B0Darc

LOL! good stuff! ...the sight of me naked is instant birth control ...thank God for alcohol ...and my spa. I should recommend the County send pervs to peek through my knotholes, it'd be like an episode of "Sacred Straight" "I promise I'm cured I'll NEVER do that again!" I'm always trying to help folks out. We also use the cover of darkness and some nice plants (Hibiscus is great!) ...and a fence, and a tipped up spa cover. I mean I don't want to stop the whole neighborhood from getting lucky "Not tonight dear, I just saw our neighbors getting in their hot tub..." GPS! OMG I just realized... it's only a matter of time before someone gets captured on G00gle Maps... "oh that's your house as seen from satellite? Cool! Here type in my address...yeah now zoom in ...yeah that's my hot tub out back...and me and hubby in it...and we're ...ACK!!!" Ok Dr. Hottub there's a new spa product... a satellite privacy fence .....goes over your hot tub ...where's my patent Attorney?

I would likely be difficult to find something made especially for your model spa. It would be determined by how you had it setup... like on the ground, on a slab, on a deck? Made me think though... since it's outside you want something weatherproof, so pressure treated wood or plastic. maybe one of those plastic cabinets you can get for your garage then you can put your spa chemicals in there and lock 'em up (damn kids!) and use the top to place your martini on. You could make something from wood but you might not be too skilled or have the tools. How about two mail box posts? 4X4 pressure treated... you could drive them into the ground and just put so slatted 1x pressure treated across the bars where you would usually put a mailbox. Look at your Hombre Depot for some Summers End lawn furniture... maybe something you could take apart/cut and reconfigure (Teak Adirondack Chair) If you are made of money and like things just so, hire a local tradesperson that does like gazebos and fences and decks. You can also fly me out there and I can integrate your 7.1 DTS-Ex home theatre 70" flatscreen and speakers, with your black walnut wraparound bar with built-in Margarita machine and wetbar... but I'm not cheap ;-)

Every double-wide should have one... jokes aside, it's pretty creative ...I mean, I see braided steel lines and no duct tape. He needs sponsorship from Rubb3rmaid! You can almost see the YouTub video... cow walks up and starts drinking...

I am also "wary" of chemicals, but it will take some degree of dedicated expertise to keep your sanitizer levels at a minimum. By "sanitizer" I mean Chlorine or Bromine. It doesn't matter if you like them or not they are just non-optional. Chlorine, Bromine, and Iodine are all in the same family in the Periodic Table of elements are have a long history of being used as anti-microbials. While you may read alot of stuff about "free radicals" etc in your body, realize what we're talking about. Unless you are drinking your hottub water, are sensitive/allergic/ or have a reduced immune system, the levels of Chlorine and Bromine are for the most part harmless... especially if you can successfully keep them to a minimum WHILE IN THE TUB. 1 PPM is the absolute minimum, but maintaining that strictly at 1 PPM 24/7/365 is just not possible, and I say not good ...lemme tell ya why. And the shower idea is good but could never replace some type of sanitizer. You could scrub yourself raw and it wouldn't make a difference because on of the major "pollutants" of a spa is your own sweat. I believe it's 3 pints of sweat every twenty minutes in a hot spa ...per bather. You can't worry about the small amount of chlorine or bromine while being in denial that you could just add carrots, celery, and potatoes and make a tasty broth after a month or two (!?!?Ack!) MPS is also not a "sanitizer", it's goal is to burn up some of that protienoid brew that is the remnants of YOU, so it can be filtered out. MPS can also be a cure if you have too much chlorine, because it lowers the level of sanitizer while doing it's main job of destroying organic stuff. So really you have two challenges, to remove the stuff you are adding to the water, to eliminate it chemically, and to kill all the single-celled organisms feasting on the remnants of YOU... before they feast ON YOU ...and if you haven't read about hot tub rash, well... The real deal is that you CANNOT set your max chlorine/bromine level at 1 PPM because the chlorine/bromine dissipate. Chlorine is chlorine and I use Clorox when I get out. I can't remember the last time I bought MPS. I don't need it because I have a very predictable scheduled use of my spa... every morning first thing. I get out and add Clorox and don't get back in for 23 1/2 hours predictably. When I get out and add Clorox it's likely closer to 5 PPM and I would NOT (personally) want to get back in with the Chlorine at that level... don't like the smell. If I had a spa emergency (company!) and they wanted to get in at noon I would likely add some MPS and run the jets for 15 minutes and they'd be getting in with the chlorine level at maybe 3 PPM. For me 23 1/2 hours later the chlorine is at 1-2 PPM and is barely detectable. If I got out and only added enough chlorine to bring my spa up to 1 PPM it would not last until the next day even with the cover on For shocking I double up on the Clorox and run the jets with the bubbles on. Aeration is an important part of dissipating the combined chlorine/ammonia that most people complain about as Chlorine smell. Chloramine (chlorine and ammonia combined from sweat and Clorox) burns your eyes and is offensive way over and above the smell of chlorine. Running your jets for a cycle or three on "shock day" is crucial to eliminating Chloramine and other gasses dissolved in your spa water... really chlorine is the LEAST of your worries, and you shouldn't be confusing the stinky byproducts of sanitation (chloramine!) with chlorine itself... I mean you can't have one without the other, but then you can't have safe water for an extended period without some scientifically approved/tested sanitizer. Thanks Hillbilly for the Ecosmartwater link, that looks pretty cool! ...but Nitro said it all. "Why not just use chlorine and be done with it?" Clorox is cheap! a couple pound canister of pHDown and a test kit ...oh and a visit to the "Hot Tub Water Chemistry" forum right here (one step up) and you can eliminate all the uncertainty of keeping your spa effortlessly clear and *safe*... for a couple bucks a month! Oh and I dump my water on the ground and the watering your garden sounds smart, but the process of use/sanitation... especially with clorox, can make spa water very high in sodium salt. I don't think it would an ideal solution. Really you use 200 gallons a week? Hmm something to think about. Bo "I got what plants need >>Electrolytes!" Darc

I'll get some pics maybe tomorrow? I hope anyway. I kept forgetting to take my camera out there. I was in that tub 3 times today! Hey, if you use the tub multiple times in a day, is it necessary to shock everytime, or just maybe at the end of the day? It seems excessive to shock several times in one day, but I don't know. Anne congrats! nothing quite like it, eh? Well you should have ended on BBQ oysters and started a new thread with your water chemistry question. There's lots to know and it can be very simple. However there are many basic questions we would have to ask first, like what kind of water treatment did you get set up with... but wait don't answer that here. Go UP one level in this forum to the Hot Tub Water Chemistry and read some posts there first. I will tell you quickly you can add a little shock every time you get out... non-chlorine shock is like the "Chicken soup" of the spa world... "couldn't hurt. Get the Hubster online with you and check out all he good tips re: how to take care of your water... hehe maybe he'll make that one of HIS chores . LOL maybe you could reverse the old washing machine (man!)trick and throw a red sweatshirt in the spa and turn it pink... then he won't let you touch any of the spa chemicals. Doh!? did I just tell a wife a Man secret about how we get outta doin' the wash? Oh and these are jokes don't *really* through a red sweatshirt into your spa it might in fact turn your water pink and stain your shell. Oh and I made all that up about us guys throwing red stuff in with your white stuff so we can get taken off laundry duty *cough* that's just an old Bill Cosby bit.

Well it sounds like Dr. Spa's answer did you the most good... that's why he's the Dr. It's good to know that in fact Artesian only offers 4 color covers, especially going back to the dealer and hearing him tell you that later on... makes it easier to believe. Business is tough all around these days and profit margins are lean... customer service goes first. If he takes it back and gives you another cover then he has to give the cover you used for X-number of days to some other guy... translation now it just may be true to say he sells used covers as new... he can't really do that. Try living with it for a few weeks and the feeling of "blah... Samsonite-Oxen" may pass. Stress is bad... and you just bought a hot tub to relax. Mix up something frosty and cold, sip whilst in your new spa, and decide ...then act on your decision. If the money doesn't matter just pay the guy to recover it and chalk it up to the cost of making yourself happy.... I mean Artesian doesn't offer one, so... what? I hear ya though! receipt said taupe cover... sigh

As with any buying decision this size, you may have your mind changed along the way. You slide down the slippery slope I too fell down... the slippery slope to happiness ;-) The real decision is how much money do you really have to burn on this thing and what kind of deal can you swing with SpaDealerX. We gave you some good research but in the end you will have to drive to various spa dealers and see first hand what is what. Bring some shoes you can kick off and get in some tubs! There were some nice looking 2-person spas I couldn't get in comfortably nor imagine getting in with the missss. When you get serious and it's down to a couple-3 tubs, ask politely if you can wet test with the Missss. The slippery slope for me was that larger spas were close to the price of the nice 2-person spas and in the end we purchased a mid-level 5 person spa. The real deal with a 4-6 person spa is that it's functionally big enough to comfortably play musical chairs... getting the various targeted hydrotherapy benefits designed into each seat/zone. Like I said for me this AM it was neck/shoulders, other days feet or lower back, but generqally we slide around taking turns for a total massage. Like you want to do, we drink our morning coffee in the spa. I'm more awake in 15 minutes and one cup of coffee than an hour and fifteen minutes and a half pot of coffee with no spa. With electrical hook up I was way over budget and I started to think maybe I was loosing control of this buying decision. Like you I knew I wanted a spa and we initially looked at smaller 2-person spas. I ended up with a 7' X 7' spa, but I have zero regrets. Like I said, nothing makes friends like a spa, and friends will never get in your two person spa with you I promise. A 5-6 person spa seats 4 very comforably with a nice degree of personal space/privacy. Owning a spa is a definite luxury, there's no other way to put it. Spending 7+ grand on a bathtub sounds foolish on paper, and for those who don't know what it means to truly "soak" or just start your day with a quick cup of coffee and a full body hydrotherapy session... every one will think you're nuts!!! ...except for everyone on this forum. It may be the greatest thing I ever did for myself and my marriage too! Speaking of which, yes, jets and jet placement are important. Choose wisely my brother, ye and she will either be patting each other on the back every morning whilst you down a cup o' beans, or you will be wondering why you thought it was so important to save a couple bucks... ok ok a couple thousand bucks. Don't buy her a spa you have to beg her to get into, buy her a spa you can't get her out of... God i really should sell the damn things, and i have been accused of being a Spa Dealer, but it ain't so. I'm just addicted! Spas are like crack for old people! ... and I'm old ...but I feel alot less old when I get outta my spa every morning and head for that 2nd cup o' Joe.

Listen to Hillbilly! When looking at hot tubs realize you are looking at jetted tubs and very much different "spas". Sounds more like you are looking for a spa for some serious hydrotherapy and quality alone time with the Misss. I think one of the main advantages of tubs is that there's no water maintainence... you just drain them, but if you plan on dayly or frequent soaking, that could get expensive. So it's more of a targeted decision. Tubs are cheaper but have underpowered motors and may be more focused on fizzy bubblebaths than hydrotherapy...buuut I have seen (and been in) some pretty nice jetted tubs. As with anything you get what you pay for, quality/performance-wise. It will likely be NOT possible to test (get in with swimming trunks!) a jetted tub displayed at the HommesDepot, but very likely you CAN get in a spa at a dealership. This decision could easily top $2 grand installed and you want to be happy. "Wet testing" is the #1 way to get confident you are spending your money well. Don't scrimp on a fan either! A noisy fan could ruin the whole experience... now we're back at the HombreDepot. Moisture can be more than just damaging it can be a health risk along with the chemicals/gases given off by maintaining your water. Do a search on here for a post on "indoor pools" and the health risks... I believe some government agency did a report. A nice *deep* spa can be very important. For me this morning my neck was "cricked". My hottub has an over the shoulder seat with neck/shoulder jets... 5 minutes later I was healed. The frustration with jetted tubs is trying to submerge yourself below the drain overflow to get a full body effect... not very relaxing with a bad back. Oh yeah and measure to make sure whatever you buy will fit through doors or windows into your basement!

How do I change my font to that "green with envy" color? Sheeesh #6 laying around!??! 25' feet of #8 for ten bucks! ...*and* he bought you a hottub!? Count your blessings Missy!! ;-) ...friiiied Oooystersss Oooooo I just might have to make me some o those!

Reversed polarity on a single speaker can cancel the output of another, because speakers produce the same sound on both sides of the speaker cone. When polarity is switched one speaker is moving outwards while the out-of-phase speaker is simultaneously moving backwards. This can generate a noise-cancelling effect. To test, first TURN OFF THE SYSTEM and better yet flip the breaker (um to the OFF position). Look at your wires. It doesn't matter if red (or striped) wire is +, it just matters if all the defined (by color or striping) are connected to the same... be it + or - If it's difficult to see switch ONE set of speaker wires on one of the bottom transducers WHILE IT'S POWERED OFF. Once connected turn it all back on and test. If you get no result, switch that speaker back (again only while off) and try the other bottom speaker the same way. If you get half results switch both transducer (bottom speakers) wire sets... but NOT as the first test. You won't know what you've fixed if you try too many options in one attempt. It may be possible the transducers are both flipped (polarity) and are noise-cancelling the two matching stereo (higher freq range) speakers up top. That would explain why Mr.Stereo Genius thought it was wired properly... even though it didn't work right (sheeesh). All the speaker posts are same polairty but at the amp they are flipped. Of course this is easily checked if visually possible, but my stereo allows for polarity changes internally so could = one set is out of phase. There are also test CDs with noise tests for polarity testing. If I am confusing you then you may not be the person to perform this task... ask a 15 year old... they can also fix the flashing 12:00 on your VCR ...by making you buy a Playstation3 so you can watch Blu-Ray movies instead of VHS tapes ...because Playstation3s don't blink 12:00 ...did I just date myself? I don't mean go on a date with myself, that's another *Forum* ...you know like what year I was born? ...what were we talking about? REMEMBER:Never, ever work on your stereo while powered ON. I am not a spa tech nor am I a stereo Tech... I'm waaay more LOL! Oh and I accept cold beer as payment, oh and if you blow up your spa stereo system and void your warranty just come see me! My name is Bo Darc and I live at 123 DontBelieveEverythingSomeoneTellsYouToDoOnTheInternetSilly Blvd, Information Super HWY, 90210

That statement will help you. If you're a decent DIYer and you follow directions you'll be fine. The problem sometimes is with people/electricians who think "directions bah, I know how to wire a spa" and don't pay enough attention to the directions/schematic and have to backtrack later when it doesn't operate properly. Glad to hear you got the credit issue resolved. I'd hate to see hubby dressed like a pirate playing guitar and singing for tourists in a seafood restaurant because his credit got hacked!! LOL! I have a friend who had a friend do her electric and it was somehow substandard... I mean it worked but would regularly trip. I likely paid more than anyone on the planet to have my electrical installed. My panel/box for my main house was 10 feet away but every slot was wired with a breaker, so they had to run a line from the opposite side of the house. That gauge wire is over $3 a foot, a breaker is $50 and a waterproof box is more (and electricians like to drive Corvettes). I was glad to have it done by the book and warrantied by someone else, but was unhappy about the cost of running 150' of wire and two electricians ($1,400) ACK! buuut it was done masterfully, is fully waterproof in every way, and has never tripped once. My friend who saved a couple hundred bucks is screwing with hers regularly (false tripping) I mean $1,400 buys a lot of frosty beverages, but you can't enjoy them if your getting in/out o' your tub to reset the breaker because the jets *and* the heater came on at once. Take your time and get it right, don't cut corners, and post some pictures on here if you can figure that out too ;-) (get a photobucket account LOL)

As a customer purchasing a new spa it may just be a matter of Customer Satisfaction. I think if you lived in a northern climate you might benefit from some solar heating effects from a darker colored cover, so matching the sides may not be the only criteria for color choice. Realize your choice may have been based on inventory of covers back at your Dealer, and in that way was not so much a "choice". I do get your point, I mean you don't wanna look like a whiney freak worrying about something *no one* else would worry about, but a good dealer will truly want you to be happy after giving him 8+ grand of your hard earned cash. A business person's worst nightmare is the customer who complains to everybody but him. Nothing is more important that a top quality cover...uhmmm and mine matches. Get happy, and give your guy a chance to make it so. Many sizes are standard and he may have another brand cover that matches... even if it's another hundred bucks. Remember you're gonna be looking at it ALOT, and it protects your spa when your dumb@ss brother-in-law comes over with his big@ss dogs and you go out to the spa to find the dogs standing on top of your spa cover... sigh ;-) Bo "They'll have to pry my spa from my pale, wrinkled, dead fingers..." Darc

I'd look at some of the small corner shaped 2-person spas like these: http://www.calderaspas.com/Spa_Showroom_Ho...b_aventine.html http://www.solanaspas.com/showroom_tx.html http://www.marquisspas.com/spa_rendezvous.asp http://www.sundancespas.com/680Series/Tacoma.html Listen to spatech he's the man! think 2-person ...even if you are elderly, nothing makes friends faster than a bubbling hottub. If you're lucky there's a liquor store between your house and the bingo parlour... see Pauly these are jokes, but if you are single there's nothing funny about a hot tub for ONE. Now... if you are married and have 5 kids then a hottub for ONE in the unfinished basement is hysterically right on the money. What were we talking about? oh yeah. A warrantied installation is important and don't forget to get detailed info about the electric hookup (!!$$!!) When the Misss and i were looking we found quite a few choices just at the local Home superstores (more tub-like), and Spatech covered the spa brands perfectly well. Seriously though, Best wishes for improved health... hydrotherapy is real, and in this realm you get what you pay for ...not a time to be cheap, this is for you.

Howdy Neighbor, I don't really need any experience with your model tub as natural cedar is exactly that... natural. After a year of sun it will look "rustic" No wood finish made will stand up to day after day of direct sun. If you are NOT a fan of the Rustic look then an annual application of Th0mpsons Watre seal (pardon the g00gle blocking) would be advised... do it when you do your deck. Just be sure to not get any on your spa shell. You could use any exterior wood treatment, linseed oil, tung oil, but you will be doing this at least once or twice a year... actually it might be a good idea to do from day one. Sealing out water from raw wood in winter time is smart. Use extra care to not get any oil-solvent-based chemicals on your acrylic shell! Sounds pretty though...

yeah nice work and post. I know there are alot of posts along this line but having read widely on this subject I have also read about some damage to tubs/shells from overheating. I'm not saying you should worry about overheating, and it sounds like you are applying some good science by monitoring temperatures inside the cabinet. Hey seen those remote thermometers where you put the sensor outside and have the monitor inside? hmmm that could be informative real-time, then you could still get some use from it post-experiment. I too was very disappointed when I checked out my insulation, and kinda had plans to do something similar. However after watching the solar heating effects this summer (My cover is a dark color and gets direct sun) I was noticing how insulated it actually was because in the early morning hours when I got in this summer it was heated above the thermostatic temperature... long after being exposed to any sun. I have also read on here folks talking about damage (blistering etc) on spas that went overtemp. All spas are different and local weather obviously is different, but we all may be interested in more live data downstream as it gets colder. I think spa manufacturers are trying to find a middle ground in terms of insulation, and we all know some spa manufacturers that cater to Northern climates... but we all don't live up North, and actually heat build up might be our problem in warmer climates. I don't think manufacturers are trying to save 10$, I think it may just be a careful decision based on satisfying the minimal needs and avoid any over-insulation caused damage because of combined sun and motor heat in a fully/maximally insulated spa. You fit the "Northern" description and it makes sense, but I'm saying that by default all spas likely come with nominal insulation for some scientific reason... lower operating temps for electronics and motors could translate into longer lifecycles and save more money in the long run (repairs) over the cost of heating the water. Great post... professional even! Still may just do some of that myself come Frost.

I re-read your post carefully. Step #1 I am not a spa tech. Step #2 never take any of my advice, and always listen to these guys... now onto some logic. 1.) If your pump works OK upon reset the pump works OK. A bad pump would always be bad. 2.) When you get an OHH error the pump AND heater stop working, correct gentlemen? That means if your filter is restrictive and the low speed can't draw enough water the heater could over heat... trip the error and kill the pump and heater. a test would be run without filters for a short time. Read your manual where it says to never run the spa with no filtration. I had this same problem. I also have balboa electronics, but i have a 24/7 dedicated circ pump. when I press my #1 pump button it goes only to high. When I had a calcified filter it slowed the flow of water enough to trip an overheat code and kill my circ pump. If I flipped the breaker it would reset and work one more time... till it threw the code and shut off the heater and the circ pump. My filters looked clean because i clean them well (hose and filter cleaner [milky limonene-based removes oil]) but my pleated paper filter actually looked a little too white. I got some advice which you shouldn't follow to use CLR (Calcium Lime rust) which is consumer strength phosphoric acid (I beleive) for like cleaning your shower stall and tub etc. I found it at the W_Mart... there's a competing brand which escapes me, basically a home cleaner that removes calcium/Lime ...look under your sink! I soaked my pleated paper filter for a few hours and rinsed fully (a 5-gallon paint bucket works good for cleaning filters... got one at the H_Depot). A de-calcified filter cleared my OHH error code.

Doh I definitely spaced that, but yeah I regularly add pH Down (dry acid granules, Sodium Bisulfate), but it's pretty powerful stuff and only requires a couple tablespoons (I'll leave balancing your Total Alkalinity for another day!), and it's relatively cheap as spa chemicals go. And my source water is very good so i don't have metal and mineral problems on refill. While I do test my pH, I'm pretty sensitive to the feel of my water... which likely sounds dumb, but honestly I smell my water and feel it and can give a pretty good pH/Free Chlorine/Cloramine "test" after doing both (actual testing) for a year. Scientifically speaking though too high or low pH chemically changes the oil on the surface of your skin and I feel it just skin to skin or skin to Lexan (Spa shell). While I don't wait for my palms to get itchy to add some pHDown, it will remind you if you procrastinate. It's interesting how the careful balance of your water is actually one of the most critical elements of enjoying every aspect of your soaking experience. I really do have to thank all of you guys...not just chemgeek. All you regulars that contribute and you know who you are... thanks. Selecting the right spa is one thing but there's so much more to consider. My daily Clorox regime would surely fail for someone who only gets in on the weekends...and if I had 5 teenagers there wouldn't be enough Clorox LOL! Is there a depleted Uranium based sanitizing system? ;-) Once you get all the facts, and I got all mine right here, it's really not so hard... precise maybe, but not hard.

Very Interesting. Perhaps a case of "occupational exposure", like Doctors who become allergic to latex gloves after years of wearing them. Have you looked into the salted spa topics? Like using Epsom Salt? That was a topic earlier this year on here and there was some external link which claimed that water stayed clear without sanitizers. You could likely find it on here searching with "Epsom" and while it is somewhat hard to imagine, that if it worked why would not all of us do it, I think it's a rather large amount of Epsom salt for a 400 gallon spa, so it had an expense downside. Thinking back I don't believe our experts felt the need to debunk the claim and in fact said "...it could happen". There are also other folks on the Internet who claim to be able to deliver chemical-free, critter-free spa water, but our experts DID give disapproval, quoting the Federal Government standards for clean water ...most plainly said it requires some form of chlorine or bromine. Well best wishes anyways. If you have become sensitized, allergic, or have a lowered immune system, it may just be time to get a nice jetted tub... perhaps for two. We looked at some nice ones. If your immune system is lowered for whatever reason a piece of undercooked chicken can be life threatening, and a Dr may recommend you *not* get in a hottub. But even a jetted tub will be filled with city water... with chlorine, and bacteria builds up in the pipes over time (biolayer) It sounds like you really miss your "soak", or dread the anticipated loss of soak-time. It sounds like you enjoy experimentation and you may enjoy getting a water test kit (again read the water chemistry section here for recommended test kits under $100) I mean if you feel you CAN get in your tap water no problem (like a shower or bath), you may be surprised how much chlorine is actually in that tap water. Again my spa chlorination method is ONLY successful because I do it daily, and it's interesting how the concentration of chlorine (very volatile stuff!) can dramatically change in 23 1/2 hours. It works for me because I keep it at a minimum, but I cannot skip a day or I will have cloudy water. On the day or two a week where I don't get in I still have to slide the cover back and pour in a few ounces. We wear colored bathing suits and T-Shirts and have minimal bleaching. I just wonder if you are having problems with your skin reacting to something other than the chlorine in your spa leading you to believe it's sanitizer related. Translation... if you can get into a tub, and be OK then you have some resistance to chlorine, and a water test kit could debug that mystery. Uuhh uhhm also if you have a water softener, that needs to be switched to bypass so no "softened" water goes in your spa (!!) The water is so highly buffered with Sodium you can never get it balanced where it can go "the distance". I just feel for you Machaon... when my spa was down for a week I was in the shower with the shower massage trying to simulate my spa hydrotherapy... it was a sad sad week. Buuut necessity is the Mother of Invention. Come back and let us know about any new breakthroughs Oh and take a second to google "Epsom salt in my spa" B0 "they'll pry my spa from my cold dead fingers" Darc

I'm not exactly the guy to ask, but i know it's possible to change how often your circ pump runs ...if you have one. I'm not sure what brand of electronics your spa has but if you see a "Mode" button, give it a press. Often you have several options for filtration ...more filtration = cleaner water and more electricty usage = more money. So often you will see options like Ecn for Economy Mode etc. You may have an option that turns of 24/7 circulation to save $. You should have a manual for your spa or you can get one with a quick google of your spa model and the word "manual". Your installer may have set you up one way but you may have flipped the breaker to off and reset to the default settings which are often Ecn (economy!) So your circ put may not run as often. Read your manual and just try some of the other settings. My circ pump runs 24/7, but my spa has a dedicated smaller pump while many spas Pump#1 just runs at half speed. I'm sure a more informed tech would know, but reading your manual is a good way to also see things like error messages you may see... you may have other problems (clogged filters can turn off heater etc)

Hiyas peeps long time no see! Well I was checkin' out some old email and ended up back here. Great thread. I'll spare all the quotes and just tell my story. I have a 400 gallon spa with an mineral add-on filter and an ozonator, and since I started following chemgeeks advice of 2 weeks of di-chlor and then several fluid ounces of Clorox daily I have just enjoyed 6 months of clear water! I was trying to go for the record and actually about half way through my little experiment I over filled the spa and likely performed the equivalent of replacing half of the water. I went all the way through spring and summer on one batch of water and only towards the last week or two was I getting foaming and "sluggish" water (aeration bubbles don't dissipate as quickly) Now to clarify, chemgeek never said you should attempt 6 months, but it was so easy! I'm sure however the half change-out contributed greatly. I never needed to add anything but Clorox. Weekly I would add double-triple Clorox for shock and it worked noticeably well. I also have 1+ year old filters because i degrease them with filter cleaner monthly (or about 3 times every two months) and use CLR (Calcium Lime rust) every couple months to de mineralize the paper/outer filter. For weekly cleaning I toss them in the dishwasher with plain Cascade dish powder on RINSE ONLY (drying with heated elements would be DUMB!) and take them right out. This year I have likely spent 20$ on Clorox and $15 on Di-Chlor... that's it. The wifey and I use it every day for about 15-30 minutes and longer if friends come over... about 6 days a week. Machaon... here's the trick. Learning the minimum amount of Clorox to add WHEN YOU GET OUT so there is only 1 PPM (minimum readable amount on your test strip) for when you get in! Right after I add Clorox it's all the way up there at 5 ppm, but 24 hours later you will be barely able to detect the chlorine and it's incredibly harmless to your skin... much less than the bacteria!. When you get out run your jets for a cycle or two with the Clorox added and on the weekends when you shock be sure you run your jets for about an hour with the double-Clorox shock... then clean your filter. Before I came to this forum I WAS STRUGGLING with my hot tub/water. I also was wary of chemicals. While Clorox is obviously very powerful in it's concentrated form... a third of a cup in 400 gallons of water is enough to kill about everything and be dissipated 24 hours later when you get back in! If you find you have to shock or kill bad stuff out-of-cycle (companies coming!) the non-chlorine shock works because you can get right in 15 minutes later. It's simply an oxygen based equivalent of Clorox ...I haven't bought Oxone based (non-chlorine shock) in almost a year. Since I get in every day and add Clorox daily I have ZERO problems. We just came back from vacation and I just added like a cup of Clorox and covered it up tight as we walked out the door... it was ready to get in when I returned 7 days later ...well actually I added several ounces that night we got in ;-) So... don't be afraid of Chlorine. If you do it consistently and read more of the advice on the forum one level up (Water Chemistry) you should feel more comfy. A better quality test kit might give you more scientific results instead of simple (and perhaps not so accurate) test strips. When I get in my spa the last thing I want to do is smell Chlorine, so I have managed to know exactly how *little* Clorox I can get away with adding, and when it smells like Chlorine it's actually more than likely Chloramine which is the combining of the Clorox and my bodies ammonia. If thats a problem, just run the jets for a cycle or two before you get in and know it's time to double up to shock, run your aerated jets for an hour and clean your filters. That's why you need to run your jets for a cycle or two when you get out and have just added add chlorine ... you just made a fresh batch of Chloramine and the bubbling jets help speed that dissipating The cost of water to change out every week would make your soaking fun painfully un$$fun. How much is 400 gallons of $water$? Don't forget the 800 gallon charge for $$Sewer$$ Most cities charge (additional 2X water cost... even if it doesn't go down the drain!) I missed you guys! Thanks for saving me a couple of HUNDRED bucks (easy!) on spa chemicals! uh not to mention ...water ...sewer ...the time ...and ease ...oh yeah no topical skin infections (!!!) oh I just reminded myself it's time to go do my spa... where is that Margarita mix?

Well I'll keep it simple, because I'm nowhere near being in the pool and spa industry and never have been. We looked at alot of spas but they were all tub-side-up so I never had had the opportunity to get a peek inside every brand of spa. All I saw was the part I currently interact with... shell, water, jets, and that's all I really care about ....now hhaha until something breaks. We'll see how that goes. Me pitching for Master Spa? [chuckling] For all I have said about Master Spa on this forum... if I worked for MS I would fire myself and that's after re-enacting a scene from Fight Club in the parking garage. The only thing good about Master Spas as far as I'm concerned is my spa. I have received good service and my dealer has to travel, so service has also been very good... I mean I have never had to pay anything or call repeatedly. I really made the decision on design and the way it was powered... but then my car uses 93 octane and goes 0-60 in under 5 seconds... so I spend more on gas in 3 days than I spend on electricity in the worst month in my spa. If I wanna go from 99 degrees to 104 I can (and do) just bump it up whilst I'm in. And while it takes longer than 5 seconds I certainly don't have to shut off jets or bubbles so it'll heat in Winter. Maybe next time I do that, I'll clock it. While it may not qualify as a high end spa, it does not in any way *seem* (performance-wise) to have a weak/budget heater or pumps or filtration. I'm no spa technician so I have no knowledge of pump/heater models or lifecycle expectancy. Maybe down the road I'll discover the weaker points of design or manufacture... I'm just not seeing them now, at all, not in the very least. IMHO it's the perfect spa for us... it was chosen by me over other models/brands ...and they didn't exactly give it away. We like it as much now as we did then... what? All joy, no remorse ...hahaha except for the Carney Sales Event but hey that's shootin' fish in a barrel and callin' it huntin'.

Good luck really. I hear ya. I'm feeling it myself. It's a weird time Economically speaking and everybody's gettin' weird on me too. I recently returned a new major purchase... I'll spare everyone the details, it was basically new and poorly designed to the point of defective. Now I can't find a suitable replacement as this is the end of many corporate/retail tax years (Jan 31 not Dec 31). Inventories are crazy low and the imminent release of new product lines and closing out of last years inventory is almost toxic to Buyers. I'm doing without for now... I'm on hold. You might also be wise to wait for the pendulum to swing. For me it feels like swimming upstream... think I'll wait for the tide to shift... oh and I *don't* buy unless the deal is tasty. These days "New" is almost always better and a little cheaper. Just realize that goes both ways... like the Jewelry kiosk at the mall selling gold chains with the permanent 50% off sign. Doesn't our demand to haggle really create some of the pseudo-gouging in a way? heh... not that you're being pseudo-gouged, sounds like your dealer is hanging on for dear life! [chuckling] Maybe his daughter is getting married and he needs someone to pay for the flowers. Be patient, $tay liquid, but if you gotta soak, you gotta soak. I mean the phrases "Buyers Market - Sellers Market" have real meaning... sounds like he has you over a barrel (spa joke!) While I like a deal surely as much as you, there have been times I had to relinquish and pay the man... hey Seller's Market. hhaha and watch out for that pendulum swinging, it weighs like a couple tons and is razor sharp... you can outsmart yourself. But I'm with you... how can you drop 10 grand and not be happy? I think there's a Sales lesson in there ;-)

I have a Down East Exeter and we love it. It has cost me about a $1 a day to power it this winter. Personally I'd rather have a tub that can heat and have jets and bubbles all at the same time. The circ pump runs 24/7 and it's a constant low hum, but not annoying, just obviously using constant of electric. However it's by design and you make your choice. We got the additional jet pump so we have two foot jets, so the $30 a month this winter is about max (for us) and likely a max ballpark for this model with all options (I am hoping. [haha]) ..and of course this is NOT a scientific power analysis in the least, so chalk it up to "worst case scenario" or "Internet anecdotal story" So I have a circ pump (no button) and Jet1 jet 2 and jet3 buttons. If you only have one foot jet you have one less pump and one less button. The dual foot jets are sweet and I don't think you can even stand any seat in the thing for longer than 60 seconds if you adjusted all the jets to max and flipped on the air vents. It seemed to be one of the most powerful spas we looked at. Each nozzle is highly adjustable so it's easy to make it just how the individual likes their level of hydrotherapy... and the Mrs agrees that all of the jets are properly located. What? That was actually a consideration that un-chose some other models... jet location. The over the shoulder jets are pretty cool, and the ergonomics or the tub seems ideal as we like to play like musical chairs and move around the spa during heavy jet hydrotherapy sessions... very comfortable, but also provides lots of curved spots for stretching as you slide around. The extra electricity required is all put to use in powerful massage and constant temperature... it's always on exactly what you set it on. I recently had to refill and it heated from 40 degrees to 100 in a several hours. While Down East is Master Spas mid-grade spa it has never struck me as cut quality. The one thing was the reduced level of insulation, and the frame is made from hardwood plywood with steel beam main supports in the corners (Master Spas are all steel frame)... all things I could live with for the affordability and features ..and price

Too true! I wish we could dispel the notion that using chlorine in your spa results in any of that. Showering is not necessary, as a matter of fact the condition of my skin after a daily soak is pretty much outstanding. Since my skin is so old that's almost the best part. I guess thats the best reward for staying on top of your water testing, be it chlorine or bromine, as bromine users above report the same joy... pppsssst TinyB I just think it's jealousy ;-) <ahem> are these people without a hottub?

Yeah I certainly didn't want to bash mineral and ozone, because as quoted above the sum of sanitizer + these two may be better. I can't post about having clear water and say they are bad since in fact EcoPur and ozone are actively working for me. ..but you got my point, that in fact they may not be necessary ...and my other question was how difficult it would be to keep your chlorine reading in such a tight and low range without frequent additions of perhaps smaller amounts of sanitizer? Can you *causally* maintain your spa as directed in my manual to a reading of 1-3 ppm FC? ...with Dichlor? I guess I could deliver scientific results if I could make sure my chlorine level *never* went over 3 ppm and I never had any problems, but I think you may be more correct in your discussion of "probability". The first water problem I had in my spa came immediately after finding a very dead toad in my filter compartment... so you never really know Bromine? I'm not against bromine systems either, and they are probably the easiest to maintain with the least knowledge of chemistry. That Pacific Spas system sounds nice, but realize us "Clorox People" are spending like $5 a month on spa chemicals. Of course for all new people reading this, realize it *will* be a very personal decision, and I think we have all officially found that's the one thing to agree on in this thread. Bo "Cheap and Easy" Darc