Bugman1400

You did it right. So, the 26.33VAC tells you that the "safety chain" has no broken links. About the only thing left is the flame sensor. Did you get to that yet? Not yet, I will get to that right after lunch. Honestly, I wanted to make sure I was testing the TH condition correctly before I pulled the sensor. What am I testing for with the flame sensor? I need to sand it a bit right? Do I need to see if we have 24vac thru that item as well? Just a question, which comes first - the ignitor glow then the flame sensor "senses" the flame and tells the gas it's OK? Or does the flame sensor need to sense something from the ignitor before it (the flame sensor) allows the ignitor to glow. I don't think the flame sensor has the 24VAC control voltage. It works off a resistance value. I think the Fenwal checks the flame sensor beforehand to confirm the abscence of the flame. So, if the flame sensor has crud on it and the Fenwal thinks there is already a flame....why would it initiate another ignition sequence. Obviously, there are ways to fool the Fenwal into thinking that there is no flame, but I'm not sure if the resistance is supposed to be high or low for the abscence of flame condition. Report back your findings after the sanding.

You did it right. So, the 26.33VAC tells you that the "safety chain" has no broken links. About the only thing left is the flame sensor. Did you get to that yet?

When you check for 24VAC, you put one lead to ground and use the other lead to check at each of the points in the "saftey chain". The current draw thru this circuit will be very small. If your glow bar voltage is 30V then it doesn't sound like the Fenwal is sending the 120V signal to the glow bar to ignite. You'll have to figure out why. Check Terminal W, see below. Also, what is your Fenwal Model#? Call For Heat 35-65 & 35-66 without Full-time power (r terminal): When a call for heat is received from the thermostat supplying 24 volts to the W terminal, the control will perform a self-check routine, flash the diagnostic LED for a second and begin the safety timing sequence. After an optional "pre-purge" period, the hot surface ignitor is energized for a heat-up period, followed by the gas valve for the "trial for ignition" (TFI) period. Did you find the flame sensor and give it a sanding? OK, here we go. First off, I did not find a Terminal W on my Fenwall. The numbers on it are Catalog #05-332161-103; Teledyne Laars E0180400; there is also a 0230F stamped on it. Regarding the flame sensor, the screw that holds the sensor / plate is trashed (corroded / stripped), so it wil take a little work to get it out. I will continue to work on that. Thanks for the continued efforts. I will try to post a picture of my Fenwall if I can. No need.....the catalog# will do....Google does wonders. The FS terminal is the Flame Sensor. The F1 & F2 terminals are for the exhaust (inducer) fan. The VAL is for the gas valve. The IND is the input at the end of the "saftey chain". The TH is the input for the Thermostat (the call for heat). The IGN goes to one side of the glow bar. The IGN/120 goes to the other side of the glow bar. See Figure 4a on Page 3 in the link below. Fenwal Manual Fenwal Photo So check for 24VAC voltage at TH after the inducer fan kicks on. Put one lead on TH and the other lead to ground. If you get around 24VAC then most likely it is the Flame Sensor. If you do not get the 24VAC then you have a break in your "safety chain". Good Luck and report back.

If it does not have a break then it should be good. You should be able to disconnect it from the Fenwal and then Ohm it out and check for continuity.

When you check for 24VAC, you put one lead to ground and use the other lead to check at each of the points in the "saftey chain". The current draw thru this circuit will be very small. If your glow bar voltage is 30V then it doesn't sound like the Fenwal is sending the 120V signal to the glow bar to ignite. You'll have to figure out why. Check Terminal W, see below. Also, what is your Fenwal Model#? Call For Heat 35-65 & 35-66 without Full-time power (r terminal): When a call for heat is received from the thermostat supplying 24 volts to the W terminal, the control will perform a self-check routine, flash the diagnostic LED for a second and begin the safety timing sequence. After an optional "pre-purge" period, the hot surface ignitor is energized for a heat-up period, followed by the gas valve for the "trial for ignition" (TFI) period. Did you find the flame sensor and give it a sanding?

The glow bar should glow way before the gas valve "click". So, if no glow then you need to check the reason for the no glow. If you have a voltmeter, you could check the voltage to the glow bar from the Fenwal. If you have voltage then the glow bar is broke. If you do not have voltage then the "safety circuit" (my term) is open. The "safety circuit" will consist of the blower switch and temp switches. So, thing to check: 1.)Does my glow bar have voltage from the Fenwal? Check for voltage while the blower is on. I'll say the obvious....please be careful!

Appreciate the response. I was hoping I would not have to contact Jandy, but might have to. I happen to live in a fairly small town, and we are void of qualified pool heater repair people, as well as parts houses. I would sure like to be fairly confident in my diagnosis before I order any parts. I will keep plugging along on my end and keep those interested informed. I don't disagree that it could be the Fenwal, but there are plenty of other related things to check first. First and foremost, if the glowbar to the HSI glows then that is not it. You should be able to see the glowbar at or near the burner. Another obvious thing to look for is the "click" of the gas valve. If you hear the "click" then that is not the problem either (more than likely). Like you, I have also tested for gas by loosening the union near the shutoff valve. However, you should also be able to hear the gas escaping with a decent amount of volume. Also, check your flame sensor. It should be located near the glowbar. Take a piece of sandpaper and make a few passes over the probe. So, report back on the following: 1.)Does the glowbar glow? 2.)Do you hear the gas valve "click"? 3.)Did you clean the flame sensor? If you don't know what the hell I'm talking about on any of these questions then either read more or call a pool tech.

"If you are cheap like me, you can get the ignitors (glo bars) from a commercial washer/dryer place for about $10. Try Summit Parts and do a search for "flat glo bar". I have also had my battle with putting in an LT400 gas heater myself and would like to add my two cents. I bought my heater used. After reading this fantastic forum, I was able to figure out that a few passes of sandpaper over the flame sensor to clean off the soot fixed half my problems. The other half of my problems was not having a regulator at the heater. Initially, I thought there was insufficient amount of gas getting to the heater since it was opposite of the gas meter side of the house. Since I had a valve and a union at the heater, I just disconnected the heater at the union and vented the gas to the air and it sounded like it had plenty of pressure and volume to me. So, then I figured that the gas was regulated enough at the gas meter. Not so! In my case, the pressure was too high at the heater's gas valve. Apparently, the heater's gas valve has a way of detecting if the gas pressure is higher than it can handle and will prevent any gas from entering the valve body. I bought another gas valve and an electronic manometer trying to figure this damn thing out. Once I added a 3/4" regulator at the heater, it started up first time and has been running ever since.

Thanks for the much needed education!!!!

A lady at the pool store swore by Nature2 and a neighbor of mine who has had his pool for 20+ years also uses this type of approach. I think he has the type that floats around on the water surface. Can this method help me ride through some of the days that I forget to check and add Cl?

What is the ruling on using mineral chemistry such as Nature 2 and Pool RX? I've read some of the threads on Nature 2, but I'd like to get input from the chem experts here.

I finally figured out to call Hayward and I'm surprised that they did not say anything about the Schmear. The support tech on the phone had to call me back after consulting with a Hayward engineer. He stated that the skimmer box is an ABS plastic resin. So, I'd imagine that I could get the ABS glue from HD or Lowes. I guess PVC glue will work also. Thanks!

Well, I've done a bit more research on the internet and learned that the ring in question is called a Skimmer Support Ring. I am surprised none of the pros here have heard of it. Anybody know the best way to glue these back down?

My skimmer basket rests in the skimmer box on a plastic ring-like structure. However, it seems that the plastic ring has broken loose and the skimmer basket now falls to the bottom of the box where the return is and doesn't filter out the big stuff (like leaves). The plastic ring can also now be pulled out of the skimmer box through the top. Please tell me how to fix this. I'm guessing I can't just glue it.

Just remember that a 50Amp breaker cannot protect 20Amp wire. The breaker protects the wire that is downstream of it. So, if you put a 20Amp breaker downstream of the 50Amp breaker then you will need to run 50Amp wire to the 20Amp breaker. You then can run 20Amp wire downstream of that to your booster motor. I'm not sure that s GFI is required by NEC code to run your pool equipment. I think it is for hottubs because you are sitting in the same box of water that contains the filter, motor, lights, control panel, etc. My pool AquaLinkRS control panel has no GFI on it at all. 2008 NEC code, Article 680 (Swimming Pools), Section 680.21 (Motors), Paragraph A1, indicates that a wire conductor smaller than 12 AWG cannot be used for motors. It also, indicates that if the motor is a permanent connection type (not a plug-in recepticle) and not less than 6ft from the pool then it does not have to be GFCI.

My vote would be to have the pool builder fix it right. The lack of a return will cut down on the turnover rate of the pool. A 21K pool is a decent size pool that will need adequate filtering and flow rate. Don't settle for the mistake of others. The builder should be able to fix this problem with minimal impact.

That diagram is similar, but the valve on top looks bigger than what I have and I have no #38. Also, my Clearflo has a brass stem (nipple) with a hole through it that protrudes through the SS tap half of the canister. My plastic valve then screws onto the brass stem (nipple). Perhaps, the replacement/aftermarket part replaces the brass stem also. I'm confused about the acid. I thought I read somewhere not to use acid.

This is good info. I have a Clearflo Stainless Steel DE 48 sq ft. filter that I believe is impregnated because I also have made the mistake of underdosing the DE. I think my normal running pressure is around 15 PSI (12 PSI without the DE) and I am currently showing 22 PSI. I have BW'd over and over and the pressure comes down to 18 PSI, but then escalates back to the 22 PSI shortly after the addition of the DE. I had the filter broke down before the season started and usually hose off the grids. I also have all fairly new gids. My old ones were original when I bought the house a few years ago and have accumulated tears over the past few years. So, my entire grid is no older than 3 years old. I have 2 questions" 1.) What is PC's opinion as to the best way to clean the impregnated grids. 2.) My manual bleed valve on top with the pressure gauge is cracked and leaks water. I can't seem to locate an on-line vendor who can replace this. Most of the time I see replacement parts for the Pentair's and Pac-Fab's, but the parts diagram does not look exactly like what I have. Any suggestions? Much thanks!!

Capacitor failure can be from a variety of reasons, but, in general, they should last many years. Added moisture (humidity or pool water) could have resulted in a bad connection or perhaps the leads burned off or I've seen the terminals just fall off due to vibration. The capacitor is needed to start the motor against load. No capacitor will result in higher amp draw. I really doubt that the motor itself had a bad winding or a short to ground. An easy way to test this is with an ohmmeter. Perhaps, I am wrong and the motor had a defect.

OTO (Orthotolidine) ONLY tests total chlorine, not FC or CC! Period. The instructions often givne to read immediantely for FC and then wait 3 minutes an read for TA DO NOT WORK! If the color is turning dark yellow after one drop it means your chlorine levels are VERY HIGH! High enough to bleach out the results of test strips and DPD tests without diluting your sample with distilled water first. This can lead you to believe that there is no chlorine in the water when, in reality, the chlorine is very high. Interesting. What would you recommend to read the FC? The Taylor kits take too long. Seems like I've read previous posts about a hand-held electronic device that is good for reading FC and pH. I would recommend a Taylor K-2006 or other FAS-DPD titration test for chlorine readings. If you think it takes too long then you don't have time to own a pool. Handheld devices that can read chlorine directly are going to cost in the thousands or tens of thousands. ORP meter do not read chlorine but rather the oxidation potential of the water and if there is CYA in the water, as is found in all well maintained outdoor pools that are manually chlorinated, then ORP cannot be accurately read so the meter becomes useless. pH meters are fine IF they are kept calibrated and the electrodes are stores properly (wet) and replaced as needed. THAT take much longer than testing with a Taylor kit! Also, there are NO good meters under around $500. Period! There are plenty of meters under that price but no GOOD ones! Gotcha! Then I'll stick to the lengthy Taylor method. Good info.

OTO (Orthotolidine) ONLY tests total chlorine, not FC or CC! Period. The instructions often givne to read immediantely for FC and then wait 3 minutes an read for TA DO NOT WORK! If the color is turning dark yellow after one drop it means your chlorine levels are VERY HIGH! High enough to bleach out the results of test strips and DPD tests without diluting your sample with distilled water first. This can lead you to believe that there is no chlorine in the water when, in reality, the chlorine is very high. Interesting. What would you recommend to read the FC? The Taylor kits take too long. Seems like I've read previous posts about a hand-held electronic device that is good for reading FC and pH.

The 192oz jugs of bleach for me are getting heavier and heavier and are a real pain to buy from the store and load into my plastic storage closet. Is there a problem with using the shock packets. I think they are usually ~73% Hypochlorite. It would seem to me that these are also cheaper, but I may be wrong. I think they are about $4 a pack, but I usually get several packs for free at the beginning of the season from the pool store. Do these packets have CYA that I have to worry about?

Can we see some pictures? This is starting to sound like a great learning opp?

Well crap.......so you're saying that the pucks also kill (drop) the T/A. I did not know this. Well, you're right......the Taylor kit indicates that my T/A was between 70-80. I guess I'll stick to the liquid chlorine. Is there a good way to boost the T/A? Also, do they sell the pucks without all the CYA? Also, does a high CYA cause any swimming discomfort like burning eyes, etc. or is it just detrimental to the T/A? One more thing...I have a liner so I'm guessing that CH is not a problem even if its high?

I use the pucks and my pH drops. I used to fight this by using a fountain, but this also cools the water too much. Is it possible to drill a small hole and put a small check valve on the suction of the pump to aerate the water? Would this work to elevate the pH?