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JerimiahR

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Everything posted by JerimiahR

  1. Depending on what Costco spa you bought, the best brands will probably cost 2-3 times as much money. So I want to be very honest with that point up front. But there are lots of reasons they cost more, so I won't get into all those details (and the rant/flame war that goes along with it). For a good 2-4 person size, that's capable of 110v or 220v, I really like the Tiger River Sumatran (6'6" x 6'6" x 33") made by the folks @ Watkins Manufacturing (Hot Spring). It's a very reliable spa, very energy efficient, and seats up to 4. We sell a LOT of that particular model in my market (Montana) because of it's price point, size, efficiency, reliability, insulation, etc. For something a little bigger, you could look at the Hot Spring Prodigy (6'2" x 7'3" x 33"). It's rated for up to 5, but I like it as a 3-4 person spa. This is a more feature rich spa compared to the Sumatran, and will cost a bit more. But it's another 110/220 option. Stop by your local Hot Spring dealer and see if they have any 2009 models left in stock. Looks like the Hot Spring dealer for the Mendocino area is: Hot Spring Spa of Sonoma County 1347 Cleveland Ave. Santa Rosa, CA 95401 Phone: (707) 525-1433 http://www.hottubstore.com/index.html
  2. See the above statement for an answer to your question. If you're finding that the manufacturer isn't helpful, or outright doesn't want to give you support, that goes a long ways toward earning a poor reputation by itself. If they won't help you, they may or may not be any more willing to support their dealers. A manufacturer can't simply make good products, they have to support them well. We'd all be better off with an average manufacturer with fantastic support than we would with a great manufacturer with no support. Thankfully in my case, there is no Cal Spa dealer locally for me to have to deal with. But quite frankly, I usually hear poor opinions of them when I do engage with folks who've worked with their spas.
  3. Let's keep in mind, if the "only victim" was Scotiabank, then we're all losing out. It's the same thing that happens to Credit Card Companies on a daily basis. Everytime someone fraudulently uses your credit card, good 'ole "XYZ Bank Inc" cancels the charges on your card, and pays them for you, writing it off as a business loss. However, they don't do this out of the goodness of their own hearts. Have you seen credit card interest rates? The last several years credit card interest rates have been ridiculous. Granted the idea is to pay off your credit card monthly to avoid interest charges in the first place. But let's face it, many folks can't or don't do this. Therefore, the high interest rates they get charged are where these credit card companies pay for losses. In the same way, Scotiabank is going to get that money somewhere eventually. Be it through higher fees to customers, higher interest rates on loans, lower interest rates on CDs & savings accounts, etc. Also keep in mind, much of the community charitable support comes from those with money. When these banks take large losses, they aren't able to give as much to their communities, and therefore their communities may suffer. In the end, here's my point. Bankruptcy is bad. There's no nice way to put it. Someone is losing, even if suppliers get paid. Folks lose their jobs, communities can suffer, credit ratings are destroyed, on and on. Let's just keep in mind, we're not just talking about "numbers" here. There's a real effect on outside entities.
  4. The whole GPM, HP, BHP battle is the most pointless deal ever if you ask me. The feel of your jets in the spa have more to do with jet design than anything else. The Horsepower or Break Horse Power of a jet pump don't necessarily have any direct relation to how an individual or cluster of jets in a seat actually perform. It's sort of like how car manufacturers tout Horse Power numbers. I used to drive a Dodge Dakota R/T which was rated @ 250HP. But I guarantee it was faster from 0-60 than any of the passenger cars which tout 260HP or more these days. It's all relative, and depends at what RPM they're rating the HP numbers at, gear ratios, etc etc. As Spatech noted, some manufacturers will tell you they have 4HP pumps, but they are actually telling you the BHP, which is the HP rating for the 1/10th second when the pump first turns on. Therefore, it's basically a torque rating. Something with a 4BHP rating may very well in reality be 2.5HP continuously (while it's actively running at constant speed). Plus, the HP rating is for the electric motor on the pump, not the wet end anyhow. So the HP doesn't tell you how fast the wet end spins, or how much water it moves. This is where folks try to argue over Gallons Per Minute numbers... For folks who are technically savvy, the HP ratings can shoot these marketers in the foot. The higher the true HP is, often times equates to a larger energy draw. So the bigger their pumps really are, the less "energy efficient" the spa will be over all. Lots of times the companies claiming to have massive jet pumps, also claim to have the world's most efficient spa... Feel the jets. They'll speak for themselves.
  5. For a Hot Spring Spa, I love the Pearl/Espresso.
  6. $4,000 is perfectly on for the Solana TX. That's what we have our last 2009 unit clearanced for. $3,500 would be an outstanding deal. Keep in mind however, getting prices from folks around the country means little to nothing. Cost of living, overhead, taxes, all that stuff differ so much around the country that not everyone can even afford to sell the same model for the same price. As far as TX vs Jetsetter. You really ought to have your husband sit in the spas with you. If the TX is most comfortable to you, I'd say go for it. However, I had a customer this last summer who purchased the TX and later exchanged it for the Jetsetter, simply because her husband was kind of tall and they needed the leg room. I always urge folks to sit in the spa before they buy. With an empty dry spa, it only takes seconds to do it. Some folks will tell you dry testing is pointless and says nothing, but that's not true at all. You can sit in a spa dry and determine very quickly if it's the right size, has the number of seats, leg room, etc. Wet testing is all about feeling the jets, and seeing if you float out of the lounge seat.
  7. Ozone really should just be used all the time. There are a ton of benefits of constant ozone generation. Lot easier to keep the spa clean, and frankly you'll use less sanitizer (Chlorine for instance). The UV type ozone systems keep in mind, use a 'light bulb'. Although most light bulb packages give you a number of hours it should last, we all know light bulbs very often go out for no particular reason at all. So I'd imagine turning a UV Ozone system on and off with regularity is probably not going to increase life expectancy. UV Ozone systems also begin to drop in efficiency almost immediately, as stated even by a company that uses UV Ozone generators for air purification: Quote Source CD Ozone not only lasts a lot longer, as Peteyboy mentioned, but they tend to output a higher concentration of Ozone to begin with. Which ultimately means it's more effective. Here's an interesting site if you want to see some science behind comparing UV & CD Ozone systems: Corona Discharge vs. UV Ozone Generation Interesting points they make:
  8. Check with a local Hot Spring dealer and ask about the new Hot Spot Sprint and Dash models. They're basically the same size at 78" diameter & 35" tall (excluding cover). Would be over all much higher quality product, backed by a much better company. The difficult part with Costco, is they are very, very price oriented. It's all about price points. Now for Sony Blu-Ray players and things of that nature, it means I can buy a good player for $109 (instead of $180). In that case, it's the same Sony Blu-Ray you can buy elsewhere. However, when it comes to stuff like hot tubs, it means the manufacturer has to find ways to make their lower end hot tub even cheaper. That usually means cut corners, less jets, lesser warranty, lower overhead, etc etc. Costco dictates what price point the spa can be sold for, and the manufacturer simply has to make it work for themselves. Anyone who decides to buy from Costco has to weigh in a lot of factors: No Local Support Lesser Quality/Reliability Higher Energy Use Less or Less expensive Insulation (not all "Full-foam" is the same) History of Bankruptcy for 'Costco' spa manufacturers Self-Installation & Setup of Spa Buying a Spa you cannot see, let alone sit in If a person is driven specifically by the dollar sign, it's a cheap way to get a hot tub. But if you'd prefer energy efficiency, reliability, technical support, local service, long term life, on and on... you really need to buy from a local dealer that sells products made by a reputable manufacturer.
  9. Depending on the consistency of the "dead skin" flakes, it could be organic material, some type of bio-film. This can develop in a spa which hasn't been sanitized properly over time, or if a spa has been empty with any residual moisture in the plumbing even. We like to run some Spa System Flush or similar product through the hot tub before draining it to help remove any of that build-up as a very small part of our refurbishment process on pre-owned spas. BigDfromTN's Caldera likely has a circulation pump in it, supplying a steady flow of water, which in turn helps create a steady flow of ozone bubbles. Many other spas use a 2 speed jet pump for filter cycles and heat cycles. So the flow of bubbles won't be the same consistency. However, as BigDfromTN mentioned, the injector point for the ozone may need a routine treatment with Vinegar to make sure there's no hard water (calcium) build up blocking the injection point.
  10. Unless our customers have a preference for something else, we typically recommend the use of Ozone, AG+, and Dichlor (Spa Chlorine). That is what works best for us and our customers. Personally, I don't like the tablet method in hot tubs. Chlorine Tablets truly should not be used in residential spas. However, many manufacturers will allow you to use Bromine Tablets (see your manual). There's not always an exact science to tablets. They're intended to give you a slow dissolve rate, to maintain a minimal residual of Bromine in the water. The down side of this, is that many folks use tablets as a "set it and forget it" utility. However, without routine adjustments or the addition of Brominating Concentrate (granular, quick dissolve bromine) your bromine levels can easily drop below desire levels or to zero after or during soaking periods. You end up using granular bromine anyhow to instantly supplement your tablets. Also of note, as Peteyboy suggested, Bromine tablets are highly acidic, and commonly cause low pH and low Alkalinity problems. So for me, I prefer the granular quick dissolve formulas. Dichlor, or Bromine granules are my preference.
  11. I have no personal knowledge of the Hydropool situation. But there is a stark difference between the Court Motion document in question, and the statement on Hydropool's website. I think it'd be interesting to hear what is/has really happened, just to clear the air. If all that SpaParty has stated is completely true, it would indicate perhaps that there's some serious libel/slander type stuff in that Motion document. However, if the details in that Motion document are correct, it would indicate that perhaps Hydropool wasn't wearing the white hat with their statements. All that will eventually be sorted out in court in some fashion or another I'm sure. I think we can all agree however, that it is sort of sniper-like of a person to register on the forums, post a link to bad business, and then never come back. However, as UK Arctic Dealer stated, it's decently sizable news when you hear this kind of thing about any player in the industry. So it's bound to get attention, be that attention desired or not.
  12. Welcome to the Hot Tub Family. Come back to the forums after you've gotten to soak in your spa. I'm sure folks would love to hear how much you're enjoying it.
  13. Found the PDF file in my Adobe Acrobat Cache. Here's the direct link: http://www.richter.ca/downloads/pdf/insolv...015,%202010.pdf I'm guessing they perhaps didn't intend for the documents to go public. That could be why they removed them from the listing on their site. However, they have not password protected the direct link. So it's still available for download by clicking above.
  14. Opinions are good! Sundance does make a pretty good hot tub too, so it's not like you can go completely wrong there. I imagine the OP (Original Poster) can talk to their local Hot Spring dealer on the pricing end of things and see if they can or are willing to be more competitive. Not like it hurts to ask.
  15. Yeah some of this depends on how your local dealer 'packages' things. If they only order their 680 series spas WITH the circ pump, their sales staff may very well say it's standard. In the same way, 4 wheel drive is standard on all trucks/SUVs here in Montana. If you go ask for a 2WD version they usually laugh at you and ask if you're actually serious. With the snowy winter conditions 4WD is very common here.
  16. Even the Nature 2 system with Silver in it does not act as an independent sanitizing agent. The EPA requires it be accompanied by other agents (Such as MPS) to even be marketed as a sanitizer. However, the Nature 2 AG+ cartridges really do work. We've seen a lot of benefit from them over the years. We're usually fairly leery when folks tell us about "one bottle does all" systems. Many times they're get rich quick schemes. IF you're looking for a very simple, comfortable system I'd recommend something like Silk Balance as an option. It's not a one single bottle cure all, but it gets you a lot closer (and works very well for our customers). Part of what bothers me about the article you linked to, is that they simply prescribe a single 16.9 ounce bottle for all hot tubs, seemingly regardless of size. Even if this stuff worked, there would more than likely be some content level that works effectively (e.g. parts per million). I once had a customer come into my store with a small bottle of clear liquid, with paper taped to it and instructions on that piece of paper. She said a dealer sold her the stuff, and claimed that you just put in so many drops (literally, drops) and it would take care of it all. Obviously she came into my store because it wasn't working. No idea what was actually in the bottle. Mayo Clinic says Colloidal Silver isn't safe: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/colloidal-silver/AN01682 What's important to note, is that the Silver Ions in the Nature 2 system are not the same as what is supposedly put into the Colloidal Silver solutions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver It's not just silver particles/pieces, but actual silver ions that are used for killing bacteria and such.
  17. As a Hot Spring dealer, I've got two weirs. the Hot Spring vertical weir gate, and the Tiger River ring type weir. I've never seen that either of them is necessarily any better than the other. The whole point of the weir is to let water and stuff in while the jets run, and keep the 'stuff' in once the jets are off. So long as the weir works, it really doesn't matter.
  18. So if I read that properly, Hydropool Spas owes $10.3million plus legal fees (page 25 of PDF, p23 of document, also labeled p12). They were forced to completely shut down their factory in December of 2009 because they have no cash, and all their supplier/vendors want money up front for any orders (COD). The last company director resigned on December 4th, 2009. It appears the motion is speaking of buying them out for $3.2 to $4 million, even though the "Bank" is owed $10million by the company, and that doing so could save the jobs of "up to 172 people". Hard economy for a smaller manufacturer to survive in. This is the kind of thing going on all over the country this last year or two.
  19. If that's the case, I'd say it's about time. However, this is what the Sundance website says about the Hartford model: (Emphasis Mine) Source: http://www.sundancespas.com/680Series/Large-Hot-Tubs.html Also, if you do a "Compare" between the 680 Hartford with the 880 Optima on the Sundance website, the 24-hr circ pump is listed as "optional". Water Treatment: Source: http://www.sundancespas.com/Hot-Tubs-Comparison.html The 880 and 780 series appear to have circulation pumps, however they are optional on the 680 series. The other thing to consider, is this is a larger pump than what Hot Spring uses. Folks can argue that point back and forth as far as gallons per minute and filtration (whether you need as much or not) and compare that with overall energy efficiency.
  20. By "inferior" do you mean "less featured"? Because aside from a couple of features, the Tiger River Spas are identical in manufacturing, pumps, heaters, circulation pumps, insulation, bottom floor drains, etc to the Hot Spring Spas.
  21. To be honest, I prefer the Tiger River line over the Sundance line. The Tiger River Spas are basically the same as a Hot Spring, just without the pre-installed Ozone and no-bypass filter system. All else is essentially the same. So you're looking at a very energy efficient spa, with a strong reliability factor over a long term life. Just about 30-40 minutes ago I spoke with a customer of ours who was telling me all about his 1980's Hot Spring that he still uses. The Hot Spot Tempo is a brand new model for 2010. To be honest I don't even have my first Tempo in stock yet. From a mechanical stand point, the Hot Spot models are more comparable to other brands (outside of Hot Spring). The Hot Spring/Tiger River spas are designed and operated in a very different manner. For example, they use a different style of Titanium Heater, and have a very small circulation pump that runs 24/7. This helps reduce wear n tear on jet pumps considerably (no stop/go driving) and also reduces your energy bill. The little circulation pump used these days is labeled as using like 39W. So having it run 24/7 is cheaper than leaving your porch light on. It'll move/filter about 5,000 gallons of water a day without ever needing to activate your jet pump(s). Now the Sundance brand does offer a "circulation pump" option as an add on for some models, but it's not quite the same system. It's a programmable pump, and is larger. The nice thing about the Tiger River Caspian option is that it requires absolutely zero programming. If the power is on, it's filtering 24/7 and maintains your set temp (even after power loss/return).
  22. I'd go for the Arctic over that Raindance from Sears. Never talked to anyone who's purchased a spa from Sears, but I can only imagine it's about the same as buying from Costco (which frankly doesn't have a good track record in my market). With the Arctic spa, you'll be getting a spa from one of the major players in the industry, and have a local dealer to support you in the future (plus the better warranty as previously stated). Folks never realize how important dealer support is until they have a problem. I've only heard from one local Arctic user who had their salt system, and this particular person was pretty displeased. I don't service Arctic so I'm not hands on familiar with their Onzen system. Don't rule out Ozone all together. Ozone in general is a great option. For $100 though, you're not getting a very good ozone generator. You might ask the dealer about a Corona Discharge (CD) Ozone system. These will cost you as much as 3-4 times as much money, but have a much higher output of ozone (read more effective) and last a lot longer (read reliable and cheaper long term).
  23. I'm all about making it easy for my customers. Blankets give you one extra step to get in, and out of the spa. They certainly can help 'over all' with energy use (keeping more heat in is good). However, you also have to keep in mind that it takes more effort. For some folks, that means using the spa less. On the other hand, if you are using it often, the blankets also mean more water loss. We're not talking huge amounts, but every time you pull that blanket off it's wet, and that water gets all over. If you're a daily spa user, it'll mean topping off your water more often. There are pro's and cons to everything. For longer periods between uses, blankets can help reduce evaporation loss and keep some extra warmth in. If your ultimate goal is energy savings, get a heavier foam type blanket. They can be quite a bit more expensive though.
  24. PROOF that potato chip makers can't make a decent soda! * D1 making surf boards, or whatever, was in a recent trade mag * LOL! The funny part is, my wife owns some stock in Coca-Cola, yet we both prefer Pepsi. Go figure... we're supporting our competitor. You should try the new Chili Cheese flavored Fritos though. Those are pretty good.
  25. Just go take a science class (specifically something relating to thermal physics) and you'll have to change your tune. There are literal, scientifically provable differences between an empty space (which is NOT vacuum sealed) and a fully foamed or fully insulated spa. Something must exist between the spa shell/water and the outside world to retard the loss of heat. An empty cavity which is full of "air" (rather than vacuum sealed and without mass) will transfer heat just as quickly as... air. Air conducts heat fairly well. This is why most homes have some source of forced air heating system, and on the flip side, why fans can cool a room. It's why most counties or states have some requirements as to R-Values or insulation properties for residential construction. Not many folks leave exterior wall cavities full of "air" in hopes of keeping the house warm/cool.
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