Cloudy Water

[aksnowgod]

I have been lurking and reading through this forum for several months, and switched to Nitro's Dichlor/bleach method sometime back in January.

Thank you everyone for all of the information you have created on this site. Since switching to Dichlor/bleach method, maintaining the Spa has never been easier... I have a 310 gallon Limelight Flair with Ozonator.

The only issue I have is keeping the water from turning cloudy when the jets are on, even more so if the air jets are open. (the condition clears within a minute or so after jets are turned off) This seems to start at about the 3 week mark and slowly gets worse. The normal soaker load is one person every day to 2 days for 30 min, and the occasional 2 person soak for 30 minutes maybe once to twice a week. I am not sure if this is higher usage than some, but I think this is about the norm.

I try to keep my FC no lower than 3 PPM, and the CC never seems to go above 0.3-0.5, if it does I tend to shock to 13 or whatever the poolcalculator.com recommends.

Current levels are:

Temp = 101

FC = 7.32 (shocked to 13 48 hours ago)

TC = 7.64

PH = 7.7

TA = 64

CH = 117

ProTeam Gentle Spa = 50 PPM (by calculation)

I was in the dealer today and brought up TDS and discussing the water getting cloudy with the jets on and they said my TA was too low... (I did not tell them about the dichlor/bleach method or borates... didnt want to go down that road, especially since I still have a warranty on the spa)

Now I know following the Dichlor/Bleach method it is recommended to keep the TA low to help balance the PH/keep the PH from jumping too high with the bleach add.

My question is what can I expect to happen if I bring my TA up, and is bringing the TA up even going to help fight the cloudy water? I dont think the cloudy water is due to TDS after only 3 or 4 weeks, or is it? I do not have a TDS test kit to measure to know.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[waterbear]

If your water is getting cloudy when the jets are on AND even more cloudy when the aerators are open, AND you have an ozonator AND the condition clears about a minute after you turn the jets off I am going to make the educated guess that the 'cloudiness' you are seeing are tiny bubbles in the water from your ozonator. It is NOT uncommon. In fact the aerators themselves can cause this to happen also.

There could also be a suction side leak somewhere in your system causing it to draw in air. (I am assuming that this effect is not isolated to just one jet or just one side of the tub but is happing at all jets) I would disable the ozonator and turn off the aerators and see if it still occurs (assuming this did not occur before and is a new problem), IF it does look for the leak that is sucking air on the suction side of the plumbing (after the drains and befoe the pump).

[chem geek]

waterbear,

We know that a higher CH can help reduce foaming -- do you think that might also help reduce cloudiness from aeration? If so, then raising the CH to 150 ppm might be worth a try. Since the problem gets worse over time, I suspect some form of surfactants in the water, possibly from soapy swimsuits, that are building up from continued usage. Better rinsing of such suits (or of soap on the skin if that's the problem) might help.

Richard

[waterbear]

waterbear,

We know that a higher CH can help reduce foaming -- do you think that might also help reduce cloudiness from aeration? If so, then raising the CH to 150 ppm might be worth a try. Since the problem gets worse over time, I suspect some form of surfactants in the water, possibly from soapy swimsuits, that are building up from continued usage. Better rinsing of such suits (or of soap on the skin if that's the problem) might help.

Richard

worth a try

[aksnowgod]

waterbear,

We know that a higher CH can help reduce foaming -- do you think that might also help reduce cloudiness from aeration? If so, then raising the CH to 150 ppm might be worth a try. Since the problem gets worse over time, I suspect some form of surfactants in the water, possibly from soapy swimsuits, that are building up from continued usage. Better rinsing of such suits (or of soap on the skin if that's the problem) might help.

Richard

Thanks for the replies...

During the last fill I did try to bring the CH up higher, but it really didnt make any difference, or at least didnt seem to.

I have been thinking of disconnecting the Ozonator, although at the same time any extra cleaning it offers is a plus if you ask me. I have read some of Chem Geek's (Richard) posts on how the ozone eats up the chlorine as well, but I havent really noticed that with my Spa, my chlorine demand seems to stay low/constant, not that I have really measured the CD. I keep a spreadsheet of each fill and my measurements and what I have added over the fill when it comes to modifying PH or TA, etc...

It is mostly just my partner and I that use the spa, and are suits just get hung up to dry until next use, they get washed rarely... I think thats a good thing, maybe not? We rinse off before and after using the spa as well.

Do you think there is any wizdom to the Spa shops saying I should raise the TA up to 120-130? I would think that would make the PH impossible to manage?

[waterbear]

Do you think there is any wizdom to the Spa shops saying I should raise the TA up to 120-130? I would think that would make the PH impossible to manage?

Would have no effect on the cloudiness, which sound like tiny bubbles. It's either the ozone or a suction side leak. it's NOT a chemical problem.

[chem geek]

I have read some of Chem Geek's (Richard) posts on how the ozone eats up the chlorine as well, but I havent really noticed that with my Spa, my chlorine demand seems to stay low/constant, not that I have really measured the CD.

Though ozone oxidizes some chlorine to chlorate, it also oxidizes some of your bather waste. When one is using the spa daily a you are doing, the ozone probably cuts down your chlorine demand possibly by up to half. It's only when you aren't using the spa that the chlorine demand is higher with an ozonator than without, so only when soaking once a week for example.