LucyMarin

Cool, thanks for the clarity. I'll re-post once everything firms up.

The borate can be added at any time. Sodium bromide should always be added at startup for anyone using bromine. I really don't think that minerals (silver, copper and/or zinc) are a good choice. I think that the best choice for water maintenance is the dichlor/bleach method. The main benefit of bromine is that you can use bromine tabs in a feeder, so it is more convenient for some people. However, I think that the use of bromine tabs should be minimized because they add so much DMH (dimethylhydantoin) to the water. DMH might reduce the effectiveness of bromine over time as it accumulates in a similar way to how cyanuric acid reduces the effectiveness of chlorine. Although, this is not certain. People using bromine can add MPS or chlorine to regenerate bromine from the bromide in the water. Bromine from regeneration should make up the majority of the bromine and bromine from tabs should be kept to a minimum. Your current CSI is -0.12. Some people do need to go down to 40 ppm for their TA. A TA of 40 ppm is fine if the pH remains stable and the CSI is above -0.30. (Ideally, around -0.15 to -0.1.). I think that once you add the borate, you will probably be able to raise your TA to 50 ppm. It looks like the PH is finally stabilizing. Tubbed for 45 minutes last night and checked our readings this morning: Temp = 100 PH = 7.6 TA = 40 Ch = 170 BR = 1.5 I actually added a bit of calcium up to bring the CH to 200 and plan on trying to raise the TA to 50 once I am able to add borate (gentle spa). Will also reevaluate and finalize CH etc at that point. Quite excited to see the finish line in my balancing exercise. Thanks for the continued advice.

I haven't yet added the Borate, but will pick some up this weekend. Can it be added while the tub is already filled? Didn't use sodium bromide at start-up as the dealer said I didn't need this due to the in-line spa frog system. As I understand it, I can keep the bromine lower because of the mineral, however, it sounds like you're skeptical? At any rate, I checked my numbers again this morning and I now have a PH of right around 7.7 with a TA of 40 with CH and bromine still a constant 170 and 1.5 respectively. Does a low TA ever become a problem or is it acceptable if the water is balanced? Nitro says not to let TA slip below 50 due to instability issues? Thanks.

100 F. Using a 7.7 PH target and a 50 TA, the Taylor water balance calculator is telling me that my CH should be around 225 (at 7.6 PH, it's giving me a CH of closer to 275) for balanced water. Do you agree with this assessment? What's causing the PH to rise during the night? We just got out of the tub after a 45 minute soak and I tested PH again and it looks like it's still at 7.6, though tomorrow AM is another story. Don't get me wrong...I'm frustrated of course, but loving the tub and even finding the water chemistry to be interesting. I just want to nail it and improve with each subsequent fill

I'm struggling with the PH, but haven't given up yet. My latest readings are: PH 7.6 TA 50 CH 170 BR 1.5 I'm holding off on raising CH to around 250, pending what my PH does overnight after our evening soak. Each of the last few days it's been 8.0 by morning. I might have to hit it hard(er) with PH down if this again happens as my tub must really be aerating the water to cause such big PH increases. I'm worried too that the TA will get too low (i.e. in the sub-40). At any rate, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Hi All, I've read tons of posts around water balance/chemistry and even picked up the Taylor K2106. This in itself as been eye opening or, even, I dare say....Fun. At any rate, I'm obsessed over having the best water in Marin county. As for my tub, I have a 165 gallon tub with the spa frog mineral/bromine in-line system. Refilled on the 26th and thought I had the water nailed yesterday, but this morning (like yesterday morning) the PH has drifted up near 8.0. As of yesterday evening my water was perfectly balanced at 7.6, 90, 150 for PH, TA and CH respectively. OH, and my bromine was 1. In my obsession, I tested again late last night, and saw that my PH had risen up North of 7.8. I added more PH down and this morning my PH is near 8 with a TA of 80. I just again added some more PH down and am hoping this gets me down around 7.5 or 7.6 with an expected TA of 70. Is a 70 TA acceptable? Posts on this forum indicate it is, but Taylor/ANSI and other folks are saying that the TA should be 100-120 thought a minimum of 60 seems also to maybe be alright? If my results are as anticipated, I'll bump CH up to 175 to bring the water into balance. Any thoughts around this? I know that it's a fine balance to nail PH, but I see my TA as getting in the lower end, yet my PH continues to drift. My tub doesn't have a separate blower, but it does create a lot of bubbles when running. We're using it 1, sometimes 2 times a day for 30 minutes a pop. It's just my wife and I and we are squeaky clean when we get in. See also my refill and test history below. Is PH ever going to be my friend? Thanks in advance for your comments. p.s. The tub is new and we do absolutely love it. Can't believe it took us so long to get one Date Action PH TA CH 26-Feb Fill 7.6 100 150 27-Feb Test 7.9 90 140 27-Feb Add 1.25 tsp dn 2 tsp up 2 tsp up 27-Feb Retest 8 100 140 27-Feb Add 1.25 tsp dn 2 tsp up 27-Feb Retest 7.8 90 150 27-Feb Add 1.75 tsp dn 27-Feb Retest 7.6 90 150 27-Feb Retest 7.8 + 90 150 28-Feb Retest 8 80 28-Feb Add 1.5 tsp dn - - 28-Feb Retest TBD TBD TBD

Thanks, that was a pretty obvious solution! I drained 1/2 the tub and refilled...all is much better. Water is crystal clear too. thx

I have a new Marquis Spirit and mistakenly set my Spa Frog mineral cartridge to 2 and my bromine to 6 (i.e. was intended to be the other way around!). My bromine is now off the charts. Short of running the pump with the cover open (and time) is there any trick to lowering the bromine level? The tub is not useable until the bromine comes way down -- using test strips, the level was DARK purple, I guess way up in the 8++ range. At any rate, it is what it is, but I would love to hear thoughts about how best to pull this back into an acceptable range. If I just give the tub time to work itself out, how long might it take? It's a 165 gallon tub. Thanks much...

A quick thanks to all for the input received in this forum. We ran our electric and installed our new Marquis Spirit on Saturday and I have to say that it has so far exceeded all our expectations. Very happy with the purchase and looking forward to years of enjoyment. I'm sure my usage will moderate in time, but my twice daily soaks are keeping me happy for now. Still also getting the knack for managing the water chemistry....I think this is more an issue of becoming familiar with our own body chemistry and tub usage. We love our tub! p.s. Looking forward to some more rain and cooler temps too.....it was 70 here in Nor Cal on Sunday.

I'm very disappointed in our slab. It's not very level with a 3 inch swale (width wise, maybe 1/4 inch deep, give or take) running just off the left edge and a few other low (or high, depending on your perspective) spots throughout the slab. I expected it to be perfectly level, but such is not the case. My guess is that some of the concrete funneled out in some cracks in the stone below the ground or something of the like. My contractor is coming back out to look at it today. He made mention of adding some mortar something or other in the low spots. I'm going to ask him to pour another inch of concrete over the pad to even it out, though don't know how this will mesh with the original pad or if it will carry the strength of the slab below it. The low spots within the slab are probably ok, but the left edge is an issue certainly for potential drainage and maybe even for the integrity of the corner of the tub. It's less than a 1/2 inch, but deep enough for water to pool in the low spots. Annoyed with this spotty work....

I used type LA because it can be direct buried or stuck in concrete if needed (http://www.powercabling.com/flexconduit.htm) I think I got it from either Lowes or Home Depot. If I recall this is a fairly small pad, so I would just pour rather than getting a spa-pad, but that's just my thought. We poured a slab today and ran a bonding wire accordingly. Thanks for all the input.

Thanks much for your comments. Can I have the bonding wire come directly through the concrete? i.e. I don't think it needs a conduit?

My town follows the Uniform Swimming Pool, Spa and Hot Tub Code, 1997 edition, published by the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials. There's a copy at the building department and I'll take a look at it. That aside, you're basically telling me that it's a good idea to have a bonding wire installed for the obvious reasons. What if I was installing the tub directly on the ground or on pea gravel? Would a bonding wire then also be recommended or is this more related to my choice of installation? thx

So, we're moving forward on a small concrete slab for our Marquis Spirit. I've asked my contractor to install a bonding wire attached to the rebar, however, my electrician is telling me that this is not necessary. He says for a portable spa such as this the bonding wire is not really required as no metal parts of the spa are in contact with the concrete, rather it's encased in a plastic / synthetic case etc. The spa will of course be hooked up to a dedicated GFCI. At any rate, everything I read on-line seems to contradict what my electrician is telling me. There is no metal or any other water within 5 feet of the tub. The electrician has done hundreds of spa hook up's as this is is specialty and I do feel very comfortable with him, but am curious as to anyone's experience and/or comments on this matter. If I do have the contractor install a bonding wire, where should I have it leave the concrete? The slab is exactly the same size as the tub. Thanks in advance for your comments....

165 gallons = 1,377.75lbs (assuming 1 gallon = 8.35lbs) Approximate Marquis' website says: weight: dry/full 410/1786 lbs. Based on their empty weight of 410lbs, my estimate that 165 gallons is 1,377.75lbs I'd say they are spot on for filled weight. However, that weight does not appear to include the weight of people sitting in the spa. All said and done though, you're probably looking at 2,000 - 2,100 lbs once you put two adults in that spa. That means you're estimating 214 to 314 total pounds for 2 adults. Does that represent the majority of people walking in your showroom? Have you seen America's waistline? Have you seen the Biggest Loser? I'd estimate 300 to 500 lbs for 2 adults. We're leaning towards a slab....just feels like we should bite the bullet and do it "right" from the onset. Nice calculations on America's waistline too. Good think my Wife is 97lbs....together that brings us to closer to 270.....I guess we're the exception in this slim country of ours...