JerimiahR

Two reasons you shouldn't fill with "hot" water (not talking about "warm"): 1) Extreme temperature changes in the shell of the hot tub could cause structural/cracking problems if a spa is empty and very cold and suddenly filled with very hot water. 2) The primary reason is that most water heaters in a house are set to a minimum of 120F. Water of this temperature or above isn't really safe to sit in, and therefore will shut down the hot tub via the hot tub's high limit temperature sensor. Because of this tripping off, the spa will not function. This contributes to customer's calling for service because they refilled the spa and it no longer works (simply because they tripped the high temp shut off).

Tadaia, Contact your local dealer and ask them about this. The new 2009/2010 Vanguard models with the top side controls will display ACTUAL temperature, and your set temperature. In very cold climates (I'm in Montana) I have seen your exact issue on a couple instances. In both cases, the temperature of the hot tub was too hot while it was sub freezing temperatures over night. Watkins Manufacturing (makers of Hot Spring Spas) had us install an insulation kit on the equipment compartment door. This was not intended to simply add insulation, but was intended to block direct airflow into the compartment. What could be the cause is very cold air blowing in under the equipment door (where power conduit goes in) and causes temporary low temperature readings with the Thermostat. This would cause the hot tub to believe it needed to heat. If you're uncomfortable with your dealer, please contact Watkins Manufacturing's tech support directly: 1-800-999-4688

To the side of the main circuit board (IQ2020) take a look at the smaller circuit board. This is the Heater Relay Board for the hot tub. Check it over visually and see if there are any signs of an electrical short of any kind. It could be a malfunction with that relay not activating the heating element. Unless you're experienced with electrical stuff, I wouldn't recommend going any further. But it is possible to test and see if power is passing through the board to the heater. Especially if your hot tub is under warranty, I'd suggest contacting your local dealer for warranty related service. Still wouldn't hurt to contact them anyhow. You have a good local dealer. So I'm sure you'll get good support from them.

Filtration is one of many key points to look at when deciding on which spa to buy. But it's not the only factor. Be careful that anyone (salesman or folks on this forum) try to convince you on what to buy based on one single point. The 100% no-bypass filtration on the Hot Spring brand works very well, and quite frankly gives a lot of my customers the peace of mind knowing that 100% of the jet water is being passed through filters before it goes through their equipment, plumbing, and jets (i.e. back against your body). Although this really should not affect jet performance when those filters are clean, keep in mind jet pressure isn't the entire picture. It sure feels impressive at first. But ask yourself how long you want to get a massage. Very high jet pressure feels great for a couple minutes, and then you just have to shut the jets off. A good massage lasts more than a couple minutes. To successfully relax your muscles, you need a careful balance of pressure and time. There are a lot of other technical differences between the Hot Spring and Sundance brands that you should also consider.

Unfortunately, the video that started this thread is about licensed, certified electricians who failed to do things properly. I think this video does more to expose "professionals" who are cheating and being lazy than it does about DIY installs. Unfortunately, I too have seen and heard of some pretty scary/shady electrical installs. That's why I've got a couple electricians I recommend to our customers exclusively. They do the job well, and always do it right. I can rely on them, and don't have to re-explain things to them because they wire spas for us all the time. My delivery team likes them, and my customers like them. So I keep sending them business. What scares me is when a customer says, "My buddy can wire it... he's an electrician."

Awesome!!! I love the excitement, and that it's a surprise to the kids! Super cool. Heat up time for a Hot Spring Vista in our area is about 12 hours. But our ground water temp is in the 40's, and it's generally cold outside to boot. HAPPY SOAKING!!

Markee is right on, as this is the same thing I've experienced as well. Salt Chlorine systems have been used in swimming pools successfully for years. Hot tubs however, have different obstacles chemistry wise that have made integration of such a system very difficult. However, as a dealer I'm having huge success with the new ACE Salt Sanitizing System that Hot Spring released this year. Of course, the technology in it has changed compared to "other salt systems". There's a new diamond technology used in the ACE system that seems to be a large part of the difference between working and not working. We're loving it so far. I have a 500 gallon Hot Spring Grandee in our showroom that's been filled for over 2 months now. After test soakers and lots of hands feeling the water, I've yet to add Chlorine to it. I've tested the pH twice (once a month) as recommended, and so far it's still crystal clear, soft and comfortable.

Sounds good to me. A 2003 Hot Spring Sovereign should serve you quite well for quite a while longer. As is usual for a daily experience, I had a customer come in today and tell me about her 22 year old Hot Spring Spa that she still uses regularly. Heaters need replaced occassionally, but as long as you don't freeze the hot tub you should get a good long life out of it. And the new Titantium heaters Hot Spring uses are proving to have great reliability for us here in Montana. So you should be set to go for quite some time.

The Tiger River spa line has NOT been discontinued by Watkins Manufacturing. They will continue to produce them so long as people continue to purchase them. As mentioned above, some dealers may have chosen not to display the Tiger River models due to showroom space constraints, and the fact that the LimeLight spas encompass what many folks are asking for these days (colored lights, water falls, dual jet pumps, steel frame, etc). As a Hot Spring dealer, we have all 5 model lines (Hot Spring, LimeLight, Tiger River, Hot Spot, and Solana) available for our customers. However, it's at times difficult to display every single model. EDIT: Grammatical / Spelling mistakes.

Watkins Manufacturing doesn't make Dimension One just to make that clear up Roger's list up above. Feature level wise here's how I'd list them. Hot Spring Caldera Tiger River = Limelight Hot Spot (mid to large size) Solana (small models) The Tiger River spas are built just like the Hot Spring models always were (full-insulated with closed cell foam, pressure treated wood structure, etc) and use the same mechanics but don't have the no-bypass filter system. The Limelight spas use a different structure, but mechanically are identical to the Tiger River spas. The Limelight product is the newer line and so it has some newer updates. I don't sell the Caldera spas, but feature wise I think they're a more feature rich spa than the Tiger River & Limelight models.

The Jetsetter is my personal favorite model. I just think it's a fantastic spa. I like to call it a "Couples Spa" as I feel it's most comfortable with two people, although it has three seats. Most spas are most comfortable with one less person than they have seats for (it's all about leg room). The Aria has some pretty great upgrades though. The lounge has calf and foot jets, and there are foot jets for folks in the other seats. And the corner seat on the Aria is about as strong as they get in my opinion. It's just a fantastic hot tub over all jet wise. The prices you've been quoted look like fantastic deals in my opinion. Granted we pay more to ship them up here in Montana, but we sell them for about the same prices you're being quoted WITHOUT the Ace Salt System. And having that ACE Salt System is a very, very nice feature. Makes water care really simple, and the water simply feels fantastic. I've installed the ACE System for several customers and everyone is really enjoying it. If you liked your old Hot Spring, you won't be sorry with the new ones. Honestly, all salesmanship aside, people I've met that owned a Hot Spring didn't like their next spa as much when they bought another brand. Working with Hot Spring as much as I have, I'm a Hot Spring fanatic for sure. So much simpler spas, quiet all the time, no programming, etc...

Are you talking salt water systems in general? Or about a particular salt sanitizing system? The latest salt system on the market is Hot Spring's ACE Salt Sanitizing System, which is an entirely inline system designed specifically for use on new Hot Spring spas. I can tell you from a professional and personal standpoint that it's everything but complicated. It's an extremely simple to use system. We've sold and installed several since they were released a couple months ago, and folks are really enjoying them. As for "salt systems" in general, there are a lot of generic systems on the market, of which I've heard of bad experiences but haven't used myself. That's specifically with reference to hot tubs. There are a lot of salt chlorine generators for in ground pools as well.

LOL I agree!

As a Hot Spring dealer, I'd suggest looking at Hot Spring if you have not already. However, between BeachComber and Sundance, I'd personally lean the Sundance direction. They make a quality product. As far as UV and Ozone are concerned, both will help. However, Ozone is an extremely popular (let alone mainstream) option! Ozone related systems are used in air purifiers for houses, by water companies (think Culligan Water), hot tub manufacturers, pool companies, and I'm sure lots of other industries. Used appropriately, it's both safe and very effective. UV itself, used to be used to create ozone in hot tubs actually. Most major manufacturers have moved away from using UV to create ozone because the UV bulbs had low efficiency when compared to newer Corona Discharge systems, and the bulbs themselves required replacement. However, UV sanitation is becoming popular for things like toothbrushes, and other hygiene items like that. However, for UV to be effective two things must occur. One, the UV output must be fairly high, and the object being sanitized has to be in direct contact with the UV output for a length of time. With ozone, the gas is injected into the water, rather than the water simply passing by the UV. The great thing with Ozone is how it works. You're using natural oxidation to not only kill bacteria (like UV would) but also to break up unwanted compounds in the water. And in the end, it's simply oxygen molecules which can either gas off or bond with other things in the water and sort of "disappear". Although Ozone certainly isn't "new", it has definitely not outlived it's use. It's sort of like saying that Saunas are old technology simply because they've been used for centuries. They're still the healthiest thing you can do! For more info on UV Water Sanitizing, here's a company that has a decent page of information. Including advantages and disadvantages. Of note, they specifically mention that water must be pre-filtered for UV Sanitation to be effective, otherwise compounds or particles in the water can "shadow" bacteria/virus and keep the UV radiation from destroying them. Also, UV has no direct effect on Chlorine and "other chemical contaminants". One of the things folks like about Ozone use in hot tubs is that it breaks down Chlorine (mainly it's destruction of combined Chlorine, which is where the stinky, irritating nature of "Chlorine" comes from). http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filter...olet-filter.php

I haven't heard them called "Phase 3", however all the Hot Spring models received a software update (in the circuit board/hardware) which allowed them to interface with the ACE Salt System. Technically this happened in August 2009. So any 2009 model manufactured August or later will likely work. Your dealer should have exact details on which serial numbers are compatible. That being said, all 2010 models are also compatible. The LED lighting behind the moto-massage was technically part of the Phase 2 during 2009. As far as the ACE Salt System goes, it has quickly become very popular. Quite frankly, I think it's going to be the best thing since the first use of Ozone in hot tubs.

That is a great deal. Especially considering it includes your local sales tax. Keep in mind when chatting with folks online, retail pricing varies in different parts of the country due to numerous factors. So what one person buys a product for in one state, isn't always the same as elsewhere. $9500 for a 2010 Vanguard with lifter, steps, start-up chems, delivered, installed, and taxes included is a great deal. Ask about the ACE Salt Water Sanitizing System as an optional upgrade. It's well worth the extra upfront expense, and will make water care a lot easier (not to mention even more comfortable!).

Well said. Both manufacturers use their own jets. Hot Spring in particular, designs their own jets (rather than buying them from wholesale manufacturers). The feel of the jets will definitely be different. Ultimately, that's one of the things you want to nail down during your test soak. For example, my wife is all about the Moto-Massage DX jet that Hot Spring has in the lounge seat of that Aria model. For her, no hot tub is good enough unless it has that particular jet. It's what works for her. Sundance doesn't have a jet that does the same thing the Moto-Massage does. So they aren't the same. Ultimately you need to decide what works for you the best, all things included. From a feature and spec type standpoint, the Hot Spring Spas (like the Aria) really should be compared to the Sundance 880 Series. Both are the flagship products of their respective manufacturers. Also, specifically when comparing the 780 series with the Hot Spring, keep in mind the 780's don't come standard with a circulation pump (and when you add one, it's not exactly the same as the Hot Spring circ pump). It's not always as easy to compare directly as one might think. However, this will be a hot tub you keep for a long time (10 - 15 years maybe?). So pick one that you're comfortable with, both physically and psychologically. And pick a dealer you can trust as well. They'll be the ones helping you keep that hot tub running in tip top shape for the next several years.

Definitely not a Tiger River Caspian based on your description. That serial number is not properly formatted to be a Tiger River spa. And Weslo definitely did not make Tiger River. Tiger River is made by Watkins Manufacturing (makers of Hot Spring Spas). This is what a Tiger River Caspian looks like by the way: Tiger River Caspian Personally, I'm not familiar with "Weslo". However, epinions.com has a few reviews which seem to indicate these can be bought through Wal-Mart (which we all know is about cheap, not necessarily quality). Although I'd be wondering if this could be a trademark infringement. But that's a whole different topic. Their serial number appears simple though: Serial # Q03150202 Possibly manufactured March 15th 2002 (031502)? That's just guessing based on the number, as I don't know how that company formats their numbers. Kim, If you want a higher end hot tub, I'd suggest going to check out your local dealers. Chances are there's a Hot Spring or Sundance dealer in your area. Those are both reliable and higher end brands worth looking at. And each brand has different model lines within it so you'll have varying price ranges depending on what you're able/willing to spend.

The warranty is 5 years parts and labor, not 5 and 2. kenc, Great deal. You'll enjoy the hot tub. And the Cover Cradle lifter does indeed sell for $400. They are designed specifically for the Hot Spring brand, and are extremely popular in my market. Happy Soaking!! Congrats on your new hot tub by the way! hottubdan, Good catch on the warranty. I didn't even notice that. Yes indeed, the Hot Spring is a 5 year warranty parts/labor on the equipment, plumbing, glue joints, jets, pumps, heater, controls, and cabinet. The interior shell is actually warranted for 7 years.

Holy crap. Is that a NEW 2009 Vista that's never been owned? For $8,400 I'd say that's definitely outside the norm. Very good deal. If you liked the Envoy, you'll like the Vista. The lounge is a little longer (couple inches) and it's bigger over all. The corner seat is angled more like a 45 degree angle instead of 90. Otherwise that's a great hot tub. Enjoy!!!

The Hot Spring Aria could very well sell for $12,000 depending on how it's packaged. Is there music, or other options in that?

*on the soap box* Now THAT, is shady if you ask me. Although dealers can essentially set their own prices based on overhead costs, local markets, etc, I think going from $21,000 to $12,000 seems a bit excessive. Some people however, choose to work like that in order to make you think you're getting a massive deal. In some cases some folks choose to go that route to make up for their lack of salesmanship. But no, you won't find MSRP info on hot tub manufacturer's sites, and yes prices do vary some across the country. Some of that price difference is entirely dependent on cost of living and other such issues that the dealer has to account for in their overhead. This is why you need to shop dealers first, then pick out a hot tub. Find a dealer that you feel you can trust. Once you find a couple dealers you feel comfortable with, then you can much more confidently pick out a hot tub. As for Costco: If you want a sub-par hot tub, with some substantial long term risk (lots of manufacturers in this segment go bankrupt every 3 years or so) it's a very cheap way to buy a new spa. There is the advantage that Costco takes returns on anything, no questions asked. But if you want a GOOD hot tub, find a local dealer you can trust, and talk to them. *off the soap box* Good luck in your hunt for a hot tub. In the end, they are worth it!!

One jet pump versus two pumps, without any further data, means absolutely nothing. Manufacturers usually size the jet pump according to the number of jets, and how much water flow each jet needs to provide a certain jet pressure/massage. So, either the single jet pump spa has fewer jets, or has a larger jet pump. The Coleman, may have more jets, or simply two smaller jet pumps. There are too many factors such as plumbing design, jet design, etc to restrict a choice down to number of jet pumps. In your case, I'd say you should think more about New versus Used, as that's a bigger deal than one pump versus two in my opinion.

I'm looking for HS Vista with the ACE Salt Water System here in NJ. I'm not familiar with the Sovereign but I'm guessing its one of the bigger tubs. I'm betting thats a good price since that ACE system is brand new for 2010 from what I'm told. I will be going to Montalbano's Pool in Staten Island, NY. I will check out there price on the Sovereign too. The Sovereign is actually not that big of a tub. Its 6'8" x 7'9" x 33" and has a capacity of 365 gallons. It has 24 total jets. The reason I like it is the lounger. I am also going to look at the ARIA. The ACE system is new for 2010 and according to the dealer is incredible when it comes to water purification without tons of chlorine. That ACE System is working beautifully for us so far. We've got several in the field already, and customers (as well as staff) are loving it. It's really what folks have been asking us for for several years now. Makes a big difference in how the water feels and smells. So far as the Sovereign goes, it sounds like a good offering to me price wise. So far as the Sovereign model itself, it's probably the most popular model that we've sold in our market. Lots and lots of Sovereign owners here in Montana. I like it for the lounge, and the fact that it can really seat up to 5 adults. The Aria is a very powerful spa, and has a great lounge with the calf jets. However, it's more like a 3-4 person sized spa.

QUOTE (Jason B @ Mar 15 2010, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm in Harrisburg, PA and went to see Strong Pools and Spas at the PA home builders show last week. I wanted to check these out in person as I've been hearing many positive feedback reviews on this forum and the Costco website. Everyone was really cool, and they have some sweet setups. They had about 10 tubs on display and some with water in them. The pop-up speakers were really cool and the sound was pretty impressive for how small the speakers were. I'm looking for a 4-5 person spa, which currently isn't available in the acrylic material that I like. I spoke with the Sale Manager and he told me they will have one in the near future. I really wanted a tub NOW, as I've been searching for almost a year. They were so nice and their customer service on this board is speaks for iteself. This is what sold me, so I'm going to wait until they come out with the one I want. It won't be easy, but when I buy something, I want to be sure there is a company that will stand behind it. Also, a few months ago, I called Strong as I had a few technical questions and I told the lady on the phone that their tubs were being talked about on this forum. I had her write it down, and she said she would spead the word. About a week later there was a tech in here answering questions. Very cool. Just food for thought. You've been talking about Strong Spas on this forum for quite a while now, yet still keep saying you haven't/aren't going to buy one yet. Perhaps it's time you just go buy your hot tub. Or go work for Strong Spas perhaps (or do you already? hehe). 8^)