bart6453

You still may want to decontaminate via superclorination and MPS. Also, remember that after you soak your FC will dip. You will want to add bleach to compensate. Usually a half an hour soak for the wife and I requires about 2-3 ounces to keep the FC at 5ppm in a 375 gallon tub with an initial FC of 4-5ppm. Your mileage will vary, just don't let your FC drop below 3ppm or so...or even maybe 4ppm due to your higher CYA.

Honesty. no BS, no bashing...just show me the goods, remove the theatrics and sell me a tub at a fair price. The difference between cost and sale price is the value your customer will pay for.

Get rid of the test strips...buy a good dropper kit. Only you can take care of your tub, your store is going to be helpful...but in the end you care a whole lot more than they do about your water quality.

For MPS I use Pro-team's shock. You can get it online or at a pool/spa store. I wouldnt get too hung up on brand, just make sure it's MPS and go from there.

wow, that is just an incredible amount of CD. It will be interesting to see what happens, I would think that whatever was affecting your tub is pretty well dead. This is the first time you have had measurable amounts of chlorine in your tub overnight, so maybe you did get to a break point. I would still do Nitro's decon procedure and/or drain asap...unless I suppose a miracle happened and your CD went to 15% or something like that. Since you burnt through so much FC overnight, I would consider adding a few ounces of MPS soon to help oxidize the waste.

That sounds like a very, very good way to super sanitize your water....I would definitely listen to Nitro's advice. Get yourself a good test kit before you start.

So I gotta ask about your line of work.. Are you in "Waste Management?" Ha! No waste management here....I work in the motorcycle industry...more specifically Harley-Davidson.

After adding the Clorox....what was your FC reading??? That is an insane amount of chlorine to be burning through...are you or have you in the past used any peroxide products? The reason I ask is that peroxide does neutralize chlorine and vice versa. My only suggestion would be to add 17oz again, and test in 30 minutes, record that FC reading and test in another 30 minutes, then I would add the calculated amount of chlorine to get you back to where you should have been after adding 17oz. I would continue to do this until I saw no measurable change in 30 or so minutes....or until my chlorine demand was at about 25% per day. I might keep my tub at the shock level for a day or so just to make sure its all dead. Another question, are you running an ozonator? If so, that can contribute to overzealous chlorine demand. 30 minutes after I put the clorox in I took a reading (again with strips) and in my guesstimation FC was probably between 4 and 5 How's the FC battle going??? I don't know what EZ spa is, but it sure could be an MSP Shock. I would seem to have the best luck with just a pure MSP shock product....that way I know exactly what is going in my tub. Just as a guideline, in my 375 gallon tub, I need to add about 1oz of bleach per day to keep my FC at 5ppm without any tub usage. Of course this changes if we get in.

Not sure of your spa size, but the pool calculator shows 3 counces of sodium carbonate will raise pH by 1.86 and TA by 61 ppm in a 350 gallon spa. These are HUGH adjustments. What was your original and target pH? My spa is 425 gallons. According to my taylor K2006, my PH was sub 7 and when I did the base test I need 12/13 drops. Can;t remember the actually ph reading, but I used the charts in the K2006 book to figure. As for my TA, it was around 75. But the kicker is the adjustments shot both my ph and ta way beyond predicted levels. I always halve my additions so I don't overshoot. If I calculate having to add 1 ounce, I add a half and re-test in 30 minutes. the only thing I dont do that on is sanitizer.

After adding the Clorox....what was your FC reading??? That is an insane amount of chlorine to be burning through...are you or have you in the past used any peroxide products? The reason I ask is that peroxide does neutralize chlorine and vice versa. My only suggestion would be to add 17oz again, and test in 30 minutes, record that FC reading and test in another 30 minutes, then I would add the calculated amount of chlorine to get you back to where you should have been after adding 17oz. I would continue to do this until I saw no measurable change in 30 or so minutes....or until my chlorine demand was at about 25% per day. I might keep my tub at the shock level for a day or so just to make sure its all dead. Another question, are you running an ozonator? If so, that can contribute to overzealous chlorine demand.

The difference between my customers and your customers is that my customers will have a little "Come To Jesus" meeting with you out back if you disrespect them. I doubt your customers would have the same type of reaction. The first time you have your desk flipped over you learn to be nice to people in a real hurry. Not saying we take crap from people either...it works both ways. Makes for a pretty civil interaction from both directions. Lets just say that we get to make a fair profit, and the customer gets good service.....regardless of where or from whom they purchased their "equipment" There is a way to treat customers or potential customers....and then there is a way not to. By your previous posts I really think you are trending towards the latter.

Your anger and attitude exemplifies the problem with hot tub dealers. Instead of positively reinforcing your current customers who may or may not have purchased a tub from you by giving them good service and good advice; no matter the circumstance...you are doing the exact opposite. You are punishing those who currently do not do business with you; and when they do decide to try to get a handle on your level of service, you sucker punch them with frivolous charges and a miss pissy pants attitude. The minute you begin to externalize your business problems is the first minute of your eleventh hour. Good luck and God Speed, cause you are going to need it with an attitude like that. I purchased my tub second hand, the dealer that services the warranty (Jacuzzi dealer) has the same you are gonna pay for this and that attitude. The dealer that I get my chemicals and advice and aftermarket parts from (Hot Springs), has never asked any questions, never given me any grief and always been friendly. Needless to say...I don't care if Jacuzzi's are half price (and for the record I love my Jacuzzi), I will be buying a Hot Springs from the reputable dealer. Invest in your future...Be nice to your customers.

You got it, put in all your values for CYA and such...look towards the bottom of the calculator and it will give you your recommended FC levels and shock levels.

The color matching with the drop kits is exceptionally easy. Once you use a Taylor kit or the equivalent, you will never go back. The answers are extremely cut and dry. No guessing....I promise!

By dirty, I mean that you have a bacteria problem. You will not really see it..in the pool there was a huge algae bloom that took place to dirty the water on top of his poor sanitation issues. The calculation is done by using the pool calculator located at the following link http://www.poolcalculator.com Use that to get your figures....it works great. If you have an iPhone or iPod, get the app for that. It makes for super easy spa side chemical calculations. FYI...to take a 425 gallon tub from 0ppm FC to 18ppm FC will require 16oz of 6% bleach.

YUP....6% clorox is exactly what most everyone uses. adding 6 ounces will get your FC up there in a hurry. I don't know your spas volume, but that would take my 375 gallon spa up to about 8ppm FC. if you are looking to shock it with chlorine at 60ppm CYA you will need to take it to about 18ppm FC, which would be 14ounces of bleach. Again, based on a 375 gallon tub. You will need to adjust for your tub size. Vacation is going to be tricky. I would find a friend who can add a couple of ounces of bleach every day or so just to make sure. If you leave for 8 days, when you get back you are going to have a very infected tub. One note about FC, it can be burnt up very quickly with bad mojo in your tub. I worked on a buddies pool that was looking worse than most lakes, he had about 1/2" of water clarity. We added chlorine up to 40ppm and in 20 minutes it was all gone. long story short, we had to add a total of 190ppm chlorine before we were able to keep a stable FC of 25ppm for any duration. So in a nutshell, if your tub is dirty, you can burn through chlorine rather quickly until everything is dead.

I think you could get by with 60ppm CYA if you had to. If the weather was poor and it was starting to freeze out, I would be inclined to leave my water alone and begin using a unstabilized chlorine. Another option would be to remove 50% of your water and refill. This would leave your CYA at 30ppm. And again, switch to unstabilized chlorine. I would most likely drop the EZ-spa routine, as I do not agree with adding chemicals just because it's Sunday. I think you should add them when your water requires. I would begin using Nitro's method, firstly by superchlorinating it with unstabilized chlorine, and then make sure to maintain my FC levels with the same unstabilized chlorine. I would switch to MPS for shocking when my combined chlorine is above .5ppm. After that I would enjoy my super easy to maintain spa.

You really need to get a drop type test kit. The test strips are very, very inconsistent in their readings. For chlorine levels, use the pool calculator and it will give you the recommended FC levels for your spa at a given CYA level. Just enter in all your information and read through the page. Towards the bottom is where it gives you your recommended FC and shock levels. Some find it uncomfortable to soak in a tub with such high chlorine levels as required when your CYA is so high. That is why most will just drain and switch to Nitro's dichlor/bleach method. That method instructs you to use dichlor (which contains 9ppm CYA to every 10ppm chlorine) until your CYA hits 30ppm. Then you switch to an unstabilized chlorine source. Most find that Clorox bleach is the most inexpensive and readily available source of chlorine. I personally run my CYA at 30ppm and keep my free chlorine between 2-5ppm at all times. I use Clorox.

well...the first thing you are going to need to know is your CYA level....if you have been using dichlor exclusively for over a month and have not changed the water I suspect your CYA levels will be very high...like 100-150ppm. In essence CYA retards your available chlorine's ability to sanitize your water. In a nut shell, the higher your CYA, the more Free Chlorine you will need to sanitize you water. Secondly the difference between Free Chlorine and Total Chlorine is Combined chlorine. So if you have 1ppm Free Chlorine and 3ppm Total Chlorine, you have 2ppm Combined chlorine. Combined chlorine is chlorine that has already done its job and just hanging around in your water. If your Combined Chlorine is above .5ppm you should shock your tub with either chlorine, or with MPS. Assuming you have the proper CYA of 30ppm, a good hard shock level would be about 20ppm FC, if your CYA is at 150 you would need about 80ppm FC. One thing about "shocking"...for some people there seems to be some magical meaning to this...all you are doing is oxidizing the waste and combined chlorine out of your tub. If you were to superchlorinate your tub, you will be "shocking" it at the same time. There is nothing special about it. One caveat, if you have a high CYA level, you should really drain your tub and start over. That is the only way to reduce your CYA level. If you CYA levels are high.....you are kind of up a creek...you are just going to have to bite the bullet and do a water change. Good reading would be Nitro's approach to water maintenance: http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13634 And use the pool calculator: http://www.poolcalculator.com I hope this helps....good luck.

You could superchlorinate your tub and wait for the FC to drop down to an acceptable level before you go in....I would think that would pretty much kill anything...what do you think Chem Geek?

Friends don't let friends use test strips. I would get a nice Taylor drop kit like the K2006 or something like that after you use up your other dropper kit. As to bromine I know nothing about that.....someone else will have to help you on that one.

I have been using TSP for quite a while now....it seems to work great. When its cold I cheat and put them in my dishwasher(after the tsp soak)...hey it's Minnesota and -10 out this morning. I just make sure to catch it before it goes to rinse, I don't think Jet Dry would be good on my filters. Anyways....when I do a filter change my chlorine demand does go down substantially. If someone were to just randomly change my filters, I could tell by the CD. With that said, I do think my filters become riddled with organic matter over the course of about 3-4 weeks. So for a product like peroxide with a limited amount of sanitizing ability, I would surmise filter changes should be done very frequently. I start to notice a CD change at about week 2. Oddly though, it does level out after week 5 and does not rise after that. But at that point it is approaching 45% compared to about 15% when the filters are fresh. That's too big of a spread for me, so I try to keep them clean.

Easy turbo....no one was slinging mud.

Wow...this post is kind of old! Hope "The Man" does not still have you feeling down Chem Geek. I hopped on this forum way after this post was started, So I didn't know you were a punching bag for a while. Just a heads up, your expertise and advice has made my tubbing experience much, much better. I am down to about 5-10 minutes per week of attention that my tub needs for maintenance. On another note, I understand how you can feel about getting beat up on a forum, as you have probably noticed about my posts, some are a bit on the edge...I get a little carried away. This leaves me open to a whole bunch of sucker punches. never sweat the petty....but make sure pet the.....well I think you know the rest! Thanks again!

The industry as a whole is lacking real integrity. The problem is the dealers....or what they call dealers. The manufacturers allow any jackass to sell their products, and that makes for lousy dealers. Not all dealers are bad, many are good. Some are just misguided...some are downright dishonest. I would find a dealer that you like, one that does not exhibit their insecurities about their product by bashing everyone else. I think the hot tub industry would do itself well by taking a cue from the automobile manufacturers and forcing dealerships to be honest. The only way to do that is to be restrictive with whom you do business with (as a manufacturer) and to educate those that you do choose. I come from a strong sales background and can tell you that most of the crap you have to deal with in the hot tub industry is because the salesperson sucks. He lies...and then the boss does not want to throw him under the bus, so he lies...and then the service guy has to agree with the boss so he says the customer screwed it up...and it just goes on. Bottom line...FIND A GOOD DEALER AND THE REST WILL FOLLOW.