bart6453

My advice at this point is always the same. Once you get to the point where you think you've been given their best price but you want to see if you an eek out a little more there is one simple, effective approach I like, store credit. You seem to be getting all the immediate needs with the package they presented but you'll need more chems and who knows what else later so I'd say "give me $200 (or whatever) in store credit for future needs and I'll make the deal". Store credit is always more preferable to them than lowering the price the same amount and they'll know you're coming back to the store for the chems but you'll have post sale needs anyway so its a good way to seal the deal for both sides and get a little more your way. +1 Store credit is a great idea.

That's a game changer. You are bumming,

They are right, TSP will cause foaming...IF you don't rinse your filter properly and completely. TSP is some wonderful stuff....just make sure to give it a good rinse.

you know, I looked at the small spa online a few minutes ago from Hot springs, and Jacuzzi and Sundance, I love them, the salespeople always try to talk me out of them, they do not have them in the store, but say they are tiny, I don't believe that, I think they just want to sell the bigger more expensive ones., I am not gonna be able to get the more expensive one, so I am gonna get a 2-3 person one, either hot springs, jacuzzi or sundance, (all local stores with local repair) if hubby doesn't want to get in it with me, then I will be in it alone, but free of this horrible fibromyalgia pain, a smaller spa will be cheaper to operate also, my mind is made up, thanks so much!! I will be able to get a spa, and a deck to put it on for less than the cost of the larger spa. (I didn't want a large spa anyway, the salespeople wanted me to buy the larger spa) You may be right about them wanting to sell you something bigger or in stock. Another angle you may want to think about is this: They don't want to deal with your trade in when you realize it's too small in about a year. We have this problem all the time with motorcycles, people find a bike that fits their budget but not their lifestyle. In the end most buy the one that fits their budget, against our advice. They love biking but their purchase needs to be replaced with a bigger model. Needless to say, they are never happy with the trade number and we are stuck with a turd that was hard to sell when new, let alone when it's been used for a year. So....they may just be looking out for your best interests too. Your mileage may vary.

I use TSP and hot water. I just soak the filters for about 12-24 hours and then rinse very well with tons of water. I will tell you that from my experience as your filters get more dirty, your CD will rise. When you install a clean set of filters your CD will immediately drop. I clean my filters when my CD reaches about 40%, or at about the 60 day mark. Whichever comes first. I also recommend having two sets of filters as previously mentioned.

Go to www.poolcalculator.com Click on the icon saying available on the iPhone app store. If you still can't get to it from there you do not have the necessary aptitude to use the program to begin with...so give up and move on.

There is a whole bunch of stuff you shouldn't do when drinking. Most I find are just bs to make sure you don't file a lawsuit. As said by others....moderation is key! About the only thing I really don't think you should do is drink and shoot guns. 1.7 million deer hunters in Minnesota spending the day before hunting opener at the shack boozing it up till 2 AM and then stumbling to the deer stand with a high powered rifle at 4 AM.....dohhhhh Thankfully most fall alseep. You are very right....and it's scary. Had an guy I knew go hunting with his dad after a few drinks a couple of years ago. He slipped and shot is dad when they where crossing the fence. Thinking he killed his dad because he was laying there unconscious....he killed himself. Now his dad feels pretty bad about the whole deal as he has fully recovered. The bullet just clipped his skull and knocked him out. Anyways...yup...I drink in the tub.

There is a whole bunch of stuff you shouldn't do when drinking. Most I find are just bs to make sure you don't file a lawsuit. As said by others....moderation is key! About the only thing I really don't think you should do is drink and shoot guns. 1.7 million deer hunters in Minnesota spending the day before hunting opener at the shack boozing it up till 2 AM and then stumbling to the deer stand with a high powered rifle at 4 AM.....dohhhhh Thankfully most fall alseep. You are very right....and it's scary. Had an guy I knew go hunting with his dad after a few drinks a couple of years ago. He slipped and shot is dad when they where crossing the fence. Thinking he killed his dad because he was laying there unconscious....he killed himself. Now his dad feels pretty bad about the whole deal as he has fully recovered. The bullet just clipped his skull and knocked him out. Anyways...yup...I drink in the tub.

There is a whole bunch of stuff you shouldn't do when drinking. Most I find are just bs to make sure you don't file a lawsuit. As said by others....moderation is key! About the only thing I really don't think you should do is drink and shoot guns.

+1

I think a good place to start is with Nitro's approach to water maintenance. As far as I understand you will need to add borates if you already have not to help stabilize the ph. Again, take a look at nitro's thread on water maintenance on this board. It is a great place to start with water maintenance.

I would test my TA just to know where it is at. In function, I have found that while good information to know, my PH swing is more indicative of whether my TA is too high or too low. If my TA is too high my PH tends to rise, if my TA is too low my PH tends to lower, once my TA is right on the PH seems to lock and stays there for literally months at a time. As you add PH down, your TA will also decrease. As to your CYA, for every dichlor adds 9ppm CYA for every 10ppm FC. For me it usually takes about 2 weeks to achieve 25pm CYA. I found it very easy to pre-measure the amount of dichlor I need to add to get to 25ppm CYA. Then just add from the measured amount until it's gone, when gone I switch to bleach. I highly recommend using the pool calculator and the ipod/iphone pool calculator application.

I would be vary wary about changing labels on anything, let alone bleach. You will want to check national, state, and local laws about hazardous liquids. Also, you will want to check laws regarding relabeling chemicals and possible legal issues due to product infringement. From a civil point, if something very bad were to happen, I would hate to be in front of the jury explaining why you wanted to keep it from your customers that you were actually just selling them chlorox bleach. Then the customer's attorney would counter with the wonderful statement..."if they had only been informed by the defendant that it was bleach they would have handled the product differently and little Johhny would still be able to talk and see." The best course would be to educate the people about chlorine and bleach so that you don't have to hide the truth from them.

The water went south because I forgot to top up the bleach after the last use and it was low, then I was away for a few days unexpectedly so it got no maintenance. When I got back it was light brown tinge and bad odor. I shocked it well with Dychlor and MPS, then lots of bleach later. It came back very well and looks fine. I just hadn't taken a full drop test reading in a while so I did them all and found TA higher then usual and pH as well. Now I see CYA up near 100 and wonder if the water will stay OK or am I going to need to dump this eventually. My hope is to lower the CYA and maintain the water as I was doing with Bleach & MPS. It was going so well! Greg Use the pool calculator to figure out how much water to remove and then replace. (If you have an ipod, get the pool calculator app, tis a thing of beauty!) Next time you shock with chlorine, use bleach as not to add additional CYA.

My thoughts....if you want them..are this. You seem to be getting in over your head. You need some time with real world spa care to be able to run a consulting/care business for spa water quality. Your questions seem to indicate that you have very little working knowledge of spa water maintenance. Also, you seem to be building and basing a business on the advice from this board. While this board is by far the best source of real world spa care advice. I would never use an internet board as a basis for my future business's operating process without first having an intimate knowledge of the advice that I am being given. With that said, Chem Geek's information is always spot on, and very, very good. For me I trust his advice more than anyone else I have talked to in person, or via internet board. Keep in mind that the people that the best advice for your business will come from people who's best interests align with you and your business. No one on here has a vested interest in you or your business success. Take that for what it's worth. Not trying to be a jerk, or tell you what do to, or how to do it....but I am just concerned that you may not have your poop in a group for the job you are trying to accomplish. In the end, an improperly maintained hot tub can be a very, very dangerous place to be.

careful..the throttle might stick.

Shock your tub when your combined chlorine exceeds .5ppm At least that's what I do.

First off I am sure that 1700 lbs is empty spas with water can get up to 2 tons. If the dealer says ok and he will service it go for it. I have seen them on pea gravel got to fix it right away if it sinks or shifts It's a small spa. 460 lbs dry, 1700 and change filled. That's only about 150 gallons of water.....are you sure????? I would pour concrete not matter the weight....it's cheap and easy to pour and permanent.

Could have been a bad connection between the fuse and the block....or something else that you wiggled. I would remove the fuses and make sure they are making good contact, also check all the associated wiring to make sure nothing is loose and causing a momentary open. or it could be a case of PFM....Pure F'ing Magic....and yes...that is a technical term.

I took my info off of my Xcel energy bill that I got yesterday. Some may be inclined to add hyperbole to their numbers. I did build a garage at the same time we added the tub, but there is not much going on other than an occasional light here and there. Other than that our energy usage should not have changed at all.

Strangly I had the same thing happen to my circ pump one time during a water change. Everything was working just fine, did a quick water change, re filled it and my damn circ pump took a crap. Very strange coincidence if you ask me...but that's murphy for you. Had a snowmobile that was running poorly two nights ago, so I rebuilt the carb and it wouldnt start after I put it all back together.....took me all night to finally figure that the ignition switch crapped out when I turned it off to pull the carb and that the newly rebuilt carb was just fine. I hate murphy.

That's a negative Ghost Rider....the Trichlor is acidic, and will drop your PH drastically.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but I have a 08 Vanguard that is used every night for 30-60 minutes, in an extremely cold climate, and my bills have been about $20-25 more per month in the winter months than before the tub.....and worth it...BTW- my electricity is relatively cheap, at .12 per KW, so that helps, too. If you can afford the VG, go for it over the Sovereign.... Randy I have a pretty well insulated Jacuzzi.....I just got my electric bill and it averaged $1.90 per day to run the tub. There was a 2 week period when it was -25F and we were using the tub 2-3 days a week. I know it's not a HS but I can say it is using more energy than I am truly thrilled over...but what can you do? I am getting electricity at about $.10 per KWH, my usage is up 19KWH per day. Our average temperature during my billing cycle was 15F. Hope this helps a little.

Use the feel, felt, found routine....works pretty well in most circumstances. Here's an example.... I understand your situation, I can identify with being overwhelmed by a dropper kit and interested in the ease of use that test strips seemingly bring to the table. (feel) Before I started using the Taylor kits I was forced to make the same decision between connivence and accuracy. (felt) Once I read the instructions on the Taylor kit and began using it, I realized that the Taylor kit brought both to the table. I found that I can test my water more quickly and more accurately using the Taylor kit. I am never second guessing my readings, and find no need to re-test to confirm my readings. (felt) This would be good for one on one verbal sales. yes..feel, felt, found is campy...but the customer never knows you are doing it and never notices..I PROMISE. If you were to put it on paper I would do it much differently. Something like this...... in bold big letters........HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU RETEST YOUR WATER WITH STRIPS???? then go into a "use a taylor kit and never second guess your water readings again" "get the right answers and all the answers in one box. " "save time by never needing to re-test your water due to inconsistent readings" do a cost break down and include a margin of say 10% retests for the strips since they suck and everyone knows you need to recheck all the time. put the cost breakdown of a years reagent supply and a test strip supply side by side. Then maybe put a little blurb in there about how Taylors test kits are trusted by and used by more municipal water treatment centers than anything else. maybe a line like "get professional testing results and water quality for a fraction of the price of test strips" or "would you trust your drinking water to (science class??) test strips? We wouldnt, you don't, and your city doesn't either, so why trust your spa water to strips?" or "how safe is your water?, test strips will never tell" The one liners just keep coming........I have a little problem with bending the truth when it comes to sales pitches....I love the pitchs

The Taylor kits are so complete and easy to use with excellent instructions that no tips or tricks are necessary. They work as advertised and give you extremely consistent results every time.