castletonia

I am 1,000,000% in favor of a circulation pump. I am also of the opinion that if you don't have a circulation pump, there is no point of an ozone. Ozone only last for about 30 seconds in the water once it is made. If you don't have a circulation pump, then the ozone is only running for a couple hours a day (during filtration), probably 4-6 hours a day. Why pay extra for something that is doing nothing for 75% of the time? And unrelated to ozone, I feel that 24/7 filtration yields cleaner water than water that can sit idol for a majority of the time. And the circulation pump uses less electricity than a full sized jet pump. Plus, then the jet pumps only run when you want them to, resulting in longer life of the jet pumps, especially pump #1. And if yo don't have a circulation pump, I'm pretty sure with every Balboa system, jet pump #1 will briefly cycle on every 30 minutes (only for a few seconds) to cycle water through the heater so that the temperature reading is current. This is my opinion, but I'll go as far to say, I wouldn't own a hot tub without a circulation pump and I even eliminated any hot tub from consideration of being sold in my store if it didn't have a circulation pump.

If you go Bullfrog, definitely get with the circulation pump, I'm pretty sure it's no longer standard, and an option on all models. Even though you think you will never move jet packs around, try doing it while you wet test and observe if the jet pressure changes when you move around the jet packs. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the way Bullfrog is designed, the plumbing feeds the jet packs in a sequence, so the jet pack closest to the pump has more available power than the jet pack furthest away from the pump. Each jet pack is going to have different water volume demands, so in theory, you may get too little jet pressure out of the last jet pack or too much if you choose jet packs that require more/less water. If everything goes well in the wet test, then I would say you have done your due diligence, are buying a reputable brand from what sounds like a good dealer. If you are not fully satisfied, and based strictly on the price of the Bullfrog, I would also seek out a Sundance Optima if the Chelsee is lacking in any way for you. Not that I really care what the frame is made out of since it is one of my lowest priorities when evaluating hot tubs, the new 2024 Optima will have a steel frame vs the Chelsee still using pressure treated wood.

Run away from Cal Spa. Probably the worst company I ever dealt with in 20+ years. Cal Spas makes a mediocre product, but does not honor their warranty. This results in the dealer either covering the cost themselves, or passing it along to the customer. There is a reason there are few, if any long-term Cal Spa dealers. Bullfrog in my opinion makes a quality product, and yes, on the pricey side. I cannot put my finger on it, but there is something about the company that rubs me the wrong way. I am more of a traditionally engineered product kind of guy. Give me a Sundance, Hot Spring, Caldera, Jacuzzi all day long.

Full disclosure, I am a dealer. I sell Sundance Spas, but in the last 10 years prior to opening my own store I sold Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis and then a bunch of lesser known brands prior (been in the industry 23 years now). There is no online "consumer reports" type place for hot tubs. Anything you find is going to be a paid for review site. In my opinion, the following are brands I consider quality and this is in alphabetical order to be fair: Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, Dimension One, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis, and Sundance. There are plenty other brands that are of decent/pretty good quality, and many others that are of lower quality. I would start your search by visiting the dealer locator on each of the above brands and see if you have local representation. If you don't have a local dealer, then the brand is not an option. I would personally avoid online, big box stores, Costco, etc if you want quality and support after the sale. There is a reason a dealer will be more expensive, and it is because they likely offer a better quality product and are there for you after the sale. Pricing is a crapshoot. Some dealers negotiate, some don't. Some inflate their prices to offer big discounts, others don't. And each dealer has different fixed costs which will influence what they sell the hot tub for. Plus the local market will also influence that price. As an example, I am in Wisconsin. My market is way different than someone who is in say Boston or San Francisco, so our prices will likely be different. Same goes for dealer markup. The internet and box stores will absolutely have lower profit margins because they are nothing more than order takers. And when you don't have to worry about any potential expenses after the sale, you can make lower margins and still put food on your table. Any research you do, disregard pricing you find that was pre-Covid, everything has gone up 10%-20%. I have knowledge of current pricing on Sundance, Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis, and Jacuzzi. If you encounter those brands, I can at least let you know if the price you are being quoted is in the ballpark. Low end 6-person hot tub, I would say $10k - $13k. Mid-tier probably $14k - $17k and high end $20k. I don't count online, big box stuff in the above estimates. You also need to determine how many people you really want the hot tub to fit. A 7' hot tub can claim it fits 7 people and so can a 8' hot tub. The larger one will do so comfortably and the smaller one not so much. A 7' sized hot tub will probably save you $1k - $2k over the larger 8' model.

Disconnect the salt system from the control box so that the logo light doesn't blink at you and the control panel doesn't have the icon anymore and then put the original plug back in place of a salt cartridge. Really shouldn't be an issue, at least any more or less than having salt water in the hot tub. Just keep the salt level within the desired range so as to not be any more corrosive than it already may be.

If you remove the access door, find the jet pump. On the back of it you will see the shroud (looks like a dryer vent). It is held onto the back of the motor with a zip tie. you can probably wiggle it off without even cutting the zip tie. Then just move it away from the back of the motor.

I guess I’m a little confused here. If the jet pump is only used when you are in the hot tub, say 20-30 minutes, temp should only increase maybe 1-2 degrees max. Then once the pump is off, no more temp increase. I guess if you are really feeling motivated, take off the front door and remove the pump vent shroud from the back of the motor. Then all the warm air from the motor will just exhaust into the air inside the equipment area and not be recycled back into the hot tub.

Have you sat in either hot tub? While I have no experience specifically with the Jacuzzi, I was a Hot Spring dealer for 5+ years. The Flair has a deep lounge so if either of you are shorter than probably 5'7", I question how well you would fit. Salt water will feel softer on your skin. Whether the salt system is any easier to maintain is debatable. Your source water will play a huge role in how easy or complicated the salt system will be. Jetsetter LX is a nice 2-3 person hot tub. Personal opinion, I would probably go bigger, but that is just me. I feel claustrophobic in small hot tubs when soaking with someone else, my wife included. End of the day, both are good brands. Hot Spring is the largest selling brand in the world. Jacuzzi is #2 I believe. If those are your two final choices, buy the hot tub that suits your needs better. Factor in the dealer as they are the ones taking care of you after the sale.

What do you mean jets were on for their programmed time? Highlife Hot Spring don't have preset filter cycles. Circulation pump runs 24/7 unless summer timer is activated, in which the circulation pump turns off for 8 hours a day. The jet pump only runs when you want the jets on. If you turn the pump on and don't turn it off, it will run for 2 hours before shutting off. Clean cycle will turn the pump off after 10 minutes. Hot Spring vents the exhaust from the pump back into the insulation which essentially recycles the heat. I was a Hot Spring dealer from 2017-2022. I had a customer constantly complain about increased water temp so I did a test on my showroom Grandee. With the cover closed and the jet pumps running for the full 2 hour cycle, the water temp went from 100 to 109 degrees. This was in a showroom with an air temp of approximately 65 degrees. There were windows behind the hot tub on the south and the east for reference.

Not really an apples to apples comparison. Need to look at the Marquis Spirit to be fair. Should be a sizable price difference. Unless Marquis has changed, that V65L can be specked out pretty basic (less insulation, no ozone, no inline frog, no LED lights, 110v or 220v with the 220v having a larger pump). The Marquis has a 3yr warranty vs 5 on Hot Spring. Marquis also does not use a 24 hour circulation pump, which while not a deal breaker, I prefer for energy efficiency, longevity of the jet pump and I just like 24 hour filtration. Assuming the dealers are of equal quality, I would personally go Hot Spring. FYI, I have sold both brands within the last 5 years. I personally consider Hot Spring a higher quality product and would consider Marquis to be a small tier down.

Sundance uses Core Cover. Cannot buy direct, only through retailers I believe. Shipping is expensive for hot tub covers. I have an account with Core Cover. Single cover shipping is $275 for me in Wisconsin, for reference. Ask your dealer to just order the cover through Sundance. Might take a little longer to get the cover but they won't have as high a shipping cost if it ships with an order of hot tubs.

Former Hot Spring / Caldera dealer here. Is the salt system good or bad? Depends on what your expectations are. The salt system has a lot of variables that determine whether it will work as advertised. Specifically, source water quality / water chemistry and usage. With regards to corrosion, doubt it will be an issue. The salt level is lower than pool salt systems and yes, the heater is titanium. I personally didn't notice any more pump seal failures with salt, but I did notice more heater leak issues. Could have been coincidence, could have been worse quality during Covid, unsure. I also didn't see any jet leak issues, but that is just my experience. If there are jet leak issues now, it's more of a QC thing than saltwater problem, in my opinion. Hot Spring makes a quality product and the company will stand behind it. If you are only considering buying a Hot Spring because of salt water, I think that is a mistake because you eliminate many other good brands from consideration. If you are buying a Hot Spring because it is the right hot tub for you, then that is fine.

While I'm not an engineer at Watkins, I don't believe the Cantabria holds anymore water than the Prism even though it claims to hold 85 more gallons. The Prism is in fact 2" bigger in one direction. It also has more space since all the seats are full size. Maybe other's can chime in with more recent experience, but I haven't heard a lot of positive about SmartTop over the last few years from dealers who did sell them. I sold them from 2014-2016 but left that job and didn't get firsthand long-term feedback. Energy efficiency was always a concern and I would be curious / hesitant with long term durability. I have no experience with Covana. I personally would just stick with the factory cover and the Profit III / CoverCradle II cover lift.

Full disclosure. I was a Caldera and Hot Spring dealer from 2017-2022. Opened my own shop and now sell Sundance. If you are already looking at Hot Spring, also take a look at the Prism. Same size as the Cantabria but can accommodate more people. I wouldn't even bother with the Vanguard personally. Its a great hot tub that can barely fit 4 adults (and that is coming from someone who is 5'8"). If you're willing to consider non-lounge models, The Sundance Aspen and Jacuzzi J-495 could be good options. Maybe the Marquis Summit too. As long as you are looking at premium brands, which you are, I would focus more on what fits your needs and what dealer is likely going to be able to take the best care of you. Every product has its problems, pros and cons so I wouldn't let the little things like clip breakage on Bullfrog be a deterrent. If you do choose a lounge model, make sure to dry test and if possible wet test. Each lounge is different and there is no such thing as a no-float lounge. At my height, I didn't fit well in the Envoy/Cantabria/Geneva loungers. I did better in the Prism. I am not a lounge person, but if I had to buy a lounger hot tub today, it would still probably be a Caldera Seychelles even though I am no longer a Caldera dealer because that lounge fit me perfectly. I will also say this about the Grandee. Having a wide open foot well with no where to brace feet against can allow us vertically challenged people to have a hard time staying in the seat.

It looks and sounds like the pump is surging because it is not getting enough water. Assuming the water level is high enough, try running without the filter. A dirty filter will restrict water flow and can cause this. Some of the Coast Spas also had a separate skimmer basket that is separate from the filter. If you have that that check to make sure there is nothing in it that could restrict water flow.

Try unplugging the ACE controller from the circuit board.

The hoses are just slipped over the barb fitting on the heater. My guess is that they have conformed to those barbs and the hose has melted a bit to which it is stuck. if you heat up the hose ends and carefully use a small flat head screwdriver, you should be able to gradually pry them lose. Just be super careful with the one going to the circulation pump. Last thing you want to do is break that little nipple on the elbow and need to replace that too.

Does the remote lose the water care button for ACE or is it just not responsive? If you lose the water care button for ACE when this occurs, then yes, it stops sanitizing because the control box does not recognize that ACE is even installed. I believe you have 4 different zones for your lights, all of which are separate plugs on the circuit board. I would start by unplugging each zone one at a time and see what happens. If there is a short in one of the lights or light zones, it can cause other components to freak out and not work.

Yup, US dollars and I completely missed the part where electrical is included. Electrical can add a good chunk of change. My electrician tells me to inform customers electrical could cost $500-$1,200 USD as a general statement. But, each installation is unique and some will exceed that.

Each dealer sets their own pricing which is usually determined by the local economy and their overhead/cost of doing business. My pricing on the Peyton starts at $10,999 and Chelsee I start at $14,999. Keep in mind though that my pricing is irrelevant to your local dealer. That being said, I think they can sharpen their pricing a bit, but home much I cannot say since I don’t know your local economy of their cost of doing business.

Nordic makes a good quality, basic entry level hot tub. I can’t comment on price, but based on past experience and company reputation, they would be near the top of my list for a somewhat entry level hot tub.

How old is the water? The built in salt test is a conductivity test which measures salt and TDS. TDS (total dissolved solids) is a measure of all chemicals or anything that has been added to the water. A conductivity test doesn't know the difference between TDS and salt. The older your water, the higher the TDS. If the salt is 1,500 and the hot tub thinks its high, you likely have high TDS which requires a partial drain/refill to lower or you have dirty filters which are restricting the water flow and causing the system to falsely read the salt lever higher than it is.

Yeah, that's the current IQ2020 control box, code named "Eagle". Been in use since Q3 2012 on Hot Spring and probably a similar time with Caldera. To my knowledge, have always been made in China, but I can only verify back to 2017 when I first became a dealer. Those electronics were pretty darn reliable. I think I only had one relay board fail and cannot recall any of the main boards failing in 5+ years as a dealer. I wasn't a service tech so this is getting beyond my knowledge level, but if there is power going to the hot tub and relay board isn't fried, I would have to assume main board. If that is the case, you have to buy the entire IQ2020 control box and you would then need software installed and software jumpers set.

I think Nordic and Viking are probably your best options in that price range. If you don't mind a full roto-mold hot tub then you could also look into Freeflow and Dressmaker. The Hot Spring Prodigy that ratchett suggested is a great hot tub, but you would be hard pressed to get it for under $12k. While I am no longer a Hot Spring dealer and haven't seen the 2023 price increases, I was at $13,999 back in the summer after the last price increase.

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