Hillbilly Hot Tub

Now, I have to add that not ALL dealers and builders are like this but the ones that are not are in the minority! There is a reason why...chemical sales can be lucrative (and for many pool/spa supply stores their MAIN income) so it really is against the dealer's bottom line to balance your water and make it as maintenance free as possible since you won't be coming in regularly. Why do you think dealers love guess strips (test strips) and tell you that you have no need for a test kit like the Taylor K-2006? My main income is for repairs, those people that were not told, or refused to do proper water chemistry always have things breaking on their tub. we did a customer yesterday, we do him every year, replace his pump seals, replace broken jets and a heater. His water chemistry is to pour pool chlorine in when the water looks or smells bad. We tell him every year and write on his bill that he is not keeping his water chemistry correctly which is what is breaking the tub, but he wont change, so his "cheap" way to clean the tub is costing him hundreds of extra dollars. I like being in the minority of those dealers, it gets me many, many more customers, which over time makes me more money than those right now chemical sales. the always come back for their accessories, repairs and new tubs when they get to that point. More dealers need to learn that IMO.

I would suggest you read the above posts on chlorine (dichlor bleach method) it depends on spa use and what type of cholrine to how much chlorine you use, along with what is happening to the PH. Each chlorine has a different PH, differnt percentages of chlorine, and yes, you will have to put most any type of chlorine in daily or almost daily in a spa. PH is also affected by the jets and ozone(airaton of the spa) The foam is common in new tubs. The oils from the plastics are getting into the water. if you are using swimsuits, do not wash them very often and put them through a second rinse. make sure you have no lotion, makeup or anything on your body. You will need to drain the tub after about a month, this will give enough time to get the oils from the plastics out. Filter cleaning is also very important. foam away products do not get rid of the issue causing the foam, they mask it by effecting the surface tension on the water. You will have to put it in ever couple of days. Until you first drain, you can try using a frisbee, or something similar and scoop out as much of the foam as you can. A claarifier may help also, it will collect those particles that are to small and go through you filter and make them "stick" together and become larger so the filter will pick them up. i always suggest Sea Klear if it is available to you, its the only one I have found that does not create a scum line on the acrylic of the spa or filters.

Hey, water bear is not the only one, lets not make his head too big I am glad it is working out for you, WB did write up a nice easy step by step for people to use, and chem geek has always done a great job explaining the "chemical reation" side of the equation. Sometimes on forums, you get information overload and it gets all jumbled together, add a few people not understanding what is happening and it turns into a mess, its much like the game telephone we played as kids!

I had written a lengthly answer to you and I just lost my whole post and I really don't have the time or energy to waste posting my answer to you again. Just know that the ALEX software system is notorious for over dosing on chemicals since it is designed to increase a dealer's bottom line and not balance your water. If your water is balanced the dealer cannot sell you anything. I will say that right now your total alkalinity is TOO HIGH at 143 and needs to be lowered, not raised. and that adding pH increaser (sodium carbonate) increases BOTH pH and total alkalinity. You need to test BOTH pH and TA after ajusting either one and you need to know which chemical you need to adjust them. Alkalinity increaser-Sodium bicarbonate (aka sodium hydrogen carbonate) will raise TA and will cause pH to move to around 8.0 as carbon dioxide gases off but is not very useful when the pH is very low pH increaser-Sodium carbonate will raise pH when it is very low BUT is also raises TA faster than sodium bicarbonate. However, when the pH is below 7.0 the TA is also going to be very low! (unless you aerate to outgas CO2 which also raises pH but does not have any effect on TA Borax (sodium tetraborate, which is also sold in pool/spa supplies--Your Bioguard dealer used to sell Optimizer, which was just expensive borax, now the sell optimizer plus which is a mixture of borax and boric acid to be more pH neutal) raises pH but has minimal effect on TA. It will cause it to rise slightly and is dosed at twice the amount of sodium carbonate for the same pH rise. Have you added sodium bromide to create your bromide bank? From your readings I would have to say no. If you do not create a bromine reserve on filling then, depending on whether you are using BCDMH or DBDMH bromine tablets you either are running a chlorine spa for the first several weeks or you have a spa that will not maintain a proper bromine level for several weeks. Did you test your water after each addition of chemicals you made? I am assuming no and I do not think you have a test kit since you did not answer my previous questions. Good luck with your spa, you will need it. BTW, your problem is not that you started with SoftSoak, you started without a gameplan and even now you don't want to follow a sound one. Have you even replaced the filters? This is a NECESSARY step when converting from biguanide to halogens. Alex and all the rest of them are all the same programed to sell chems My taylormwise lab is dead on to the taylor test kit, its not out to get customers money, so i disagree, not all store labs lie and make people buy chemicals they do not need.

Sounds like the heater union is loose, or the gasket in the union is bad. where the white pipe hooks to the silver pipe is a union, try ti tighten it, if that dies not work, you will have to close the gate valves or drain the tub and replace the gasket inside, also check for cracks in the plumbing or on the nut that holds i on.

When I click on it, it says its not available in us stores.

I replied to you in the spa section.

i dont think water bear was saying you dumped them in all at once and it is what caused the issue, he is saying you were justing using a bunch of different chemicals, not knowing what they were or why you were putting them in, this added to your goop, and even with a different system such as bromine, if you do not understand what you are adding, how much, why you are adding it and what it does, you will have goop again. As i said earlier, pick a system you want to use, at the top of the forum there are write ups on each system(except biguinade) print these directions, plastic coat them and bring them out to the hot tub everytime you test it. Listen to 1 knowledgable person so you do not get suggestions intermixed and you should be ok. i think the smart choice is bromine for you untill you get a bit of a handle on water chemistry. print off waater bears directions, read them through once first, then follow them. They are very good and easy to follow.

High bromine will also give you a false high PH reading on test strips, ditto to water bear, get a good test kit, use the strips for quick in between readings

the nature 2 we sell have a direction book that has the full set of directions, start it with dichlor, mps before and after each use, dichlor as needed which is usually weekly or more if you use the tub daily, and to adjust you PH alk and CH weekly. I would read the manual from front to back, highlight what the dealer did not tell you and bring it back to show them that they are directing people wrong.

The foam that creates issues usually stays after the jets shut off. Foam that goes away quick could be that the PH was off, TDS was high and bromine tubs have the "fizzies" after they have been running a few months because of the build up of bromide.

I am not saying his dealer did good by him, but new hot tubs do have goo, all the plastics have oil on them that takes about a month to get rid of. The dealer should have told them that. I think the next bigggest mistake was being told to add this chemical and that chemical and it created a chemical soup. Many dealers hire seasonal staff and never train them properly. This then becomes a big issue. One staff person thinks it should be one way, another thinks something else and it ends up neither one of them were right. i would also have a fit with the dealer. Proper water chemistry, IMO, should be a continuing part of the sale. This is part of why people purchase from a dealer.

dont use bromine with nature 2, they do not work together. Also, if you mixed chlorine with a biguinade product it will cause all sorts of issues. At this point, I would swirl away to clean the plumbing, fill and deontaminate to make sure all is out, including the swirl away, decide what system you would like to use, and listen to 1 knowledable person to how to ru that system. Even here on the forum you will get conflicting advice since so many people post,and its like the game telephone. Chem geek, water bear, nitro, myself and a few others can talk you through stop by step on you water. Once you get set with the right info, you should really enjoy your tub. i think you have had some bad advice and information overload at this point.

well, it could be high metal, which has a strange smell that is hard to describe. mildew should be gone, and if your bromine readings are staying steady, not going to 0, i am going to guess it is. You could try another decontamination when you drain, turn jets on and off several times. Ahh, another thought. you said you are addressing a leak. a leak under the cabinet will make the foam and any wood framing wet and smell like mildew, and if it has been wet before, it may have mildew in the foam ect. The tub draws air from under the cabinet for ozone and the jets, thus it could be drawing in mildew smells from there also. Check under there, see if it smells. Just a thought.

Sea klear said they changed the recipe a bit, i have not tried this one yet, but sea klear has great produts. We have had great luck with swirl away also as far as scale and bromide salts.

I got your point, I think everyone else was saying depends on where you are. I hope to god we do not go up to .30 for electric, as i am guessing you hope not to go up to over $4.00 per gallon for propane I persoanlly think solar is the route we should be looking more into for hot tubs in the future. To each what works best for them!

it does not get a chance to gas off.

I see those posts above???? i think we are way losing the point of the original post. I nor anybody else was slamming on costco at all. period, take the post what ever way makes you feel good.

I'm trying to get my head around this. So ok, manufacturers do not refurb spas, local dealers do. Got it. So don't buy refurb tubs from Mr G's Liquidation Center Route 12 North Walpole, NH 03609 603-445-2412? I think that and a caution towards professional liscensed electrical installation is your main message. I do however have to ask, since many of them were from Costco, where were the not so many from, and what make and model and year? I think you're trying to do a public service here and again I appreciate that. I don't know why you, at the same time, try to make it something bigger than it is. This one guy had a bad 8 year old "Costco" hot tub nearly nuke the neighborhood, therefore all Costco tubs today are inferior. It's not said but implied. DK117 dont know how it was implied costco was bad, seems as if the entire story was about a store that bought costco returns, then sells them again, never checking out the product. I think a couple of you are reading more into it thinking it was about costco tubs...its about any kind of returned/junk tub being put back on the market without being refurbished or even checked out.

I dont see where you had a post deleted, since i am a moderator i would be able to see deleted posts, and I did not delete one so maybe it never posted?? Also, Mr.G's has only had a few tubs, but he is not the only one that purchases returns from costco, home depot or any of the other box stores. Also, did he mention, they ARE NOT refurbished??? Sorry i am trying to help people and for some reason Costco tub owners took it as a slame against their tubs when I NEVER said anything bad about tubs costco sells. Why are you all so thin skinned???

I dont see where you had a post deleted, since i am a moderator i would be able to see deleted posts, maybe it never posted??

Where did I ever put down costco or their tubs??? No where. i was warning people about buying used/refurbed tubs, it happens that these came from a costco lot sale. Costco's return policy is great for the consumer, no if ands or buts about that. Are you a bit touchy about any one talking about costco? Dont read more into what is written

what kind of oder, Mildew? fishy? Did you also replace the filter and pillows? new cover should not smell bad, should smell like new plastic.

Thanks HHT. I really don't think I have a problem but I was more curious if this seemed normal with both pumps on high all jets open (90 of 'em) and air injection running. Also nobody in the tub to slow anything down. I doubt that it is a soap problem, as I am the only one using the tub and I am always in commando. It has been about 2 1/2 months since water change, ph=7.6, ch=180, ta=90 salt level=3300 (this is a little high), usage is about every other night for about 30- 45 mins. The foam starts to dissipates almost immediately as you turn off pumps and/or blower, leaving no residue on top of the water but cloudiness in the water which clear as it settles. we see this a lot when the TDS (total dissolved solids) is high, since you use a SWG, your TDS is going to be high, it has to be because you have to add the salts. As you use the tub, this becomes higher over time. All the other chemicals you add, plus you body oils, skin sweat ect. will add to the TDS. The best thing we have found with this is SEA klears PRS syste,. It removes unwanted particles down to 3 microns, but it is pricy. Works great. Their regular clarifer also works pretty well, and much less pricy, plus these are safe clrifiers for the salt generaator. I would try that, After a couple of days of the clarifier, pull the filters and hose them off good. Your numbers look great.

here in the north east, it is cheaper to heat the tub with electric than gas, propane is very exspensive in our area, we do not have the underground natural gas lines that seem to be most cost effective than propane.Plus, 100% of the energy from electric is put into the water, where as gas you are losing heat out the chimney. on the flip side, we have done several heat exchangers for the outdoor wood furnaces that people have. the heat exchanger is only about $800.00 and since they are running the furnace anyway, there is no real addtional costs to heat the tub, just adding another small zone.