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bart6453

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Posts posted by bart6453

  1. I was considering switching to hydrogen peroxide some time ago and really wanted to, the only problem was I could not find any available in my area. Where the hell do you get it?

    NASA

    Seriously.....it's bad mojo...just say no to peroxide.

  2. Nobody has any thing for this????...guess its time for a refill..sorry

    I looked outside today and found my spa water very cloudy. On Saturday, I changed out the water, backwashed the DE filter, added new DE, added muriatic acid, and chlorinated. Today's water test revealed TA = 150, and pH = 7.7. This puzzled me because the TA was 100 on Easter Sunday.

    Then I discovered a rag at the bottom of the spa. Over the weekend I cleaned the kitchen floors with Pine Sol (1/2 cup in 1 gallon of water). When I was done, I set the rags outside to dry.

    At some point, the wind blew that rag into the spa. I'm guessing the cloudiness and higher TA is because of the Pine Sol residue on the rag.

    Question: Does the water need to be changed out again, for health sake?

    Never bathed in pine sol, regardless of the concentration.

    I am sure Clorox would tell you to change the water if you called them about it.

    A water change is less than $25......go that route.

  3. Hi,

    For a past 4 months I apply the bleach method in my spa.

    The water chemistry was good and stable.

    My PH best stability number was set at 7.7 with TA at around 45-49.

    Last week I was behind with adding chlorine one day.

    The Chlorine level drop to around 0.

    Now after a week I've notice my Free And Total Chlorine are out of balance.

    My numbers are :

    F.ch 2.99

    T.ch 3.99

    PH 78

    TA 63

    My concern is F.ch and T.ch

    What should I do in the case like this when the difference is 1.0 between this 2 numbers.(or even smaller#)

    My first though is to super chlorinate up to 10ppm.

    Can you please give me some advise.

    Thanks

    Adam

    All you have going on is a bit of unoxidized waste. Typically at the point where you are at is when people shock it or "super chlorinate" Use the pool calculator to determine what level to shock your tub at with chlorine based on your current CYA level. Another alternative is to keep some MPS around and add that when your combined chlorine reaches or exceeds .5ppm. (this is what I do as I don't like to close my tub for a day while the FC level drops)

    You will also notice higher CC after heavy bather loads.

    FYI: The difference between FC and TC is Combined Chlorine....I am sure you already knew that but just thought it prudent to put it in the post.

  4. Sorry, I thought you were talking about normal pool/spa conditions. Yes of course PH at the extremes of both ends will be corrosive to most metals. Given many chemical tanks are made out of fiberglass, that should hold up better than the metal but could still damage the surface. I think exposure time also plays a role. Are you planning an experiment or disposing of a body? :huh:

    Recommendations from Dow:

    http://www.dow.com/causticsoda/safety/material.htm

    My tub got up to PH 10.7 and I ran out of dry acid last night, wondering if 10.7 is damaging for an overnight stay in my tub : )

    Wow! Presume you're reporting the water in your spa and not some substance found on the fiberglass... how did you come up with a pH of 10.7? (what test or instrumentation)? If this is a meter, was it properly calibrated? That just seems too high to be accepted easily. You could ameliorate high pH in spa water by incorporating an acid ... including muriatic acid or weaker substances such as vinegar or lemon juice. But I would double check the measurement... and consider draining and refilling the spa after application, as well.

    Do any of you other AG spa owners encounter pH levels this high?

    Holy...ph at 10.7??? That's about as high as ammonia.

    You must have a misreading. How in the hell could it get that high?

    Rarely does my ph get above 7.6

  5. What can I use as a replacement for dry acid? Can I use sulfuric acid drain cleaner? Vinegar?

    It's a 30 min drive to get more chemicals, so this would be a one time fix; any suggestions?

    Since you are going to need some anyways....I would say drive the 30 minutes and get some dry acid.

  6. What can I use to clean my filters without buying a commercial cleaning solution.

    soak them in a TSP and warm water solution overnight. Then rinse very, very well.

    Any recommended TSP products? I tried cascade and bleach with water. So So results.

    TSP is the chemical...you can get it in the paint department at most hardware stores.

  7. I think you have something going on in your tub, something dirty.

    I would keep it at super shock levels for a few days at least and keep checking it.

    I would also start using MPS to start lowering your CC more quickly and assist your chlorine.

    Yeah, that's what I'm beginning to think too. The guy I bought the tub from went out of town the week before I got it. So he may have had it full for a week with no chemical attention at all.

    I thought a full 182 oz jug of bleach, overnight decon, and new filter would take care of any issues, but I'm beginning to think maybe not. Maybe there's some biofilm or something that's going to take a lot of FC and time to resolve.

    At 10pm tonight, I had:

    TA = 80; pH = 7.6; FC = 9; CC = 1.0

    Remember at lunchtime I had 8.5 FC and added 8 oz of Bleach (so ~10ppm FC). That means, I should've had about 18.5 FC.

    So again, I must've lost ~50% of FC in about 12 hours.

    Well, with a measured residual of 9ppm FC, I figured it would be ok to have a soak. So, we spent about 1.5 bather-hours in the tub. Afterward, I thought I'd go ahead and shock the heck out of it. I added 40 oz of bleach (should be ~50ppm FC). I'll see what I've got left tomorrow. I might wait a full 24 hours to get a real read on FC Demand.

    I would do a 24 hour CD reading just to be sure. As your sample time increases your margin of error decreases.

    Have you changed/cleaned the filters of the tub?

    Dirty filters can contribute to CD.

  8. Tuesday:

    I went home at lunch and checked. So this is about 12 hours after I added 4oz Bleach (~5ppm FC) to the tub when it already measured 13.5ppm FC.

    TA = 70; pH = 7.5; FC = 8.5; CC = 1.5

    *So FC was down from what should've been ~18.5ppm to 8.5ppm in just 12 hours.

    *I added another 8oz (10ppm FC) of Bleach.

    I added 16oz of bleach on last night, and that should've raise FC about 19ppm.

    If an hour later, FC was just 13.5ppm, what does that mean? Does that mean there was a lot of ammonia/urea that combined quickly? Does that mean I probably have a lot of chloramine in the tub now to oxidize?

    I think you have something going on in your tub, something dirty.

    I would keep it at super shock levels for a few days at least and keep checking it.

    I would also start using MPS to start lowering your CC more quickly and assist your chlorine.

    I read your post above the last, and honestly just don't have the brainpower left tonight to give you an answer worthy of the question...tough day at the bike shop.

  9. I got a used 400 gal Jacuzzi Model 340 (~10 years old) off Craigslist.

    I started off doing a decon last Wed. I added an entire 182 oz jug of bleach, which should've put FC up over 200ppm. I ran the tub with high jets for about an hour, opening and closing the air controls every 10-15 minutes or so. Then, I turned it down to circulation, and let it run overnight.

    Thurs:

    Drained, installed a new filter, filled and tested for baseline.

    CH = 190; TA = 160; pH = 7.9; FC = 0

    *I added 24oz of Borax to get my borates up to 50.

    *I added 12oz of Acid to lower pH, TA, and balance the Borax.

    *I added 10 oz of Bleach (~12ppm FC).

    *I added 1 oz HTH Stabilizer/Conditioner.

    Friday:

    I was surprised with all the stuff I added, everything seemed to zero in on what I was aiming for. Beginner's luck, I guess.

    TA = 80; CYA = just under 30; pH = 7.5; FC = 4.5

    *I added 4 oz Bleach (~5ppm FC).

    *We were kind of excited, and it was Friday night. So we invited some friends over, and there were probably 8 bather-hours spent in the tub.

    *I added 8oz Bleach afterward (~10ppm FC).

    Saturday:

    Crap! FC went to zero. I knew I should've tested instead of just throwing 8oz of bleach at it and assuming that'd be good.

    pH = 7.9; FC = 0

    *I added 20 oz Bleach (~24ppm FC).

    *I added 2 oz of Acid.

    Sunday:

    I wanted to check to see if TA had moved since the acid and aerating Friday night. I also wanted to make sure my CYA hadn't depleted when the FC was zero:

    TA = 40; CYA = just under 30; pH = 6.8; FC = 4; CC = .5

    *I added 4 oz of Baking Soda to raise the TA.

    *I added 2 oz of Borax to raise the pH. So now my Borates must = 54.

    *Since I still had FC left, I thought it'd be safe for the wife and I to have a quick soak. The two of us were in the tub maybe 20 min, so <1 bather-hour.

    *I added 8 oz of Bleach after the soak (~10ppm FC).

    Monday:

    Crap! FC back to zero, and I overshot the pH.

    CH = 170; TA = 90; pH = 8.0; FC = 0

    *I added 16 oz of Bleach (~20ppm FC)

    *I added 1 oz of Acid.

    *I added 2 oz of HTH Defoamer because I noticed foam during the Sunday night soak.

    An hour later:

    pH = 7.5; FC = 13.5

    *I was concerned that a third of FC was used up in an hour. So I added another 4oz (~5ppm FC) for good measure.

    I think at this point, I have to just stay on top of pH and TA, and keep shocking to an FC above 10ppm and not use the tub until FC demand is 50% or less. Is that the right track?

    You seem to have a very good handle on your situation. My recommendation for changing ph & TA would be to calculate the amount of chemicals you are to add and then halve it. Add that and recheck in an hour or so. Then calculate and half it again....keep doing that until you hit your mark. That way you don't overshoot. which is utterly frustrating.

    As to using so much chlorine, you mentioned foam...which means you must be getting in with suits and clothes and such. I have noticed our CD going up dramatically when we have fabrics in the tub.

    To keep your CD down a you may try adding MPS just before the soak and then add your bleach after. MPS really helps your chlorine out.

  10. It turns out that the control panel easily switches between 115v and 230v motors. I just moved one wire and everything is good now.

    Still pretty annoying that they don't know what pump they put in their own spa. I know better than to trust the people I order from I should of checked the old pump myself.

    Could have superseded. If so....they should have had the bulletin in the package.

    Secondarily, it is your responsibility to make sure you are getting the right parts, and to check fitment prior to buttoning up a job. (including voltage)

  11. OK got the Tub last Tuesday, Jacuzzi j-365. So we have had water in it for 5 days. So far I am very happy with it. Here are my numbers from the Taylor kit.

    City Water

    FC 6.6 this is high

    CC 0.0 can this really be correct?

    PH 7.5

    TA 130

    CH 130

    CYA 69 this is high

    Yesterdays numbers

    FC 1.0

    CC 0.5

    PH 7.5

    TA 140

    CH 120

    CYA 20 I dont think I did the CYA test right this day as I forgot to mix for 30 seconds.

    As one would expect it had a high bather count during the last 5 days I guess around 32, 20 minute sessions .

    Any feed back would as always be appreciated. THANKS

    Looking pretty good, I would stop with the dichlor when you get to 30ppm CYA. Switch to an unstabilized chlorine, I.E. Bleach.

    Maybe introduce some borates to help stabilize your PH, and then lower your TA a bit....if you TA is too high it will tend to pull your PH up. If you get it just right, it really locks in your PH and it won't change much for months.

    Keep your FC from 1-5ppm and shock with MPS or chlorine when your CC gets to .5 or above.

    Use the pool calculator for your calculations and if you have an iPhone/iPod get the pool calculator app.

    Looks like you have a pretty good handle on things....good luck!

  12. I recently replaced my circulation pump because the seal went bad and it was leaking water. I got the new pump in and started it up but I noticed the motor seemed to be getting pretty hot. A short while later the pump shut down (overheat protection I assume).

    Any suggestions, on what can be wrong? The hookup seemed pretty straight forward but I guess I got something wrong.

    I know very little about spa packs specifically....but what I do know is if your voltage is lower than it should be all your equipment will be running at a higher temperature.

  13. One of the first questions she asked me was if I was in Canada (thankfully I'm not). She said based on the high shipping costs to Canada, they were going to not ship to Canada anymore.

    I don't think it was the high shipping costs, but rather that all the posts here finally got seen by someone who told Lowry or Taylor about what was going on and according to the exclusive agreement between Lowry and Taylor for Canada, Amato was probably told that they would no longer be allowed to resell Taylor if they shipped to Canada. At least that's my best guess of what probably happened.

    That is extremely plausable.

    We ONCE sold a bike to Canada because the owner really, really, wanted to sell that particular model because it was a turd. I advised him of the S%$T storm that would follow...he laughed at me.

    After 3 form letters to all 650 dealers about how serious it is to sell a new bike in another country and many calls threatening to pull our dealership....the mothership backed off and told us never to do it again....in a much less polite and forceful manner.

    Selling products is very across borders is very serious for many companies....I assume Taylor is one of them.

  14. Had our new tub about two weeks and been trying to get a handle on the water setup but I'm finding two different values for the water capacity for this tub. One place says 400 gal the other says 545??

    This is enough difference to affect my chemical usage.

    Any thoughts?

    thanks

    Ken

    One could be the maximum capacity if filled until it overflows...the other could be a standard usage capacity where it is filled to the recommended "full" position.

    If you really need to know and can't figure it out I would just call the manufacturer.

  15. It is a lot, but his dealer instructed him to initially add 2-4 ounces...yes....ounces of dichlor for start up.

    Then the dealer instructed him to add 2-4 ounces of dichlor after heavy use....i.e. 3-4 people.

    I suspect his tub was superchlorinated the entire period, as witnessed by his current FC of over 10ppm and a CYA over 80.

    The dealer should maybe tone down the amount of dichlor they recommend using, or use a proper PPM recommendation as opposed to volumes of dichlor.

    Anyways....moot point...we don't care about the dealer....just Ken's water quality.

    It's done and over, it's in the tub.

    So with this high CYA, I should probably maintain my FC level at around 10, 12,... (since the CYA is reducing the effectiveness of the chlorine added (bleach). I see that if my CYA was around 30 then I'd modulate the FC between 2-6. Does this make

    sense then that I should maintain the higher level of FC?

    thanks

    Ken

    It does make sense, but I have no experience running my tub at that high of a FC. I know the recommendation is that you keep it at 5ppm FC or below before entering the tub. I have heard from people on here that they soak at up to 10ppm FC with no problems.

    Chem Geek may need to chime in here with a little better working knowlege of keeping your tub at that high a FC.

    Another thought is that it seems CYA does degrade over time, so over the course of a few months your CYA may drop a bit too.

    Looks like you are getting good use out of the pool calculator...good for you! If you have an ipod/iphone get it for that too...it's awesome! (and very impressive when you can whip out your device and have the answers in seconds.)

  16. It is a lot, but his dealer instructed him to initially add 2-4 ounces...yes....ounces of dichlor for start up.

    Then the dealer instructed him to add 2-4 ounces of dichlor after heavy use....i.e. 3-4 people.

    I suspect his tub was superchlorinated the entire period, as witnessed by his current FC of over 10ppm and a CYA over 80.

    The dealer should maybe tone down the amount of dichlor they recommend using, or use a proper PPM recommendation as opposed to volumes of dichlor.

    Anyways....moot point...we don't care about the dealer....just Ken's water quality.

    It's done and over, it's in the tub.

  17. My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

    Here's my Taylor kit results:

    pH = 7.8

    FC = 10.2

    TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

    Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

    CYA = 82 ppm

    -------------------------------------

    MPS OK range as tested by test strip

    (the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

    Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

    to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

    Suggestions, comments?

    Thanks

    Ken

    Just for my own education in trying to understand all this, how does CYA get so high after 1-2 weeks of a new tub??

    Does well water have CYA? I assume tap water doesn't?

    I'm just reaching 30 CYA after 1.5 weeks of Dichlor, and my FC has been running in the 3.0 range after 24 hours, so I've been adding a little too much Dichlor to get up to the magic 30 CYA.

    Switching to bleach tonight though :D

    EDIT: Just thought, could the high FC content give a false CYA reading?

    Your CYA is in your Dichlor. Every 10ppm FC via Dichlor adds 9ppm CYA.

    Typically this takes me about two weeks to get to 30ppm CYA using dichlor, then I switch to bleach.

    I have never heard of a high FC causing a false CYA reading. but having that high of a FC does indicate lots of dichlor usage. Which would in-turn show high cya.

    That's my point. To get to 82 ppm of CYA he would have to add 91ppm of Dichlor which would be 219 ounces of Dichlor :o

    And he says "this is week 2 of our new tub", so he hasn't even reached 2 weeks yet.

    Your math is wrong....91ppm FC via dichlor is achieved with 8.8 ounces in a 400 gallon tub.

    if you used 219 ounces of dichlor in a 400 gallon tub you would achieve a FC level of about 2,500ppm.

    Make sure to change your pool size in the pool calculator...I suspect it's still at the default 10,000 gallon pool volume.

  18. My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

    Here's my Taylor kit results:

    pH = 7.8

    FC = 10.2

    TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

    Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

    CYA = 82 ppm

    -------------------------------------

    MPS OK range as tested by test strip

    (the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

    Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

    to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

    Suggestions, comments?

    Thanks

    Ken

    Just for my own education in trying to understand all this, how does CYA get so high after 1-2 weeks of a new tub??

    Does well water have CYA? I assume tap water doesn't?

    I'm just reaching 30 CYA after 1.5 weeks of Dichlor, and my FC has been running in the 3.0 range after 24 hours, so I've been adding a little too much Dichlor to get up to the magic 30 CYA.

    Switching to bleach tonight though :D

    EDIT: Just thought, could the high FC content give a false CYA reading?

    Your CYA is in your Dichlor. Every 10ppm FC via Dichlor adds 9ppm CYA.

    Typically this takes me about two weeks to get to 30ppm CYA using dichlor, then I switch to bleach.

    I have never heard of a high FC causing a false CYA reading. but having that high of a FC does indicate lots of dichlor usage. Which would in-turn show high cya.

  19. My Taylor 2006 test kit arrived today. I was looking forward to its arrival but worried if I could learn how to use it before using up all my reagents. This is week 2 of our new tub, started week one with the dealer recommended water treatment but I'm going to be switching over to the Nitro method but the 1st week was the dealer method. I have a 500 gal tub with an ozonator.

    Here's my Taylor kit results:

    pH = 7.8

    FC = 10.2

    TA - 80-90 ppm (OK, I added two drops from the kit so it was either 80 or 90)

    Calcium Hardness = 170 ppm

    CYA = 82 ppm

    -------------------------------------

    MPS OK range as tested by test strip

    (the one test I had a problem reading was the Calcium Hardness (partially color bland that I am)

    Seems to me the CYA is way higher then Nitro calls for. I guess this was a result of adding

    to much Dichlor ? Not sure what to do about it... leave it as is and just keep a higher level of free chlorine?

    Suggestions, comments?

    Thanks

    Ken

    Looking pretty good, I would drop the ph to 7.5 (that's where I keep mine.)

    The free chlorine is pretty high, I would shoot for more around the 2-5ppm range.

    Your TA should be good if you switch to Nitro's method and add some borates....which are wonderful by the way.

    Your CYA is already a bit high, most like to run it at 20-30ppm. As the CYA increases your chlorines ability to react with organics is diminished. In function this makes it necessary to have a higher Free Chlorine to do the same amount of sanitation work. You should stop using Di-Chlor immediately. for every 10ppm FC added via dichlor, you add 9ppm CYA.

    As to the calcium hardness I wouldnt worry too much about that either.

    Back to the PH and alkalinity, you will find that your ph will stabilize when you get the right alkalinity. If you alkalinity is too low, your PH will want to swing lower, if your alkalinity is too high you ph will tend to swing high. As you add small amounts to correct your ph it you will eventually change your alkalinity to the proper reading and your ph will functionally lock. Borates help this, and Nitro explains it much better in his water maintenance thread.

    I think your TA is pretty close to where you want it so no major adjustments should be necessary.

    One technique that works pretty good for adding chemicals (other than sanitizer) is to figure out the theoretical amount to be added via the pool calculator. then half that measurment and add it to your tub. come back in a half an hour, re-test, figure the theoretical amount, halve it, and add it. Do this until you hit your target measurements. This really helps avoid overshooting and yo-yo'ing.

    Good luck...you are well on your way.

  20. I'm curiuos to know what type of cover lifter you are using? I am planning to buy a tub soon and having a hard time deciding which lifter to get. I will have 12" or less clearance to my house. I'd love some advice!

    I have mine about 12" from my house. I have not found a need to have it any further away.

    12" gives you the ability to use a cover lifter and such.

    Even if I did have to move it to service it, I would just have to drain the water....which costs about $5 to replace and maybe another $10 to heat from 45 degrees to 100.

    So....I wouldnt worry too much.

  21. It depends on how hot and what pressure the steam is.

    Most "steam cleaners" I've seen are really high pressure hot washers. It is a pressure washer with a water heater, that heats the pressurized water to near boiling. I don't think it would be a good idea or necessary to clean a spa with something like that.

    Dave

    +1

  22. Ken, sounds like you have a really great start on taking care of your tub.

    One question....what kind of chlorine are you using?? If you are using di-chlor and are thinking about adding 2-4 ounces....assuming you have a 400 gallon tub, that's going to be about 40ppm FC....which by now you know is WAY too high.

    Just checked it, it is "Rendezvous Chlorinating Concentrate Granular".

    (active ingredient: Sodium Dichloro-s-Triazinetrionc Dihydrate)

    Is this dichlor that I keep seeing mentioned?

    Is there a cheaper version of Dichlor available?

    thanks

    Ken

    That is dichlor.

    I use Nitro's method, so I use very little dichlor and mostly bleach for my chlorine supply.

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