Poolscaper

Hi there again, Just F.Y.I, heat pumps although not as expensive to run as gas or elect. heaters don't work as well when the outside ambient temp gets below 50 and gets worse (less efficient) the colder you go from there. They also are a "turn it on and leave it on" type of heater whereas your elect. and gas models are able to heat more quickly so you have the luxury of turning it on the night before you want to swim (if properly sized) and then turning it off for the rest of the week if you don't expect to swim again for five or six more days. The one nice thing to do if you have the budget for it is to install both the heat pump and a gas or elect. unit so you can still have the ability to quick heat the pool with the gas or elect. heater and then switch over to the heat pump for maintaining the temp. after its up to temp. Say when you possibly didn't expect to need to use it on short notice. The other issue is that with gas heaters, you shouldn't use them to heat and or maintain the pool any temp. less than say 70 degrees due to the issue with condensation building up on the heat exchanger and then the flue gasses getting stuck on the condensation and then that resulting in a build up of the flue gasses in the fire chamber. This is called sooting up the heat exchanger. On LP models this often results in what's called flame rollout. This condition almost always results in a service call at the least to replace the high temp (flame rollout) fuse and or some burnt wires and at the worst an explosion and or someone getting their face burned or even worse when they try to diagnose the situation with the panel open not expecting the flame rollout to occur. That's where an elect. or heat pump would come in handy to keep the temp. at a lower level but still high enough that it would take even less time to get it up to a useable temp. On the issue of suggesting equipment, I think all companies will have their preferences. I am partial to sticking with one brand as much as possible and our preferred brand is the Pentair line of products for the pool Filter - 30" dia. Tr-100d sand filter which will give you excellent long intervals between backwashes; Pumps - Challenger or Whisperflow 2 h.p. full rated (energy efficient),and chlorinators - Rainbow brand (a Petair company) a 329x will give you a great chlorinator at a far less cost than a salt system, they don't tell you about the extra cell replacement expense every two to three years or the fact that a Salt system pool is still a chlorine pool. Most are not aware that the salt only enables the salt "chlorine generator" to make "chlorine", or also the fact that salt in pools as new as five years old are starting to experience decking decay due to the deck's salt water exposure. As you can probably tell, I'm a dyed in the wool chlorine feeder guy due to the fact that if you do it reasonably right, it's the least expensive, most reliable system out there. You still have to maintain other chems. in your salt system pool (including salt) so why not go the less expensive, less damaging route with the 329x feeder. I am however sold on automated Orp/pH systems and if you want to make it easier to take care of then a Polaris brand 660 auto feeder system is your best bet. It's an inexpensive system that is very user friendly. We have many out in the field (that we own) in the pools that we maintain that have a zero tolerance level on problems and that's what they consistantly provide is no problems. However, back to the other equipment. Heaters are as follows, Raypak~Rheem brand for Heat pumps with a titanium heat exchanger that's 25% larger than about all others and have a out of range chemical sensor to help prevent chemical damage; Coates brand for elect. heaters; Raypak~Rheem brand for gas models, for the same reasons as the heat pumps. Mainly Raypak~Rheem is selected due to the high degree of support after the sale with a large network of repair techs and great warranty periods 5 years for heat pumps! Next, don't go anywhere near steps covered with the liner. That's the first place the liners get damaged and go bad. The liners shrink with age and where the liner covers the last two upper steps, the water isn't deep which doesn't allow for pressure / weight to be exerted upon the liner keeping it in place. The liner shrinks back from the inside corners (especially in the winter when many pools are left with the water even lower for winterizing) and then bang, someone puts a toenail or pool wall brush right through the unsupported liner material. We also charge a hefty upgrade price on the liners when they need replaced due to the "problem" potential of the liner not fitting like a glove. There are quite a few brands of pool steps that allow you to cut the liner around the perimeter of the steps themselves therefore alleviating the potential for misfits and premature failure of the liner. Chek with your pool installers about the many options available with these quality alternatives. One last topic I'd like to mention on behalf of pool installers everywhere, It's great to be an informed pool purchaser. To spec what you want to be installed so that you get apples to apples comparison of companies. But please let me suggest some things; #1 - If you spec it then you need to live with it and don't blame the installer for manuf. issues or expect him to repair it at no cost (labor wise if it is a manuf. defect or problem and they believe me they do occur). If he spec's it and it's equivalent then allow him to use his preferred product. That way his people know the product, hopefully they're the local repair rep for the co. and can take even better care of the unit for you. And if something goes wrong with it, it's the product he suggested to be used and then he's be responsible for it flat out. There won't be the finger pointing game which is a no win situation. #2 - Even though you feel you've researched it out well, don't be a pool expert. A month or even a few years of off and on again research does not make you an expert but more probably a person that has a limited amount of knowledge that can do more harm than good. Don't be the expert and look over their shoulder when they're out doing their work for you. It'll pay you big dividends in the long run. #3 - Spend the time necessary to find a competent installer you trust. You need to trust him to take care of your project. You'll likely be in bed with him for quite a while (years) and that can be a really good thing if he's responsible. It can also be years if he's not responsible except the time will probably be spent with both of you giving lots of money to your attorneys and no one in the long run really winning. #4 - Most people have no idea that when a company gives them a time frame for completion, it's a coin toss that it will be done in time unless they've (the pool installer) allowed more than ample time to complete it. We've turned down million dollar jobs due to the fact that the companies wanted the project completed in an unreasonable amount of time. Most areas of the country have been experiencing radical weather for the last 5 or six years. Our region has experienced the #1 and #2 wettest years in recorded weather history and one of the 10 wettest years in recorded weather history in just the last three years. Many aspects of the pool install has to do with very weather dependant conditions and many times we are unable to move forward due to the weather forecast alone. We can't for example stamp a concrete deck when there's over a 10% chance of rain due to the immense complications that would occur if it did rain. Never have I experienced a customer say… "go ahead an do it, I'll pay for any weather related damages" it doesn't happen and companies can't take the chances in this business. On an average pool deck that issue alone could cost $6,000.00 or more to repair with just a 30 minute shower. The same issue happening on a high end plaster install could run $10,000.00 or more with some of the exotic glass bead plasters we use. We've recently just had a 9-10 inch rainfall in just 6-8 hours. Can you imagine the scheduling nightmare with these obstacles? Ask & understand the companies schedule, expect delays because they can & will happen at least some of the time., and realize that you're not the only customer the company has. One year, we even had a customer call us in the middle of a flat out day long downpour wanting to know where our crew was. Go figure… #5 – Pay the company a good profit, not just a good wage if you expect good service. Pay them excellent profit if you expect excellent customer service. If he's the cheapest then you should expect the cheapest job and not be surprised or complain when that's what you get. Pay a company well and be reasonable with them and they'll take care of you. Most people don't realize that a pool can be a really fine and good quality of life thing to own. But they can also be an absolute nightmare when you contract the wrong company for the wrong reasons. Pool repair work is probably the most expensive work you'll have done on your home. It never ceases to amaze me how many people want the caviar job on a fish bait budget and they actually think they can get it. It never happens. Sooner or later the cut corners start appearing. We stay busy with approx. 30% of our work fixing new or near new work that was truly on a very sub par level. The overriding factor in most of the deals gone bad, the company or more often the "Pool guy" was inexpensive and could start the job quickly… Hope this helps!!!

Dear George, I am a pool plasterer with approx. 15 years experience as a actual finisher on both aggregated and regular marcite finishes. Both of the previous guys are dead on about the plastering not being a weekend warrior's D.I.Y. project. By the way, if it's new const., are your walls "poured" walls or "shotcrete" wet hose process or "gunite" dry hose process. If the walls / floor are sufficiently rough, you could probably plaster the pool without using any type of roughening agent. If the pools existing, then I'd consider getting a couple guys in there to chip out the pool instead of using bond kote or something similar. I'm somewhat skeptical of the long term viability of those types of products. They definitely have their place especially in regular marcite applications. It then wouldn’t be as big of an issue but with an extended service life plaster like Diamond Brite or other aggregated plaster, I've seen a number of pool's plaster delaminate with that or a similar roughening agent used prior to re-plaster. I'm not wanting to muddy the water but we've re-plastered a number of relatively newly re-plastered pools that should have held up much longer. Chipping it out is definitely more expensive but what's another thousand or two compared to having to deal with delamination and the always visible repair in several years... You know what they say about hindsight being 20-20... Hope this helps!!!

Dear George, As an actual plasterer who has plastered both RiverRock and Diamond Brite I can tell you that you'll get more life from the RiverRock than Diamond Brite. This is due to the fact that the Diamond Brite aggregate is much smaller than the River Rock and therefore will come loose sooner with a smaller amount of etching due to Low pH, Low Calcium hardness and Low Total Alkalinity. I personally think that the RiverRock looks better as well. While the quantumchromodynamics gentleman is correct in stating that adding Pozzolans (fancy term for small silicate particles) will help the plaster to resist chemical degradation it's been my experience that the larger the aggregate the more embedment it will have and therefore will last longer before it comes loose and the finish becomes very rough and needs either re-plastering or diamond sanding. Diamond sanding will radically smooth the finish as long as there is enough thickness of plaster to allow for the sanders removal of the plaster to allow for the overall smoothness of the surface to be achieved before the pool's grey colored shell is exposed. You can look at it this way I suppose, would you buy tires for your truck that had jus a little little tread depth on them because they looked smoother even though you'd lose what I'd give a good educated guess at 40-50% longer lifespan ~or~ go with a tire that had some meat on it so that you'd get longer life and still maintain a great look. Another of the quantumchromodynamics gentlemans remarks is that the rock finish is rougher and this is absolutely true. It is quite a bit rougher but there are some steps you can take to alleviate a lot of this roughness. It requires applying most brands "out of their spec" meaning that most plaster supply co's. want the installer to remove pretty much 3/4 of the embedment material (fine plaster that holds the rock in place) that holds the aggregate. While this does create a nice look due to the additional rock exposure, this is exactly what makes the surface much rougher and will lead to premature loss of aggregate when the embedment material starts to erode. Now if the finish is applied per the following instructions, you'll have a much longer period before this loss of aggregate happens. This is due to the much higher percentage of the aggregates surface encapsulation to the embedment material. This approach means you'll have to request that your plasterer is to remove only approx. 1/4 of the embedment material from the surface. This will still allow the top of the rock to be exposed for looks (not the same look as with 3/4 material removal) but will provide "bridging" between the aggregates top most exposed surfaces that will make the interior surface feel remarkably more smooth. The resulting look is preferred by most of my customers especially when you have them feel a regular finished rock surface and then the altered surface. To be sure it is a different look but different doesn't mean cheaper or bad looking. We just completed a $500k plus pool this year and they went with the revised finish and they love it. Money wasn't the object, comfort and appeal for them was king and they still chose the altered finish. It's up to you but my money is on what will last much longer, feel better to my family's feet and knees and still look like an upper end finish.