Stain Stumper - Help!

[iteach]

I have a vinyl lined inground pool with white fiberglass steps. Problem.....A few weeks ago I discovered spray-like speckled spots all over the stairs and on the bottom of the liner on the left hand side of the shallow end. I have tried everything (Jack's Magic stain identification - nothing, Jack's Magic stair stuff - nothing, vitamin C tabs - nothing, stain crystals in a sock - nothing, RMS stain remover - nothing, magic eraser - nothing) The stains are not even lightening up! The stains on the stairs will lighten up when scratched with the tip of a knife, but there are hundreds of small speckles. The pool companies are out of ideas. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do or try? Or maybe what my next steps should be? Any bit of help would be greatly appreciated......Thanks!

[iteach]

....forgot to mention the stains are orangish/brown and rust-like in color, but again the stain identification brought up nothing.

[quantumchromodynamics]

What chemicals do you use, and how do you add them?

List all chemicals you have used prior to the stains' appearance.

Also, list all of your chemical readings. Chlorine, pH, TA, Calcium, Cyanuric, Salt, iron, copper and Temperature.

Do you have a salt-water chlorine generator?

[iteach]

Thanks for your response....

It is a salt water chlorine generator (added last October with sand change...used baquacil previously)

I have used the same chemicals since with no changes....they are:

USA brand muratic acid

Regal brand alkalinity, calcium, etc.

Aqua Salt brand salt

All chemicals are added directly to the water....water is tested weekly through a computer analysis system.

Reading:

Chlorine - 3

PH - 7.4

Alkalinity - 70

Calcium - 230

Salt - 2800 (little low, but good when stains first appeared 2 weeks ago)

Iron - 0

Copper - 0

Temperature - 87

[quantumchromodynamics]

I think that the stain pattern might be able to help us figure this out. You say

spray-like speckled spots all over the stairs and on the bottom of the liner on the left hand side of the shallow end.

I am thinking that this could be one of three things:

1) A stain caused by some chemical that was broadcast and then settled on the floor.

2) A stain caused by something coming out of the returns,

3) A stain caused by organics, like from a tree,

Does one of these possibilities seem to fit the pattern? Is the stain pattern below the returns? Even though you water does not show any iron according to the test, I'm thinking that this could be iron that has been oxidized by the salt cell and then it falls to the floor as it exits the returns. Try putting ascorbic acid on the stains again to see if that has any effect.

If the stains are organic, then they should go away on their own after a few days with sufficient chlorine.

[iteach]

I think that the stain pattern might be able to help us figure this out. You say

spray-like speckled spots all over the stairs and on the bottom of the liner on the left hand side of the shallow end.

I am thinking that this could be one of three things:

1) A stain caused by some chemical that was broadcast and then settled on the floor.

2) A stain caused by something coming out of the returns,

3) A stain caused by organics, like from a tree,

Does one of these possibilities seem to fit the pattern? Is the stain pattern below the returns? Even though you water does not show any iron according to the test, I'm thinking that this could be iron that has been oxidized by the salt cell and then it falls to the floor as it exits the returns. Try putting ascorbic acid on the stains again to see if that has any effect.

If the stains are organic, then they should go away on their own after a few days with sufficient chlorine.

[iteach]

It could have been something that came out of the returns....there are two returns on the steps. However, the stains on the liner are directly accross, but on the opposite end of the pool from the shallow end return; there is nothing directly under the shallow end return and nothing in the deep end of the pool at all by that return. A couple of weeks ago when I noticed the stains it was right around the time my original pump and motor went bad and a new one was installed. Could that have something to do with it? I am just stumped that nothing has worked. I have tried all kind of asorbic acids (vitamin c tabs, lemons, metal stain removers with vitamin C and Jack's stuff) thinking it was an iron stain, but the stains have not even lightened up. Do you have any suggestions of any products that might do the trick? Thanks so much for your help!

I have tried things to take out organic stains as well, but kind of ruled that out due to the fact that there are no trees or leaves anywhere in the vicinity of the pool. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

[quantumchromodynamics]

Try putting some ascorbic acid in a sock and placing it on a stained area for a while. The sock will help hold a concentrated amount of the ascorbic acid on the stain.

Can you post a picture of the stains?

[iteach]

Tried muratic acid, Vitamin C tabs in a sock, and Jack's Magic Stain ID kit again....no luck! The guy from Jacks Magic thought it might be some sort of scale covering the stain which is why the products aren't working, but the ID kit did not pick that up. I put some muratic acid and Jacks Magic purple stuff and he said to keep using that. Does this sound right or does anyone have any other thoughts or ideas. Thanks quantumchromodynamics for your help! I have a couple of pics, but I am not quite sure how to insert them in the post.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Get some actual ascorbic acid, and try that. Sometimes vitamin C tabs do not work.

Ascorbic acid

Ascorbic acid

You can post a picture at photobucket for free and then put the link in your post.