot more aeration now compared to before, right?

If all of this is just after a fresh refill, then don't worry about having to add acid to get the pH down and then some baking soda to get the TA where you want it. Just see what happens from this point forward after you've got things the way you want.

Thanks for the reply, you have to be the most helpful person on any forum.

I haven't gotten to the bleach part of the method yet. I'm only at 20 CYA on my way to 30, then I'll switch.

Does adding baking soda increase PH as well as TA?

If not, I'll get my PH down and adjust TA from there.

Thanks again

[Can't Get Ph Down]

I have been a loyal Dichlor-then-bleach user for over a year now and usually everything goes as planned.

Just did my Spring empty and refill, so I have a new tub of water.

My current readings are

CH 170

TA 50

PH who knows, but its a really deep read.

50ppm of Borates

I just tested it and these were my readings. PH has been high throughout the process.

Thinking high FC levels were giving me false PH readings, I let the FC drop to 1ppm, which is was 10 minutes ago

Buy my PH is still deep red. I'd guess 8.4 or more.

I don't want to add anymore PH down because I don't want my TA to go any lower.

Any thoughts?

425 gallon tub at 104 degrees.

[This Mornings Test Results]

Got up this morning and tested the water first thing:

pH: > 8.0

CH: 50

TA: 160

FAC: 1.0

CYA: 30 ppm

550 gals, 104 degrees F.

This was after about 1.5 hours of use last night. So obviously I need to add bisulfate to get pH down, but should I add some calcium to raise CH as well? I also added borax to approx 50 ppm borates based on the poolcalculator.com results.

You need to get TA down to 40-80.

Lowering TA will lower PH.

Use Nitro's aeration method once PH gets down to 7.2 to raise up to 7.8. Rinse and repeat.

[How's My Water Look?]

My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

Here's my Taylor kit results:

pH = 7.8

FC = 10.2

TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

CYA = 82 ppm

-------------------------------------

MPS OK range as tested by test strip

(the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

Suggestions, comments?

Thanks

Ken

Just for my own education in trying to understand all this, how does CYA get so high after 1-2 weeks of a new tub??

Does well water have CYA? I assume tap water doesn't?

I'm just reaching 30 CYA after 1.5 weeks of Dichlor, and my FC has been running in the 3.0 range after 24 hours, so I've been adding a little too much Dichlor to get up to the magic 30 CYA.

Switching to bleach tonight though

EDIT: Just thought, could the high FC content give a false CYA reading?

Your CYA is in your Dichlor. Every 10ppm FC via Dichlor adds 9ppm CYA.

Typically this takes me about two weeks to get to 30ppm CYA using dichlor, then I switch to bleach.

I have never heard of a high FC causing a false CYA reading. but having that high of a FC does indicate lots of dichlor usage. Which would in-turn show high cya.

That's my point. To get to 82 ppm of CYA he would have to add 91ppm of Dichlor which would be 219 ounces of Dichlor

And he says "this is week 2 of our new tub", so he hasn't even reached 2 weeks yet.

Your math is wrong....91ppm FC via dichlor is achieved with 8.8 ounces in a 400 gallon tub.

if you used 219 ounces of dichlor in a 400 gallon tub you would achieve a FC level of about 2,500ppm.

Make sure to change your pool size in the pool calculator...I suspect it's still at the default 10,000 gallon pool volume.

Oops, your right

Pool Calculator at home = 425 tub

Pool Calculator at work = 10,000 gallon pool

That is still a lot of Dichlor to be adding over a 1-2 week period.

[How's My Water Look?]

My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

Here's my Taylor kit results:

pH = 7.8

FC = 10.2

TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

CYA = 82 ppm

-------------------------------------

MPS OK range as tested by test strip

(the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

Suggestions, comments?

Thanks

Ken

Just for my own education in trying to understand all this, how does CYA get so high after 1-2 weeks of a new tub??

Does well water have CYA? I assume tap water doesn't?

I'm just reaching 30 CYA after 1.5 weeks of Dichlor, and my FC has been running in the 3.0 range after 24 hours, so I've been adding a little too much Dichlor to get up to the magic 30 CYA.

Switching to bleach tonight though

EDIT: Just thought, could the high FC content give a false CYA reading?

Your CYA is in your Dichlor. Every 10ppm FC via Dichlor adds 9ppm CYA.

Typically this takes me about two weeks to get to 30ppm CYA using dichlor, then I switch to bleach.

I have never heard of a high FC causing a false CYA reading. but having that high of a FC does indicate lots of dichlor usage. Which would in-turn show high cya.

That's my point. To get to 82 ppm of CYA he would have to add 91ppm of Dichlor which would be 219 ounces of Dichlor

And he says "this is week 2 of our new tub", so he hasn't even reached 2 weeks yet.

[How's My Water Look?]

My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

Here's my Taylor kit results:

pH = 7.8

FC = 10.2

TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

CYA = 82 ppm

-------------------------------------

MPS OK range as tested by test strip

(the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

Suggestions, comments?

Thanks

Ken

Just for my own education in trying to understand all this, how does CYA get so high after 1-2 weeks of a new tub??

Does well water have CYA? I assume tap water doesn't?

I'm just reaching 30 CYA after 1.5 weeks of Dichlor, and my FC has been running in the 3.0 range after 24 hours, so I've been adding a little too much Dichlor to get up to the magic 30 CYA.

Switching to bleach tonight though

EDIT: Just thought, could the high FC content give a false CYA reading?

[Is This Ok To Use To Add Borates?]

For those of you who haven't used Borates, all I can is wow!!

It adds such a nice silky feeling to the water . . .it really makes a big difference

For $3 per fill, it is well worth it from a chemical standpoint and water feeling standpoint.

Thanks to Chemgeek and others on here.

I've switched to the Dichlor-Bleach method and my tub has never been better.

[Started Dichlor-bleach Method And Just Got K2006]

Before you add the borates, I'd keep adding acid to keep the pH lower and this will also lower the TA over time. You want to get your TA lower since that is the true source of rising pH in your water. If you don't want to add acid all the time, then you can more rapidly lower the TA using the TA lowering procedure that is described in Nitro's post. You essentially add acid to lower the pH to 7.0, then aerate which raises the pH, then add acid to lower pH and TA and repeat until the TA is low (even as low as 50 ppm if the pH seems to rise quickly with aeration). At that point, just aerate to raise the pH near 7.5, add the borates, and you're done. I think any TA of 80 ppm or higher is going to be too high for you -- for most people, switching to bleach, they need to get their TA lower.

Will "PH Decreaser" (sodium bisulfate) lower TA? I got a bunch of this stuff and figured it would be better than running out and buying acid.

[Is This Ok To Use To Add Borates?]

Yes. I assume that 1% isn't anything dangerous and is probably just minor impurities. If you want to play it safer, then you could get more direct pure boric acid products as indicated. Does the bottle say what is in the other 1%? If it says "inert ingredients", then you're fine.

Yep, "insert ingredients".

Thanks for all your help!

[Is This Ok To Use To Add Borates?]

Orthoboric acid is the same as boric acid. As for killing roaches or other insects, that is because it is at far higher concentrations relative to body mass and such insects (including ants) are unable to excrete boron through urine as we do. The safety of borates is discussed in this thread.

So, that means "yes" I can use it, correct?

[Started Dichlor-bleach Method And Just Got K2006]

Started on Sat with fresh fill after decontamination.

Current readings are

TA=120

CH=130

PH=8.0

FC=5.0

CC=0.5

Since I last added Dichlor about 20 hours ago, I guess I've been adding too much after each soak(I soak every night), so I will slow that down a little. My current count says I've added 21ppm of Dichlor . . .targeting 34 before I switch to bleach.

My plan is to lower PH to 7.5 which will put my CSI at .02, but the PH is at the bottom of the spectrum.

Does this sound like a good balance?

I then plan to add 50ppm of Boric Acid (Roach killer ) to stabilize PH.

Good plan??

Thanks

[Is This Ok To Use To Add Borates?]

Two questions:

1. This is 99% orthoboric acid, can I use it to add Borates to my spa http://www.walgreens.com/store/catalog/Pes...on=push-product

Obviously I'm a little concerned adding Roach Killer to my tub

2. How much to I add to achieve 50ppm in a 425 gallon spa

Thanks!

[Cloudy Water - Chemical Newbie]

I have a 425 gallon tub and generally I'm the only person that uses it

I got the tub in early January and by late January the water was cloudy and I assumed I wasn't using enough non-chlorine (I have the Monarch/Nature 2 thingy in my filter) after each soak.

So I drained and refilled.

Thrilled with my new clean water, I've been soaking every night for 1/2 hour at a time and adding 6-7 teaspoons (fill up the bottom of the cap + a little more) after every soak.

Now, the water is starting to get cloudy again (uggg. . . sparkling clean water is so beautiful )

I know I don't have any fancy test kits, but the strips show PH and Alk being in acceptable range.

Does too much non-chlorine cause cloudy water?

Any ideas to get my water sparkly again without another winter drain/refill?

I know, not a lot of facts here, but hoping for some suggestions.

Thx

[Overall Tub Cost/value]

I wanted to get a total yearly cost of owning a tub and after crunching some numbers here are some approx numbers I came up with!

Average length of owning a tub - I am thinking 15 years is probably a good average - maybe a little high (at least for my purposes as I would probably want new technology at least every 15 years) So..if I pay $10,000 for a tub for a good quality tub- the tub will cost me $750 per year! This is based on little to zero resale value for a 15 year old tub!

Now we have to add in chemicals which I am estimating at $250 a year!

Next we add in electricity at an average of $30 per month (Hot Springs) times 12 months = $360

So - this comes out to a cost of $1360 per year or $110 per month - not counting added beer/scotch consumption! Electricity to wash and dry towels! But I am thinking this may be a wash as I will not use as much electricity running the tv at night!

So...my question - is tubbing really worth paying $30 per week - no matter how many times you tub!?!?!?!

I am thinking yes but wanted to hear from seasoned tubbers before biting the bullet!

Thks

Funny, I went through a similar exercise and my conclusion was 'no', its not worth $30/wk. . .I think my calculation came to $28-$29.

BUT, there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

I focused on good, quality used tubs. Found one that was the personal tub of the owner of a local spa shop. I got a 2007 model Nordic with 1 years worth of chemicals and a 90 day warranty for $2500. You can't tell this tub from a new one!

If, in a couple of years, the family time/stress relief/enjoyment becomes worth $30/wk to me, I will upgrade. As for my first week of ownership, I'm getting every nickel of enjoyment out of it!

[New Tub Owner . .few Easy Q's]

Tub was setup and filled this morning. Got done around 11am .. . as of right now (4pm) the tub is at 70. Was hoping to watch Wisconsin/Ohio State at 7pm and soak afterward, around 10pm, but not sure the tub will be hot enough yet. The maiden soak may have to be tomorrow.

Anyways, on to the few questions:

I have an ozonator (supposedly). What does this do and how do I know its working??

The filter cycle is programmable .. how long should the cycle generally be set for??

The spa is a Nordic Premium.

Thanks!