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Ari

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  1. Well this sounds silly, but I feel like the water seems just a tiny bit fresher and cleaner after using the cal hypo as opposed to the liquid I normally use, which like most I get refilled at the pool store. Also, I had gotten a good deal on a case of leslie's power powder plus and would like to not waste it. So for these reasons I'd like to add a bag once a month as long as I can sort of get away with the added calcium, as I said, I'm at 300 now, how high can I go before I hit problems? I tried to use the pool calc. But it didn't seem to work, because it appeared to be saying I could, actually SHOULD let my CH go VERY high, like 600, to get close to 0, at 600 ppm it had my index at +.02 My numbers were: ph on average is 7.6 ta is 50 temp is 87 FC around 6 CYA 50 it seemed to say I could go higher than 600 ppm CH and still be near 0. Am I doing it wrong?
  2. When my pool was new, the CH hovered around 260-270. I chlorinate with liquid chlorine, but I do occasionally put in a bag of cal hypo, I like the results of adding the cal hypo once every month or so, but after a year or so, I have seen my CH creeping up, partly I'm sure because of the cal hypo once a month, also since the pool is still fairly new. My question is this, I'd like to be able to add a bag of cal hypo once a month to my 15,000 gallon gunite/plaster pool, my CH is currently around 290-300, at what level should I consider my CH so high I must stop the monthly bag of cal hypo? Is 300 already so high I should stop immediately, or is 300 low enough where I could go up another 100 to 400 and not have scale or other issues? If it matters I target a fairly low TA of around 60 as it seems to be a sweet spot for keeping my ph stable. My understanding is if my TA is low, I can have a higher CH and have the saturation index be pretty good. So, at what CH would I be in danger of developing any issues? Am I already there at 300, or do I have some more headroom, if so how much? Thanks.
  3. Hi all, my question is centered around doing various titration/dropwise tests with a Taylor kit, for example, a chlorine powder/titration test, where each drop is .5 PPM, and you're waiting for the reddish color to turn totally clear, let's say you just put in drop #9, and it didn't turn totally clear, but it will on the next drop since it did turn a very light, pale pink on the 9th drop, is it correct when you add drop #10, and it does turn totally clear to figure that the accurate measurement is somewhere in between 9 and 10, since 9 made it almost clear, but not quite, so, in this case, instead of calling it 4.5 ppm, or 5 ppm, it would be more like 4.75 PPM? Or, is it correct to not take into account that the second to last drop brought the solution almost to the brink of complete color change, and in this case, call it a full 10 drops, ie. 5 ppm, and not split the diff between drops 9 and 10? Now I realize with chlorine, a quarter PPM isn't crucial, but how about when doing total alkalinity or calcium, where you're waiting for the green to turn red, and respectively, the red to turn blue, what I find with calcium is, I get very close to the change from red to blue, but, generally the second to final drop changes the red to something in between red and blue, a purple-ish color, the next drop of course makes it true, blue, same with alkalinity, the second to last drop generally makes the green a sort of dull reddish gray, then that final drop puts it over, and it turns completely red. So, for these tests, is it as I said above, I should split the difference, ie. with calcium if drop 26 makes it purple, and drop 27 makes it completely blue, should I consider my calcium to be 265? I realize that differences like this aren't too important, but with TA, the difference between 60 and 70 is somewhat significant, so, I'd appreciate any answers you all might have, thanks! Ari
  4. Hi Richard, once again thank you for your vast experience and willingness to help out us newbies, so we may take good care of our considerable aquatic investments. Now, I think I'm on the verge of understanding at least some of this, then again, I've been on the verge before, but sometimes only of looking foolish, so, let's see which one it is this time. TA from what I've been reading is usually said to be good in the 80 to 120 range, mine was between 80 and 90, at the low side of normal. You said that if I'm seeing the ph rising consistantly, I should lower the TA to maybe 70 or so, and I can compensate by upping the CH a bit, right now, CH is at 220, maybe get it to 250? Then again, keep in mind the pool was finished only 4-5 months back, so, I expect the pool to at least add a little more CH (and other alkaline substances) to the water in time, and don't new pools tend to cause the ph to rise for a while until they're broken in so to speak? Is it that my TA is too high, or is it the new pool syndrome raising the ph, or, it is what it is? EDITED TO ADD: As I have been reading, aside from my plaster pool being newish, I also run my pump, and 3 spills a lot, maybe on average 12 hours a day, and apparently, this aeration is contributing to my ph rising a bit each day? Another reason to lower TA to 70 and see if the ph is more stable? Richard, are you saying that if I lower my TA to 70, instead of needing to add acid every 3 days or so to stay in the 7.4-7.6 range, I might only need to add acid once a week or even once every 2 weeks, is this possible just by lowering TA 10-20 ppm? Is the following correct? Your ph, in part, is the result of a battle, or stasis, between the very low ph of the acid you add periodically, and the alkaline substances you add, or are added by your pool/elements, ie plaster, rain, tap water, etc. When you add LC, though it's high ph does make the water temporarily more alkaline with a rise in ph, it is only temporary, the long term TA and ph are relatively unaffected by the periodic additions of LC, is that true for the most part? So, for example, if you want or need to add LC, you can add it, even if your ph is already 7.6, and you do see a spike in ph, to maybe 7.8 or so? Or, if you do, should you add acid anyway to bring it down to 7.5, or just wait a day or 2 for it to happen naturally? How long does a LC ph rise last, and could it last long enough to damage the pool, with a high ph? While the temp. ph and alkalinity rise you get when you add LC is short lived, when you add acid to lower ph, does that acid stay active in the water long term, unlike LC, in other words, as you add the acid over time, does it build up and stay in the water as a ph and alkalinity reducer, or, like LC, does the acid only lower ph and alkalinity temporarily? Is is fair to say you have to keep adding LC because the sun (and contaminants) consume it, but, you have to keep adding acid not because it gets consumed, but because the pool, and the elements are constantly adding alkaline substances which are what's raising your ph over time, and the acid is required to counteract this? Why would my pool need a lower than normal TA, is it because it being a new pool, there are a lot of substances it's giving to the water that are adding to TA and thus raising ph? If true, then as my pool gets some time behind it, I would see the ph start to not rise as much, which means my TA is naturally lower and not increasing, and then I could bring it up with SB to a middle range of say 100 or so? I recall the pool company saying that new pools do tend to have high ph for a while, the impression I got from them was I should just add acid as neccessary to keep the ph in the correct range and that in time, the ph of the water would not rise as much or as quickly. I also had the impression, which I'm now thinking was false, based on what you're saying, that you add acid to compensate for the ph rise the LC gives, when if I now understand correctly, the acid you add isn't really about the LC, but rather because your pool is giving off alkaline (high ph) substances that are raising TA and PH, is this true? So, is lowering my TA as you suggested, in effect, a temp. measure to compensate for my newish pool adding things to the water that are raising the TA naturally, and thus the ph rises quickly? How are TA and PH related exactly, maybe that's where I'm not quite getting this. Does more CH in the water act like TA as an acid neutralizer/buffer and ph stabilizer? Is that why you said if i lower my TA, I could add calcium to compensate, does the calcium act just like TA, as an acid/ph buffer? What's the ph of calcium? And finally, if I can keep my TA right around 80-90, my CH around 250, my FC around 5-6, my CYA around 50 and my ph right in the 7.4-7.6 range, aside from the added expense of paying for a little extra acid, is there anything dangerous for the pool if the only issue is I have to add some acid every 2-3 days to keep the ph between 7.4-7.6? I'm sorry for so many questions, I do read lots of posts, and other info on the net, but, little of it helps me as much as having my questions answered directly, I hope you can bear with me, I think i'm pretty close to getting a handle on it all, and thus I expect the questions will dissapate faster than unstabilized LC in the sun.
  5. Hi Richard, when you said I can keep my pH stable by lowering TA, how low is low? Right now, it's hovering around 80-90, and it seems to be actually getting lower over time, definitely doesn't appear to be going up, though I would guess it will rise a bit when I add some more LC, since the pH is around 13? Do the periodic additions of acid to lower pH also lower TA in a meaningful, lasting way? I do find I need to add a little acid every day or 2 to keep the pH at the 7.4-7.6 range. Would you say I should get my TA up to maybe 100 or so? Also, most pool stores and most people seem to suggest muriatic acid for pH control, but one pool store suggests sulfuric, any thoughts on that? Thanks, Ari
  6. Hi Richard, thanks very much for your informative replies, I took your advice and bought the best (read most expensive ) Taylor kit, and have so far tested FC, PH, CYA, CH and TA. I find the CYA test a little imprecise as I don't know whether to stop adding the sample when the black dot is pretty much gone with just the faintest hint visible, or completely gone to where you cannot make it out at all. If completely gone, looks like im right around 50ppm, which I guess is pretty good, if it drops I'll use tabs for a few week to get it back in the 50-70 range? It's interesting about the Ph test, prior to getting the taylor kit, my strips had seemingly been reading slightly low for PH these past few days, which I didn't fully believe as I have heard new pools tend to have higher Ph and need acid fairly often to lower it, and yet, my first liquid test today showed the ph to be slightly high, very different from what the strips were telling me, so, I added a little acid which brought it to a pretty ideal 7.4-5 or so. Here's where I'm still a little confused though. I added half a jug, ie. 1.25 gallons of 10.5% liquid chlorine a few days ago, and it brought my TC and FC levels very high, and, despite about 3 sunny days since, the FC is still reading very high. Since the Taylor kit only tests to 5ppm, I can tell you it's at least 5, looks like an even deeper pink than the max. of 5ppm, my strips are showing it might be as high as 10ppm. I did put 2 3" tabs in the in line a few days ago as well, but only set it to 2, I was wanting to keep some chlorine in the pool, since I was under the impressiuon the 1/2 jug of LC I added would dissapate in just a couple of days, but, here I am around 3 sunny days later, and the FC is still at least 5ppm, I do know that I should stop the tabs if and when the CYA level rises to maybe 70 or so. So, here are my questions: If my CYA level is hovering around 50, is it OK to add 1.25 gallons of LC maybe twice a week, even if my FC reads greater than 5 ppm for a day or 2, and I make sure it never falls below 3ppm? At what ppm should I add new chlorine? I know some literature says it can safely get as low as 1ppm, but it seems to me to be safe, 3ppm is a good minimum, what do you all think? I would ideally like to add half a jug 2 times a week give or take, if this keeps my FC between 3 and 6ppm, is there any problem with this, with my CYA levels around 50-70? Am I going to always have to add acid after I add LC? Most stores push muriatic, but one store guy said he prefers sulphuric? Where should my TA be, right now it's 90ppm, sounds pretty good? I know if my pH is slightly high, I can just add a cup or so of acid to bring it down, but what's the best thing to use to raise the pH without resorting to adding LC, since the FC might already be on the high side? The strips say my TH is around 250, low side of normal, my Taylor says my CH is about 220 ppm, should I maybe shock with 2 lbs/ (15,000 gallons) cal-hypo once every 2 weeks until the Ch gets to maybe 250 or so? Where exactly should my Ch be, and, what's the best way to get it there? Is there any reason to NOT add calcium to a 6 month old pool? I'm sorry for all the questions, my first pool, don't want to do anything wrong , and I feel like I'm getting there, I've only been caring for it myself for a few weeks, and now that I have an accurate test kit, I feel like I'll be OK very soon, but any and all info pertaining to the above questions would really help, and is much appreciated! Ari
  7. I appreciate all the experience and information here, and it's very helpful to a new pool owner like myself, I do still have a few questions that I hope you all can help me with. I just took over care of my new 14,000 gallon gunite/concrete/plaster pool, with an integrated hot tub with 3 spills, DE filter. I live in FL, the pool is screened in, and the water temp is generally around 86 degrees. I brought a sample of my water to my local Leslies pool store, they told me a few things. First, my CYA level was high, so, no more tabs, and from what I've been reading, tabs aren't a good way to go anyway since they build up your CYA levels with continued use. So, fine, no tabs. They also said my phosphates were high, they had me do 32 oz of Phosfree, running the pump continuously for 48 hours, it clearly reduced my flow rate as my spills started barely trickling, backwashed my DE filter when the 48 hours were up, flow back to normal, they say my phosphates are better, but still a little high, they said to use a capful once a week. Now, here's where I think they are leading me astray, based on what Richard and others are saying. They are essentially having me maintain my FC level by adding a 1 lb. bag of cal hypo shock powder once every 5 days or so. From what I gather, eventually, this will cause an undesired calcium buildup in my pool, so this doesn't seem to be a good long term method of chlorination. My gut feeling is to use liquid chlorine, but, my pool does get a lot of direct sunlight from the strong FL sun, and without stabilizer, I wonder how effective or long lasting it will be, I really don't want to have to add chlorine every day, but I would if that were the best way to go. To that end, let's say for a moment, I decide to stop the cal hypo shock powder the store recommends, and just keep a good supply of 12% liquid chlorine on hand, about how often do I add it, and, how much at a time? And, when needed, how do I add some stabilizer, just use pucks for a week or 2? And, if I'm maintaing the FC level with LC, do I still shock the pool periodically, and if so, with LC or powder? Should I add muratic acid every time I add chlorine, since I was told the chlorine raises ph, or weekly, or only when the ph gets critically high? How much acid do I add to lower a high ph? I did get the accucheck test strips, but find them not very accurate or reliable, so, I'm going to get a decent test kit tommorrow. Basically, for my pool, given the above conditions, should I use liquid chlorine, if so, how much and how often, do I add acid weekly, or only if the ph gets too high? If I do switch to liquid chlorine, I assume I should monitor my CYA levels, and add some if it gets low? What about shocking, not neccessary if I keep my FC levels good? I have to admit, this all seems a little complicated, and I'd very muich appreciate some clarity. (no pun intended. ) Thanks so much, Ari
  8. Just had a beautiful inground concrete pool built by Harbor Bay Pools, they're close to you in Port St. Lucie, you should check them out, nice people too.
  9. Hi all, having some doubts as to whether my new Hayward heat pump is working properly, it might be, but having no prior experience with owning a pool, I just don't know. New 15 x 30 14K gallon pool with integrated spa, HP is a Hayward Pro Titanium 116 BTU. I live in FL, pool was set up last week, but they decided the plaster/aggregate interior needed to be acid washed, so this weekend, they drained the pool, washed it (looks better), refilled. Far as I can tell, the pool and spa returns are getting very good flow. This morning, the water temp in the pool was 67, I started the pump/heater at 3 pm, and, I covered the pool with a solar cover, the outside temp today was in the low to mid 70's, admittedly not very sunny today though. I really expected that by 8pm, I'd have been into the low 70's for water temp, but, by 8pm, at which time the temp outside was around 65 or so, the water temp had only risen to 69. Only a 2 degree increase in over 5 hours, this is WITH a cover on, and, not terribly cold outside either. I know heat pumps are slow, but this slow? So, at 8:15pm, I set it to Spa mode, to hopefully get the spa from 69 to 100 degrees, my thinking being that if I could at least get my spa to temp, I'd feel like I hadn't completely wasted my $50,000 I would say from 8pm until 11pm, the outside temp was between 65 (8pm) and 58 (11pm), after 3 hours, the spa, also covered, had at least gotten close, it was about 97 after a little over 3 hours. I can understand if the air temp is close to the 45 degree critical level for a heat pump to operate, but, tonight, it wasn't that cold outside (60's mostly, certainly wasn't below 58), I would have expected the HP to be able to easily get the spa water from 69 to 100 in far less than 3 hours, and after 3 full hours, it still hadn't quite even reached 100. And, I would expect the HP to give a covered pool, on a day in the low to mid 70's, more than a 2 degree increase in 5 hours. But, I am new to all this, so, my expectations might be unrealistic, which is what brings me here. I know the guys who built my pool will say, well, heat pumps don't work that well when it's cold, or not sunny, or this that or the other, but, I want to get opinions from impartial pool owners. So, what are realistic expectations as to how quickly a 14K gallon pool with a 116 btu HP can heat up, both the pool and/or the spa, in winter weather, but, notably, FLORIDA winter weather, where its in the 70's daytime, and 50's to 60's night time? All opinions are much appreciated. Ari
  10. Hi all, we just had our inground pool/spa finished, the HP is a Hayward Titanium 116 BTU, basically my question is as follows: I'm in FL, normally, temps, even in winter would be relatively warm, but, recently, it's been pretty cold, getting down some nights into the mid to low 30's, even high 20's, I know for non floridians, that's not that cold , but, I was under the impression my HP would be able to at least heat my spa on fairly cold nights in the 30's or 40's, and it did in fact the other night, after 3 hours, get my spa from 75 to 102 on a fairly cold night, I guess the temp was in the mid to high 40's that night, but tonight, it's a little colder, and I still wanted to get in the spa tonight, so, I set it up to do that, only to find 2 hours later that the HP had apparently shut itself off, and just wouldn't do it this time, I would say the temp tonight is around 40 or slightly less, so, my question is, should my HP be able to work, at least for my spa, on a night with temps in the low 40's to high 30's, or, do HPs simply not work at these temps? In fact, what is the established min. operating temp of a typical HP? Any help is appreciated, thanks, Ari
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