Hotsprings Sovereign - Temp Set To 102, Actual Temp Is 105 - Portable Hot Tubs & Spas - Pool and Spa Forum

Jump to content


(July 17, 2014) POOLSPAFORUM.COM SITE UPGRADE!


Photo
- - - - -

Hotsprings Sovereign - Temp Set To 102, Actual Temp Is 105


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#1 rihallix

rihallix

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 24 September 2010 - 06:30 PM

We just bought a Hot Springs Sovereign, we've had it ~3 weeks. If we set the temperature to 102F the actual temperature next day is 105F - way too hot. Where we live it has been in the 70s, so it is not the weather heating it up. We called the dealership (who seem to take a long time responding) who contacted the factory but haven't had any response in 2 weeks (despite being promised a response in a week).

The solution seems to be to set the temperature 3F under what you actually want - does this seem right for a top of the range spa which we payed $10k for?

Is anyone else experiencing the same issue with a HotSprings unit?

#2 ed3553

ed3553

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 04:04 AM

What are you getting the reading of 105 from? Is it a floating thermometer? It is possible for there to be a 1 degree difference due to calibration, however 3 degrees would be out of range.

#3 rihallix

rihallix

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:53 AM

It's on the Sovereign LCD screen display that's built into the spa. I'm not sure where the sensor is.

#4 ed3553

ed3553

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 25 September 2010 - 08:57 AM

It's on the Sovereign LCD screen display that's built into the spa. I'm not sure where the sensor is.


The sensor is mounted in the heater. It is a thermistor. You will need to have a Tech check it. There is a resistance value chart to test the thermistor. But if you have it set to 102 and it heats to 105 my guess would be a bad thermistor. But this needs to be tested to confirm that.

#5 rihallix

rihallix

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:29 AM

I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

Our spa arrived 3 weeks ago. We followed the instructions and set it to 102F, the next day it was 105F. We reported this to the HotSprings dealer - the owner said there's nothing he could do, the factory were not even being helpful.

With the situation continuing, after some persistence the local dealer sent a techie out to look at the tub. He confirmed the issue - and reported to the factory that with the temperature set to 101F, and the temperature in the spa at 101F the spa continued to heat. HotSprings dismissed the issue to their techie.

Perhaps it's just me, but when you spend near double the price on a spa I would expect that the temperature I set is the temperature of the spa (I recall a Jerry Seinfeld sketch about renting cars). I work in computers and if there's one thing I'd think to QA test if I were Hot Springs it would be the spa actually warms to the temperature that you set.

If HotSprings is able to truly be accountable and resolve the problem I will repost and vindicate them. Right now I am truly disappointed at a company charging a premium price that does not deliver on service. Calls to the dealer and the factory seem futile.

Rihallix

#6 ed3553

ed3553

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 11:33 AM

I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

Our spa arrived 3 weeks ago. We followed the instructions and set it to 102F, the next day it was 105F. We reported this to the HotSprings dealer - the owner said there's nothing he could do, the factory were not even being helpful.

With the situation continuing, after some persistence the local dealer sent a techie out to look at the tub. He confirmed the issue - and reported to the factory that with the temperature set to 101F, and the temperature in the spa at 101F the spa continued to heat. HotSprings dismissed the issue to their techie.

Perhaps it's just me, but when you spend near double the price on a spa I would expect that the temperature I set is the temperature of the spa (I recall a Jerry Seinfeld sketch about renting cars). I work in computers and if there's one thing I'd think to QA test if I were Hot Springs it would be the spa actually warms to the temperature that you set.

If HotSprings is able to truly be accountable and resolve the problem I will repost and vindicate them. Right now I am truly disappointed at a company charging a premium price that does not deliver on service. Calls to the dealer and the factory seem futile.

Rihallix


Sorry to hear that. This is not Hot Springs norm trust me. Did the tech check the resistance of the thermistor based off the actual water temp? Something is out of calibration the thermistor or in the actual IQ.

#7 rihallix

rihallix

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:09 PM

Sorry to hear that. This is not Hot Springs norm trust me. Did the tech check the resistance of the thermistor based off the actual water temp? Something is out of calibration the thermistor or in the actual IQ.


Don't know. He said there's no way of calibrating these new digital units - in the old days you could change a variable resistor, but now it's a self-contained computerized unit. I assume he knows his stuff, and he called the factory and spoke to a Hot Springs tech who could not offer anything more than dismissing the issue.

#8 Dan.The.Spa.Man

Dan.The.Spa.Man

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 694 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:14 PM

It's not HotSpring that's dropping the ball here, it's the dealer. If it were one of my customers I would be out within a day or two depending on how busy things are. And he doesn't know his stuff or he is just giving you a line of BS because there are still thermistors in the new models. It's either the thermistors or the control head needs to be changed.
I have a few extra HotSpring heater relay boards for tubs from 2001-2008 if anyone is looking for one cheap. Part #77119

#9 ed3553

ed3553

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 69 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 12:29 PM


Sorry to hear that. This is not Hot Springs norm trust me. Did the tech check the resistance of the thermistor based off the actual water temp? Something is out of calibration the thermistor or in the actual IQ.


Don't know. He said there's no way of calibrating these new digital units - in the old days you could change a variable resistor, but now it's a self-contained computerized unit. I assume he knows his stuff, and he called the factory and spoke to a Hot Springs tech who could not offer anything more than dismissing the issue.

I would request him come back. You be home and see for yourself what the resistance value is write it down. When he checks the temp of the water write that down post it here. There are many of us that can tell you if the thermistor value is correct compared to the water temp. Also let me know how he determines the water of your spa. I have to agree with the above poster here. He dont know his stuff.

At 101 Degrees those thermistors should have a resistance value of 5.2 - 6k Ohms anything different they need to be replaced.

#10 Sailing_Faith

Sailing_Faith

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 108 posts

Posted 08 October 2010 - 05:08 PM

I am sorry you are having trouble with Hot Spring. My experience with them is just the opposite. Even owning a second hand spa that is 16 years old (many spas are junk in 1/4 of that time).... I go in, the local dealer treats me like I am a friend. He will help me, happy to chat about the spa... no agenda (I thought I wanted to add an ozone system, and he talked me out of it).

Those rare times when something breaks, they really jump through hoops for me. My local dealer is making a nationwide search for the original thermostat I want.. they have the new replacement in stock, but are willing to go an look for the one I want.

Very good company. I would dearly love to buy a new spa from them, but this retired / disabled vet is just happy to have the hot water soak that makes my life so much more worth living.
Hot Springs 'Sovereign' tub
Inground pool, Polaris cleaner.
Pensacola, FL

#11 MWAZ

MWAZ

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 09 October 2010 - 08:34 PM

We have a new Vanguard with the same problem. The controller read 103 with the set point at 100 degrees. The dealer said this is a known problem but the factory does not have a fix for it. The dealer installed some additional insulation on the inside of the removable front access panel and said it would help. I don't understand why, but it did reduce the difference from three degrees to two degrees. Still, two degrees is too much of a difference on a $10K spa. Watkins needs to kick some engineering butt and offer a real fix. Plus or minus one degree is acceptable but no more than that. :angry:

#12 Jake the dog man

Jake the dog man

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 130 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 October 2010 - 04:24 PM

Hot tubs always are 3-5 degrees hotter. I keep mine (08 TR Sumatran) at 102 but it is actually 106. I have used many different thermometers, but I have found this in most tubs I have used & owned.

No big deal, maybe that is why there is no way to fix it.

#13 MWAZ

MWAZ

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:21 PM

I disagree. Its simply a matter of good controller design. I'm not talking about the temperature display vs a external independent thermometer. I would expect a difference there. But the internal thermistor sensor which is part of the controller's control system should match the set point within a degree in any well designed system. At the very least there should be an offset compensation adjustment to "calibrate" the circuit.

#14 DK117

DK117

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 363 posts

Posted 10 October 2010 - 06:40 PM

this is kind of obvious to post that you should have gotten a Strong Spa for half the price that keeps temps. I do wish you the best with your Hot Springs, but what happened in the "11th hour" to change your mind?

DK117
2009 CSXi80 Evolution by Strong

#15 Dan.The.Spa.Man

Dan.The.Spa.Man

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 694 posts

Posted 11 October 2010 - 02:51 AM

this is kind of obvious to post that you should have gotten a Strong Spa for half the price that keeps temps. I do wish you the best with your Hot Springs, but what happened in the "11th hour" to change your mind?

DK117



I've respectfully stayed out of the strong spas threads and here you are sticking your nose in here with nothing to offer but a dig on HotSpring. Well maybe if they bought a Strong Spa it could have been one of the 5 that I've cut up and thrown away from customers that bought new spas from me over the last couple of years.

HotSpring doesn't have a presence on this board because rather than get into ridiculous debates they have a 1-800 number to talk directly with them.


Rihallix, I recommend calling the 800 number listed in your owners manual. (I think it's 800 999-4688 but I haven't had to call in a while) Get in touch with customer service and tell them you are not happy with the problem you are having and haven't received any acceptable response from the dealer.
I have a few extra HotSpring heater relay boards for tubs from 2001-2008 if anyone is looking for one cheap. Part #77119

#16 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 October 2010 - 07:02 AM

I took delivery of a new VANGUARD this weekend! My tub ALSO was reading 104 - when I had it set at 102.

I thought it was just because of indian summer and the mid 70's temperture outside! Oh Boy!

#17 Spa_Guru

Spa_Guru

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 946 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 11 October 2010 - 04:47 PM

I am sorry you are having trouble with Hot Spring. My experience with them is just the opposite. Even owning a second hand spa that is 16 years old (many spas are junk in 1/4 of that time).... I go in, the local dealer treats me like I am a friend. He will help me, happy to chat about the spa... no agenda (I thought I wanted to add an ozone system, and he talked me out of it).

Those rare times when something breaks, they really jump through hoops for me. My local dealer is making a nationwide search for the original thermostat I want.. they have the new replacement in stock, but are willing to go an look for the one I want.

Very good company. I would dearly love to buy a new spa from them, but this retired / disabled vet is just happy to have the hot water soak that makes my life so much more worth living.



A 16 year old Hot Springs is a better tub than the new Hot Springs. Anyone who has done spa tech work for HS can tell you the older stuff is bulletproof.

Manufacturing proprietary components to chase water in circles leads to new problems, and obviously these problems haven't been worked out.

"Men nearly always believe what they wish to be true"

Julius Caesar

"Having the best price, the best service, and the best quality all at once is impossible"

Zig Ziglar


#18 teafreak35

teafreak35

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted 11 October 2010 - 05:38 PM



Sorry to hear that. This is not Hot Springs norm trust me. Did the tech check the resistance of the thermistor based off the actual water temp? Something is out of calibration the thermistor or in the actual IQ.


Don't know. He said there's no way of calibrating these new digital units - in the old days you could change a variable resistor, but now it's a self-contained computerized unit. I assume he knows his stuff, and he called the factory and spoke to a Hot Springs tech who could not offer anything more than dismissing the issue.

I would request him come back. You be home and see for yourself what the resistance value is write it down. When he checks the temp of the water write that down post it here. There are many of us that can tell you if the thermistor value is correct compared to the water temp. Also let me know how he determines the water of your spa. I have to agree with the above poster here. He dont know his stuff.

At 101 Degrees those thermistors should have a resistance value of 5.2 - 6k Ohms anything different they need to be replaced.


Not trying to but in here, but I have a hotsprings spa with a high limit thermistor resistance of 8.4 ohms at 82 degrees. Is that normal?

#19 Dan.The.Spa.Man

Dan.The.Spa.Man

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 694 posts

Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:18 PM


I am sorry you are having trouble with Hot Spring. My experience with them is just the opposite. Even owning a second hand spa that is 16 years old (many spas are junk in 1/4 of that time).... I go in, the local dealer treats me like I am a friend. He will help me, happy to chat about the spa... no agenda (I thought I wanted to add an ozone system, and he talked me out of it).

Those rare times when something breaks, they really jump through hoops for me. My local dealer is making a nationwide search for the original thermostat I want.. they have the new replacement in stock, but are willing to go an look for the one I want.

Very good company. I would dearly love to buy a new spa from them, but this retired / disabled vet is just happy to have the hot water soak that makes my life so much more worth living.



A 16 year old Hot Springs is a better tub than the new Hot Springs. Anyone who has done spa tech work for HS can tell you the older stuff is bulletproof.

Manufacturing proprietary components to chase water in circles leads to new problems, and obviously these problems haven't been worked out.


Same thing with a 16 year old mustang, ford f-150, corvette, dodge charger, etc. With technology comes new obstacles. Are the jets and lights and features as plentiful and enjoyable on a 16 year old HotSpring vs a 2010 model?

I just retired my 1993 Prodigy. It was great, but I enjoy a 2010 Envoy much more.
I have a few extra HotSpring heater relay boards for tubs from 2001-2008 if anyone is looking for one cheap. Part #77119

#20 rihallix

rihallix

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 11 October 2010 - 06:49 PM

Right now the set temperature is 100F and the actual reported 102F - this has been fairly consistent for several days.

Frankly I don't have time to chase up. I've already called the dealer multiple times, they sent someone out. I'm disappointed with the customer service, I don't want to continue playing games and telephone tag hence my post here.

#21 Hotsprung

Hotsprung

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 11 October 2010 - 11:23 PM

It might not help much, but I have a 2010 HS Sovereign and being in the UK run mine in Degrees C rather than F.

My dealer and install tech has suggested I too can expect the water to be within 1c of the temperature set. Given that there are more degree F's in a degree C, my perception is that 100F against a a setting of 102F is within the tolerence I would expect.

#22 halfshell

halfshell

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Posted 13 October 2010 - 06:27 AM

Just FYI - My 2006 Nordic Crown XL maintains the set temp perfectly. I've checked and double checked the water temp with several different thermometers it's always exactly what the digital display on the tub reads.

I wouldn't be too happy with a 2-3 degree F difference between the set temp/digital readout and the actual water temp.

#23 Theojt

Theojt

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 14 October 2010 - 05:33 AM

Same experience here with a 2010 Grandee. Had it running for about a month set at 101 and it read exactly 101 all the time. Then I had a repair call for which I had to drain/refill and now the temp reads exactly 2 degrees higher than set temp. Thermistor was replaced but no change in behavior. I have verified the water temp matches the displayed temp with a good (human) thermometer - both are exactly 101, though my set temp is 99. The Service Manager from the dealer followed up with HS, who explained that "this is normal".

It's odd, especially after it seemed so accurate with the first fill but it doesn't seem to be anything to lose sleep over though.

Jeff

#24 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 14 October 2010 - 07:26 AM

Yesterday morning, I called the Hot Spring toll free number that 'Dan The Spa Man' supplied us. I informed the lady in service of the issue and that it appears as though many others are also experiencing this issue. She stated she was not aware of this issue and wanted to talked with her supervisor. She would get back with me ASAP!

I still have not hear back! I sure hope they do not try to cover up an issue that they are well aware of! I would hope they tell customers that are aware of issue and a fix is in the works!

I will be plenty upset if my tub is off 2 degrees for the life of the tub! Unacceptable on a $10K product

When I am happy with a product - I am very vocal!
When I dissatified with a product - I am more vocal!

Hopefully I get a call today! Stand by!

#25 Theojt

Theojt

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 09:33 AM

Yesterday morning, I called the Hot Spring toll free number that 'Dan The Spa Man' supplied us. I informed the lady in service of the issue and that it appears as though many others are also experiencing this issue. She stated she was not aware of this issue and wanted to talked with her supervisor. She would get back with me ASAP!

I still have not hear back! I sure hope they do not try to cover up an issue that they are well aware of! I would hope they tell customers that are aware of issue and a fix is in the works!

I will be plenty upset if my tub is off 2 degrees for the life of the tub! Unacceptable on a $10K product

When I am happy with a product - I am very vocal!
When I dissatified with a product - I am more vocal!

Hopefully I get a call today! Stand by!



Did you ever hear back from HotSprings?

#26 JerimiahR

JerimiahR

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 495 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:08 AM

I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).


Keep in mind, manufacturer's don't have a responsibility to monitor posts on internet forums. So it's hard for them to respond unless they even know you're having an issue. If you don't contact them directly, they won't contact you directly. If your dealer contacts them, they will respond to your dealer directly.

Working with Watkins (Hot Spring) myself, I can tell you they make a very solid product. Though I too have seen water temperatures above the "set temp" myself, I don't believe it's necessarily a problem with the thermistor (thermostat sensor). One of the things that makes Hot Spring Spas so reliable long term, and so efficient, is their dedicated circulation pump.

This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside. The thermostat in the hot tub cannot create cooling. It can only turn the heater ON when needed. So in a situation where the air outside is not causing temperature loss, and this extremely efficient pump is releasing heat into the water, it could be expected to see temperatures rise a little. And, because these spas are so well insulated, the heat is not lost as quickly as other spas, which means it's more easily heated. So, warm outdoor temps, very little heat loss, and an efficient pump adding small amounts of heat could cause a rise in temp.

If you have not had your complaint resolved, I would recommend you contact Watkins (Hot Spring) directly before passing judgment on them directly. See if they can help you out. I've always had very good experience with their support staff, and have heard the same from my customers.

Temperature inconsistency aside, there are many other reasons why the Hot Spring Spa was a better choice compared with Strong. Don't blame yourself for making the wrong choice just yet. :)

Jerimiah Reece
Mountain Hot Tub

#27 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:43 AM

If you also are having this problem (as I, the other night my temp was set at 101 but my read was 105 - too hot for the kids to even get in). I recommend you call Watkins!

I called - They Listened - They Resolved!
Part being delivery to my dealer as we speak!
Should be fixed within 2 weeks!

Life is good again - Stay thirsty my friends!

#28 MWAZ

MWAZ

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 11:56 AM

If you also are having this problem (as I, the other night my temp was set at 101 but my read was 105 - too hot for the kids to even get in). I recommend you call Watkins!

I called - They Listened - They Resolved!
Part being delivery to my dealer as we speak!
Should be fixed within 2 weeks!

Life is good again - Stay thirsty my friends!



So tell us. What is the part they are sending you?

#29 spawn

spawn

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 485 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:08 PM


I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside. The thermostat in the hot tub cannot create cooling. It can only turn the heater ON when needed. So in a situation where the air outside is not causing temperature loss, and this extremely efficient pump is releasing heat into the water, it could be expected to see temperatures rise a little. And, because these spas are so well insulated, the heat is not lost as quickly as other spas, which means it's more easily heated. So, warm outdoor temps, very little heat loss, and an efficient pump adding small amounts of heat could cause a rise in temp.

Actually I would say that a pump that transfers 85% of its energy into heating the water is extremely inefficient. The purpose of the pump is to move water. You can try to explain this issue as a positive (extremely efficent pump and spas that don't loose heat as quickly as other spas), but as a consumer, I would just like to set the temp at a desired setting and have the water at that temp when I get in, rather than turn it down a couple of degrees in the summer or some other work around.

Glad to hear that Tubber got Hot Springs' attention and that they will try to take care of this for him - I hope they take care of the others with this problem too.

I thought one of the Hot Springs guys was suggesting that tubs with the ACE systems should not have a circ pump - any truth to that?

DK117 - although your post was pretty negative for the OP, I am have seen all the flac you guys get / got that bought tubs at Costoc.

#30 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:23 PM

Not 100% - but I think they may be replacing my entire control panel!

I can update everyone after the service call!

As someone else mentioned in an earlier post! When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!

#31 dark rider

dark rider

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 12:29 PM

No, even the ACE tubs have a circ pump. It's the ozonator that is disconnected when the ACE is installed. I've had my Grandee 3 days now, and love the tub, but mine may also be running hotter than what it's set at. It was 2F hotter than the setting I had it programmed for last night when the family went to take a dip. Still within the acceptable range, but a bit hotter than I would have liked. I dialed it back a couple of degrees, and plan to keep a watch on it. If it is consistent, it may not be a problem. But if it cannot be accurately controlled, I will be calling HotSpring as well.

#32 Theojt

Theojt

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:19 PM

Not 100% - but I think they may be replacing my entire control panel!

I can update everyone after the service call!

As someone else mentioned in an earlier post! When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!


I think that's normal - its the heater return. Ours is usually hot there too.

I just spoke to Watkins, they will look into it. I should have gotten his name (my bad). He did not seem to know about the problem, or the fix. He took my name and number, and my dealers name and said someone would get back to me. I mentioned this forum/post to him also.

#33 spatech (the unreal one)

spatech (the unreal one)

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,818 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:23 PM

When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!


That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.

#34 dark rider

dark rider

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:45 PM




When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!


That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.


spatech, once the thermostat trips the set temp, should the return continue to circulate the very hot water into the tub to maintain the current temp or does it either dial back or shut off? I read the "always" comment in Tubber's response to mean that it continues even after it has reached the set temp. This may be normal though, since it takes continuous hot water to maintain hot water, and you may not be able to feel a slight variation of what is coming out of the outlet with your foot.

#35 spatech (the unreal one)

spatech (the unreal one)

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,818 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 01:57 PM





When I am in my tub - it seems like very very very hot water is always coming thru the bottom of the tub - almost to the point where it is too hot and you can not keep you foot over this area! Thinking this should fix this issue also!

Stay Thirsty!


That is normal; that water has to be that hot to mainitan the temp in the 400 gallon spa.


spatech, once the thermostat trips the set temp, should the return continue to circulate the very hot water into the tub to maintain the current temp or does it either dial back or shut off? I read the "always" comment in Tubber's response to mean that it continues even after it has reached the set temp. This may be normal though, since it takes continuous hot water to maintain hot water, and you may not be able to feel a slight variation of what is coming out of the outlet with your foot.


It will cycle as your heater turns on/off to maintain temp. For instance if its coming out really hot you could turn to your controls and lower the set point temp so that no heat is needed (to something like 95º for instance). That would tell the controller to turn off the heater and in the matter of a few seconds the very hot water should reduce to the same temp as the rest of the spa water (it won't really be instantaneous as the heater core is VERY hot and will need to dissipate that heat).

If it seems like its always hot that means that when you're in the spa the heater is pretty much always on trying to keep your spa up to temp so it depends on what temp you have it set to, how cold it is outside, whether you are running the main jet pumps (which obviously cools the water down quicker just like stirring a cup of coffee cools it down), etc.

#36 Mikey_in_NY

Mikey_in_NY

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 298 posts

Posted 22 October 2010 - 02:56 PM

This pump was changed over the last couple years. These days, this pump is extremely efficient. To the point that I've heard information suggesting that it releases 85% of the energy (electricity) usage as heat into the water that passes through it. This ultimately means it's adding a small amount of heat into the water continuously. So this can contribute to water temperatures increases when it's fairly warm outside.



As another poster said this would indicate the pump is very inefficient. The pump is there to pump water around - not to heat the water. A small amount of heat by-product is inevitable under the laws of physics, but an efficient water pump will barely even get warm, and there's no way a little 50 watt (or thereabout) circ pump will generate enough heat to raise the temperature of hundreds of gallons of water.


That being said Hotspring are a great tub.

#37 dark rider

dark rider

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 127 posts

Posted 23 October 2010 - 05:18 PM

I dialed the heat back to 99F and the water felt perfect this evening for a longer soak with the family. It was 101F when we first lifted the cover and got in, but quickly dropped to 99F with the jets on and held there consistent the whole time we were in the water (about 45-50 mins. total with cool downs). I think mine is functioning normally.

#38 n1oty

n1oty

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 471 posts

Posted 24 October 2010 - 03:19 PM

All of you folks that are exhibiting temps that are approximately 2 degrees above set point should try one, simple test. Take something soft that will allow you to prop the cover open about an inch or so, run it for a day and see if the temp runs at set point. If it does, there is nothing wrong with the electronics. If the temps are still skewed a couple of degrees, you have an electronics issue (either sensors and/or controller). I do repair work for two HS dealers and a Caldera dealer, so I see a lot of these tubs. They are so well insulated that they tend to overheat during the warmer weather with the cover in place. The controller logic will sense the over-temp condition and trigger "summer logic", thereby limiting how far it will exceed set point.

The heater is actually being disengaged when the tub reaches set point, but heat is still generated by the electrical use of motors and the friction of the water flowing through the pipes.

John

#39 spawn

spawn

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 485 posts

Posted 25 October 2010 - 09:55 AM

Call me fussy, but in my opinion when you set the tub temperature, that is what the temp should be regardless of time of year and I don't see this as a difficult goal to achieve. Somehow other tub manufacturers have been able to engineer energy efficient tubs to do so. Sounds like Hot Springs has figured out the problem and is taking care of it. I am sure McGee will report back that with the new control panel, the problem has been solved.

#40 Theojt

Theojt

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 26 October 2010 - 05:38 AM

Call me fussy, but in my opinion when you set the tub temperature, that is what the temp should be regardless of time of year and I don't see this as a difficult goal to achieve. Somehow other tub manufacturers have been able to engineer energy efficient tubs to do so. Sounds like Hot Springs has figured out the problem and is taking care of it. I am sure McGee will report back that with the new control panel, the problem has been solved.


I'm anxious to hear the update. I am starting to notice a pattern - it seems to definitely vary with ambient temperature. During the late summer (new install), it was dead on. Then we had a cold spell and I noticed a 2, sometimes 3 degree variance. Last weekend when the temperature was back in the mid-70's, it read okay again. Today it's in the upper 50's and I see a 1 degree temperature difference.

So in rough terms of ambient temps (I'm guessing at the exact thresholds):

- 70 or higher = same
- 58-69 = 1 degree difference
- 48-55 = 2 degrees difference

I wonder if the trend will continue and the delta will grow larger as the weather continues getting colder - that would be bad.
Something to watch. I'd be interested if others have noticed a similar pattern.

#41 txpita

txpita

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 02 November 2010 - 11:23 AM

I am really disappointed with Hot Springs! We decided not to buy a Costco (Strong) Spa at the 11th hour because we *thought* Hot Springs would have better customer service. We were very wrong. I am impressed by the presence of Strong on this forum - but don't seem to see much presence from HotSprings (pls treat this as your wake up call Watkins!).

Our spa arrived 3 weeks ago. We followed the instructions and set it to 102F, the next day it was 105F. We reported this to the HotSprings dealer - the owner said there's nothing he could do, the factory were not even being helpful.

With the situation continuing, after some persistence the local dealer sent a techie out to look at the tub. He confirmed the issue - and reported to the factory that with the temperature set to 101F, and the temperature in the spa at 101F the spa continued to heat. HotSprings dismissed the issue to their techie.

Perhaps it's just me, but when you spend near double the price on a spa I would expect that the temperature I set is the temperature of the spa (I recall a Jerry Seinfeld sketch about renting cars). I work in computers and if there's one thing I'd think to QA test if I were Hot Springs it would be the spa actually warms to the temperature that you set.

If HotSprings is able to truly be accountable and resolve the problem I will repost and vindicate them. Right now I am truly disappointed at a company charging a premium price that does not deliver on service. Calls to the dealer and the factory seem futile.

Rihallix



#42 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 November 2010 - 08:08 AM

UPDATE: Temp issue on new Hot Springs

I just got off the phone with Watkins to make sure I was all set to have my new CONTROL HEAD installed this weekend. My rep was not aware of the issue so she checked with her manager. She informed me that my part is on the way and Watkins is aware of this issue. They have - or are in the process of fixing this issue, so new tubs should not have an issue.

So, if you have a new Hot Springs with temp issues - call your dealer and/or Watkins. My dealer actually had no clue about this issue until I brought it to their attention - so Watkins may be your best bet to start.

I will update everyone after the part is installed this weekend. I will talk with the service rep and fill you in!

Stay thirsty!

#43 spawn

spawn

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 485 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 09:09 AM

Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.

#44 rsc92

rsc92

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 10:47 AM

Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.



I may be having the temperature problem with my Vanguard which was installed on 10/29. Set temp is 99, but actual temp is 102. Green light is off. Called my dealer and he had no clue and was dismissive of the problem. Spoke to CSR at Watkins who said it may very well be a problem that needs repair. She suggested I wait and see if the temp continues to creep up. I will keep you all posted.

#45 Razorhog

Razorhog

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 115 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 11:14 AM

I'm having the same issue with my Jacuzzi J-280. Set temp is 2-3 degrees below water temp. I have not tested with a thermometer yet. I haven't had the tub long enough (installed on 10-27-2010) to determine is the temperature variance is affected by ambient air temperature. Baffles me how the water in the tub is hotter than the set temp. Is there a thermometer somewhere else besides the heater?

#46 Tubber McGee

Tubber McGee

    Spa Savant

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 158 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:38 PM

rsc92 - per Watkins - they know they have an issue! Your problem will not go away - so waiting as they suggested is a waste. Call customer service back and get this fixed. Some of the reps may not know about this issue = you may need to speak to a customer service manager.

When I called my dealer - they also did not know if the issue! They also informed me that I should always call them first! Kinda ironic because I (the customer) was the one who brought this issue to you (the dealer)!
If I would have called you first - I probably would have gotten the run around as others on this forum have rec'd.

Hog - not sure what the deal is with Jacuzzi - but you having the same issue! I would call your dealer before it gets worse! I actaully had one night where the temp was set at 101 or 102 and it was reading 105! I wouldn't let the kids in! Too hot!

Good luck!

#47 Theojt

Theojt

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:50 PM

rsc92 - per Watkins - they know they have an issue! Your problem will not go away - so waiting as they suggested is a waste. Call customer service back and get this fixed. Some of the reps may not know about this issue = you may need to speak to a customer service manager.

When I called my dealer - they also did not know if the issue! They also informed me that I should always call them first! Kinda ironic because I (the customer) was the one who brought this issue to you (the dealer)!
If I would have called you first - I probably would have gotten the run around as others on this forum have rec'd.

Hog - not sure what the deal is with Jacuzzi - but you having the same issue! I would call your dealer before it gets worse! I actaully had one night where the temp was set at 101 or 102 and it was reading 105! I wouldn't let the kids in! Too hot!

Good luck!



Did they happen ot give you a Tech Bulletin number or any reference like that?

#48 rsc92

rsc92

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 01:54 PM

Tubber - What part exactly is it that they are changing? When is your service call scheduled? The tech person at my dealer was fairly insistent that I did not have a problem. All i can say is that the green light has not been on the tub all day. First full day we have had this problem. Seems to me that the control panel should have an adjustment for this sort of thing. Honestly seems very odd that it doesn't.

#49 Dan.The.Spa.Man

Dan.The.Spa.Man

    Spa Guru

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 694 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 02:57 PM

It's not HotSpring that's dropping the ball here, it's the dealer. If it were one of my customers I would be out within a day or two depending on how busy things are. And he doesn't know his stuff or he is just giving you a line of BS because there are still thermistors in the new models. It's either the thermistors or the control head needs to be changed.


I knew of the problem! Lol.

The thing about Watkins is that if something is made wrong and problems devolop it will get fixed. It is not always done immediately because they want to test the newly made part for a period of time so that the same thing or some different problem doesn't occur.
I have a few extra HotSpring heater relay boards for tubs from 2001-2008 if anyone is looking for one cheap. Part #77119

#50 n1oty

n1oty

    Hot Tub Aficionado

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 471 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 04:53 PM


Tubber - Glad to hear that Hot Springs is taking care of you - they are a reputable established company. The fix will keep you from playing guessing games with your tub temp. While having the tub at a different temp is an annoyance and inconveince for adults, it can be very dangerous if young children will be using the tub.



I may be having the temperature problem with my Vanguard which was installed on 10/29. Set temp is 99, but actual temp is 102. Green light is off. Called my dealer and he had no clue and was dismissive of the problem. Spoke to CSR at Watkins who said it may very well be a problem that needs repair. She suggested I wait and see if the temp continues to creep up. I will keep you all posted.



Check to see if the 24 hour circ pump is also turned off when this temp spike occurs. If it is, it sounds like summer logic.

John




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

website security