philalethes

Geekster, I'm a bright enough guy [iQ 140] but I'm kind of a multi-tasker and sometimes lose the thread. I found it onerous to have to monitor the chemistry all the time, and yes, I could space out. I gave it the ole College Try as they say. When I was in Ashland OR it was a snap with bromine. When I got out to Nevada in the high desert and spring water off the mountain, the Pool Calculator didn't seem to work so well. I went bromine, then chlorine, then back to bromine... then chlorine.... The simplicity of the enzyme method suits me well. I'm thinking it's not practical for public pools, and maybe not for large crowds slobbering up a spa. I've really enjoyed reading the thoughtful essays by yourself and Nitro and Waterbear, et al., 'cuz I'm an information junkie. I just wanted to pass on my experience to help others who may not be so dedicated to daily measurements. It's guys like you who make this a great forum and repository for the ins-and-outs of the arcane world of water mystery and chem-mystery!

O Geeky One, yes, buried in my post I mentioned I have an ozonator, but can't tell if it's working. Bubbles come out. Once I got a test kit, you cut the line and insert a tube with some reactant in it. Much trouble to do. As mentioned I have increased my filtration to 8 hrs daily; will report back if this solves the buildup. I wish I were more knowledgeable on chemical/biological issues. I think I'll get one of the Millipore test kits after this batch has run a couple of months, to check on the bacterial level, and then report back. I'd love to read of a discussion someone like Chem Geek could have with Cal on wherever their conversation goes. Cal is super friendly and approachable. This could add to the group's overall understanding of how to get the effects we want; pleasurable & safe hot tub fun!

I have had a 340 gallon hot tub since 2008, and have had varying degrees of success with sanitizing with either bromine or chlorine, e.g. using the BBB method. I have come to this forum many times for advice. My success has varied. I have both the Taylor bromine and chlorine test kits. I have decontaminated a few times using Nitro’s guidelines. Even with this and good attention, I found a hot tub rash developing, and it did not go away no matter how attentive I was about daily measurement and water replacement. Often the Pool Calculator did not give me the results estimated, and I am not sure what the missing factors were. My spa also has an ozonator, but it’s difficult to be sure how well it is working... if at all! My eventual conclusion: the irritation was NOT due to bacterial buildup, but increasing chemical sensitivity. A friend recommended enzyme treatment and gave me a bottle of Clarity Spa. This did the trick. No more chemical rash, the water is clear without odor, feels very nice, and is economical. You too may be frustrated at having to become a “chem nerd” and also want to avoid chemicals which may well be absorbed in through your skin. Children are especially more sensitive and this may be a safety consideration for your family. I’ve put together an outline of the points I learned. I am not a paid shill, just a very satisfied consumer, and know others may share my concerns. This information compiled from talks with Cal Robinson, industrial engineer with over 20 years experience over a wide spectrum of water quality issues and solutions. Enzymes have been used for decades commercially to remove biofilms from large tanks holding potable water. Enzyme products were developed in 40’s to control excess algae or fungal growth in greenhouses; when hot tubs came along in 80’s they applied it here. Clarity compounds their own enzyme mix from large scale commercial producers of enzymes, according to what has been found to be most effective for spas. Enzymes are NOT “sanitizers” by the federal definition of “killing” bacteria. Enzymes DO work by eating the food in the water that bacteria live on. No food, bacteria die off. Eventually even hidden bacterial deposits disappear. For legal reasons vendors of enzymes cannot say that the enzymes “kill” or “eliminate” bacteria; instead we say “We help create an environment in which bacteria cannot survive.” To make a good transition it is wise to do a cleaning to get rid of hidden deposits and residues, particularly from bromine and Biguanides. If left these will defeat the enzymes and you will be dissatisfied. Thus Cal developed Crystal Clean pre-treatment. How long will a treatment last? Just as with sanitizers [chlorine, bromine] this depends on the number of “bather loads [bL].” More people using tub more times = more bather loads, and product is used up sooner. The advertised estimated usage is 40 bather loads per bottle. I as a single user, using tub daily for 15-30 minutes, am getting 60 BL or days out of one bottle of enzymes. I have kept the same water for 6 months and it is still crystal clear. See photos at http://cista.net/spa. This means I went through 3 bottles. Fresh water has been periodically added to top off as spa may go down 2” in a week to 2 weeks. A single bottle costs $24 + S&H = $35. Buy 4 and get free shipping. Thus this is costing me about $0.50 per day. You can read more at their product site: www.claritywaterproducts.com <>· Other items: if you have more bather loads, you can shock with non-chlorine oxidizer like MPS for water clarity. MPS will not damage the enzymes, but sensitive skin may not like it if you shock too much. Usage: ½ oz MPS. When using chlorine pH is advised to be between 7.2 – 7.8. However the water will feel better at 6.5 - 6.8 and the enzymes work just fine at this pH. Muriatic acid is cheap effective way to drop pH. Effectiveness requires a good circulation of the water so adjust filter cycles until you get the effect desired. I put my tub on Econo Mode to save on heating, but this let a film develop on the tub walls. It has a slimy feel but brushes off easily in the water. IMPORTANT NOTE: this is NOT a biofilm, but rather a mostly sodium mineral deposit from the water. Normally the minerals bond and will be caught in the filter. If there is slime build up it is due to lack of circulation. I am now increasing the amount of circulation per Cal’s instructions to prevent this. States with high sodium-calcium like Nevada have this phenomena. Depends on where you live. Tests will show that the total bacteria count is very low. You can get a single professional Millipore bacterial count kit online, e.g. at: http://www.apswater.com/shopexd.asp?id=5857&product=BS1001%20Bacteria%20Sampler%20Test%20Kit

I don't know if this is a result of "site update" but i cannot click into the Search box. The cursor will not appear. There is a floating add also that won't go away. Please, I don't need an estimate for a new spa!! (I found using advance Search gets around this) Also, periodically the page darkens with an add for a PDF which then has to be X'ed out. Same problem with Firefox 29 or Chrome. Anyone else? Please webmaster, clean this up. It's enough to make one go elsewhere.

Thanks for the info. Too late! I ordered two more Pleatco's from Amazon but they were only $15 each. Plus I splurged on what may prove a toy, a water comb to make it easier to get into the pleats http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00818KY0Y/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

according to help file there is simple and rich text, with toolbar icons to add smileys, links to videos,and images, etc. When I do a post such as this one I see no such tools, nor have I found options to turn them on. Are they disabled on this forum?

Ive got two Pleatco PRB35 spa filters. I inherited them but was told they were pretty new. What I see is that most the filter pleats stick together, like 8-12 in a bunch, which then alternate with some large open pleats. When examined most the tight pleats do not have dirt in them. I've meticulously sprayed out every pleat but I guess they'll never stand evenly open. What is the cause of this? Were they left too long without cleaning? I've ordered new filters; just want to avoid this "pleat clumping" on the new ones. http://cista.net/pix/filter.jpg

The Taylor book recommends using 1 drop of thiosulfate. I would start there first. I think that 5 drops might be too much. Add the drop of R-0007 before adding the R-0004, cap and invert to mix, wait a few seconds, and then add the R-0004. philalethes, you should also do an acid demand test to see what that indicates. 1. I have NO sanitizer yet. I have done no other balancing so far. 2. I compared my Taylor kit to a neighbor's reagent style kit and it matched my pH. Our water has high calcium from mountain spring so I will accept that the default pH is 8.0. This means the test strips whether new or not are crap. I have ordered refill sensor for my electric mini lab pH sensor and this should be accurate ?! 3. I did the acid demand test. Taylor kit took 4 drops to reduce pH to 7.4. 4. I used the Taylor manual: to reduce pH using 20 Baume muriatic acid for 400 gallons (I have 340) add 1.47 oz. I did this 8 hrs ago; my pH just tested is still purple in the 8+ range!!!! I remain befuddled.

Spa newbie here. I got Taylor K-2106 for going down the Bromine path 6 months ago. While in Ashland Or I had difficulty with pH reading. Fill container to 44 ml mark, add 5 drops R-0004 indicator. Cap, shake, and read. Right? It always showed my pH too high. How do I know? Because I tested it against 5 other sets of test strips, since I suspected it was off due to water feeling too acidic. I have some older pHydron test papers of various ranges: 5.5--8.0; vivid 3-9;Brilliant 0.0-6.0. I even went online and bought new wide spectrum from Edmund Scientific (1-14), and some 5.0-9.0 John Kyles No. 5090 from local drug store. Old or new they all agree so are viable. I even bought new indicator from local spa store for Taylor kit. Same reading. Now I have moved to east NV and get my water from our private springs. Time to set up the hot tub again. First test is the Taylor. It shows pH in the purplish range 8.0. BUT every pH strip and paper says the water is 6.0. Taylor may be the "cadillac" but something is seriously off. I don't trust it now. Has anyone else had similar problem? Here is Taylor results for my water before any treatment: pH 8.0 pH strips 6.0 total Alk 90 ppm Calc hard 90 ppm