Spa Electrical Install

[montey]

Im trying to hook up an outdoor spa to my main service panel, separated by a poured concrete wall/foundation. The disconnect box will be mounted to the outside surface of this wall. I drilled a 1" hole in the back of this disconnect box to receive the wire from the main power supply.

I have 2 questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Montey

1) Im using 6/3 Romex running from the main panel to the concrete wall. Im using a 3/4" drill to drill through the 12in concrete wall. The 6/3 romex will exit the home and go directly into the box. What do I have to do to protect the 6/3 romex going into the back of the box? Just about 1/4 in will be exposed from the wall to the disconnect box.

2) When Im running 6/3 romex in the basement inside my home, I staple the cable to the middle of the running joists, but when I have to cross over a joist, must I drill a through hole in the joist to get to the next joist or can I simply staple the cable to the bottom of the joist?

[Matthew B]

Im trying to hook up an outdoor spa to my main service panel, separated by a poured concrete wall/foundation. The disconnect box will be mounted to the outside surface of this wall. I drilled a 1" hole in the back of this disconnect box to receive the wire from the main power supply.

I have 2 questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Montey

1) Im using 6/3 Romex running from the main panel to the concrete wall. Im using a 3/4" drill to drill through the 12in concrete wall. The 6/3 romex will exit the home and go directly into the box. What do I have to do to protect the 6/3 romex going into the back of the box? Just about 1/4 in will be exposed from the wall to the disconnect box.

2) When Im running 6/3 romex in the basement inside my home, I staple the cable to the middle of the running joists, but when I have to cross over a joist, must I drill a through hole in the joist to get to the next joist or can I simply staple the cable to the bottom of the joist?

I would check local codes but 99% of the local codes say the line has to be in a plastic conduit from the box to your panel. It must be a home run and totally covered from your sub panel to the main panel.

Generally a pair of 40 amp breakers are used. Just like a pool sub panel installation.

[njmurvin]

Im trying to hook up an outdoor spa to my main service panel, separated by a poured concrete wall/foundation. The disconnect box will be mounted to the outside surface of this wall. I drilled a 1" hole in the back of this disconnect box to receive the wire from the main power supply.

I have 2 questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Montey

1) Im using 6/3 Romex running from the main panel to the concrete wall. Im using a 3/4" drill to drill through the 12in concrete wall. The 6/3 romex will exit the home and go directly into the box. What do I have to do to protect the 6/3 romex going into the back of the box? Just about 1/4 in will be exposed from the wall to the disconnect box.

2) When Im running 6/3 romex in the basement inside my home, I staple the cable to the middle of the running joists, but when I have to cross over a joist, must I drill a through hole in the joist to get to the next joist or can I simply staple the cable to the bottom of the joist?

I'm not an electrician (you should consult one) . . . but

1) I'm pretty sure you shouldn't expose any romex. You should be able to cover it with something for only 1/4" - preferably something metal to resist nailing or screwing into it by mistake.

2) You shouldn't run the romex under the joists. If you ever drywall over it, it is exposed to someone nailing or screwing into it. I think there are guidelines somewhere about how big a hole and where to drill in a certain sized joists so as not to compromise their structural integrity.

[reeffreak]

Im trying to hook up an outdoor spa to my main service panel, separated by a poured concrete wall/foundation. The disconnect box will be mounted to the outside surface of this wall. I drilled a 1" hole in the back of this disconnect box to receive the wire from the main power supply.

I have 2 questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Montey

1) Im using 6/3 Romex running from the main panel to the concrete wall. Im using a 3/4" drill to drill through the 12in concrete wall. The 6/3 romex will exit the home and go directly into the box. What do I have to do to protect the 6/3 romex going into the back of the box? Just about 1/4 in will be exposed from the wall to the disconnect box.

2) When Im running 6/3 romex in the basement inside my home, I staple the cable to the middle of the running joists, but when I have to cross over a joist, must I drill a through hole in the joist to get to the next joist or can I simply staple the cable to the bottom of the joist?

I'm not an electrician (you should consult one) . . . but

1) I'm pretty sure you shouldn't expose any romex. You should be able to cover it with something for only 1/4" - preferably something metal to resist nailing or screwing into it by mistake.

2) You shouldn't run the romex under the joists. If you ever drywall over it, it is exposed to someone nailing or screwing into it. I think there are guidelines somewhere about how big a hole and where to drill in a certain sized joists so as not to compromise their structural integrity.

Romex exposed outdoors is a no-no, but I think running into a flush-mounted outside box (even with a small gap for siding / etc.) is OK. The clamp will used on the outside of the box should give you some protection. You might pull the cover for any other external sub panel in your house (A/C, etc.), and if it's allowed, I bet you'll find it. As far as stapling to bottom of joist, if a crawl space you can probably get away with it, but absolutely a no-no in an interior basement that may be finished one day. You might give your codes dept a call to see what they say.

Edit: part of the reason romex cannot be stapled to the bottom of the joists inside, is that it makes a very convenient clothes line / coat rack. 400lb of clothes on metal hangars and romex do not mix...

[texasradio]

Hot Springs 230VAC schematic calls for a special subpanel that has two separate GFCI breakers: a 20 amp and a 30 amp. Local hardware stores don't carry 30 amp GFCI breakers (there is no common use for such an item). However, subpanels with 50 amp GFCI breakers are very common, and they are specifically designed for hot tub use.

Is there an electrical reason why the Hot Springs requires this special setup? Do they not have any internal circuit protection? (I haven't gone through their control system yet to check.)

[n1oty]

Yes, Hot Springs has a reason why this is a requirement in their installation. The NEC and, I believe UL1563, require hot tub motor loads to be appropriately fused separately from the other components. Hot Springs does not have fusing on their control board for the jet pump(s). Other controllers, such as Gecko and Balboa, have those motor circuits protected on the board with various size fuses, typically SC-20, SC-25 or SC-30 for jet pump circuits.

John

Hot Springs 230VAC schematic calls for a special subpanel that has two separate GFCI breakers: a 20 amp and a 30 amp. Local hardware stores don't carry 30 amp GFCI breakers (there is no common use for such an item). However, subpanels with 50 amp GFCI breakers are very common, and they are specifically designed for hot tub use.

Is there an electrical reason why the Hot Springs requires this special setup? Do they not have any internal circuit protection? (I haven't gone through their control system yet to check.)

[PoolSpaGuy30]

Hot Springs 230VAC schematic calls for a special subpanel that has two separate GFCI breakers: a 20 amp and a 30 amp. Local hardware stores don't carry 30 amp GFCI breakers (there is no common use for such an item). However, subpanels with 50 amp GFCI breakers are very common, and they are specifically designed for hot tub use.

Is there an electrical reason why the Hot Springs requires this special setup? Do they not have any internal circuit protection? (I haven't gone through their control system yet to check.)

30amp operates the heater + other functions and the 24hr. circ pump is operated with the 20amp...if your heater should fail in the middle of winter it should only trip the 30 allowing the circ pump to operate and circulate the water preventing freezing...it is a unique setup and that is why every new spa comes with the appropriate panel

[n1oty]

For sake of clarity and so we do not get an unsuspecting consumer into trouble on a Hot Springs install, not all of the HS tubs have the heater on the 30 amp GFCI. The larger tubs with two, large HP jet pumps have to have the motor circuits on the 30 amp GFCI, so HS puts a 4 kW heater in those tubs and assigns the heat circuit to the 20 amp GFCI.

John

Hot Springs 230VAC schematic calls for a special subpanel that has two separate GFCI breakers: a 20 amp and a 30 amp. Local hardware stores don't carry 30 amp GFCI breakers (there is no common use for such an item). However, subpanels with 50 amp GFCI breakers are very common, and they are specifically designed for hot tub use.

Is there an electrical reason why the Hot Springs requires this special setup? Do they not have any internal circuit protection? (I haven't gone through their control system yet to check.)

30amp operates the heater + other functions and the 24hr. circ pump is operated with the 20amp...if your heater should fail in the middle of winter it should only trip the 30 allowing the circ pump to operate and circulate the water preventing freezing...it is a unique setup and that is why every new spa comes with the appropriate panel

[PoolSpaGuy30]

For sake of clarity and so we do not get an unsuspecting consumer into trouble on a Hot Springs install, not all of the HS tubs have the heater on the 30 amp GFCI. The larger tubs with two, large HP jet pumps have to have the motor circuits on the 30 amp GFCI, so HS puts a 4 kW heater in those tubs and assigns the heat circuit to the 20 amp GFCI.

John

Hot Springs 230VAC schematic calls for a special subpanel that has two separate GFCI breakers: a 20 amp and a 30 amp. Local hardware stores don't carry 30 amp GFCI breakers (there is no common use for such an item). However, subpanels with 50 amp GFCI breakers are very common, and they are specifically designed for hot tub use.

Is there an electrical reason why the Hot Springs requires this special setup? Do they not have any internal circuit protection? (I haven't gone through their control system yet to check.)

30amp operates the heater + other functions and the 24hr. circ pump is operated with the 20amp...if your heater should fail in the middle of winter it should only trip the 30 allowing the circ pump to operate and circulate the water preventing freezing...it is a unique setup and that is why every new spa comes with the appropriate panel

John you are correct I thought about adding editing this in...not every tub is setup like I stated, most new ones are but to avoid confusion texasradio what model and year do you have? I can get you the exact wiring diagram if you need it

edit: you can also download full manuals dating back to '99 here: Hot Spring Manuals

[texasradio]

Thanks for your answers and I do have the manual for my 2006 Jetsetter. (I was wondering why they had some models with the 4k heater, now I know.)