Concerns And Questions About Spa Electrical

[LTPS]

I have some concerns and questions about existing spa wiring. I have a Beachcomber spa that is about 10 years old and has two motors, 16.5 and 12 amp, and a 6Kw heater. The existing installation has a 40-amp circuit breaker at the house panel, 8-gauge wire from that up to the second story attic, across the attic, down the other side to the spa panel, which has a 50-amp GFCI. Total wire distance a little less than 100 feet. From the 50-amp GFCI to the spa controller, about five feet, there is 8-gauge wire. From the spa motors to the controller there is 6-gauge wire. The spa manual calls for 6-gauge wiring to be installed. The 50-amp GFCI circuit breaker at the spa now trips off immediately when I turn it on. It will do this three or four times before holding. Maybe five or ten minutes later it will trip itself off. I tried this: turned off the load to the spa by switching off the breaker at the house; the symptoms of the 50-amp GFCI breaker at the spa are then exactly the same, and I concluded that I have a bad circuit breaker at the spa. I learned that I will probably pay more for just a new breaker than for the breaker with the box. But I got to thinking, is there something with the wiring that could have caused premature failure of the breaker? Is is OK to have 40 amps at the house panel and 50 amps at the spa panel? Is it OK to have 8-gauge wire from the house panel to the spa panel to the controller but 6-gauge wire from the motors to the controller? Doesn't this mean that the spa is trying to draw more power than the 40-amp breaker and 8-gauge wire can handle, and is this not a fire hazard? If my calculations are correct, the two motors (28.5 amps total) combined with the 6Kw heater draw a more than 50 amps. But probably not ever peaking that high? But maybe peaking above 40 amps? But wouldn't such a condition trip the 40-amp breaker at the house panel before tripping the 50-amp breaker at the spa panel? I can't think that one through clearly and would love to have some input from someone with some experience wiring spas. Another symptom (maybe unrelated) is fairly frequent fuse blowouts in the controller, maybe once a month or so. So, can I just replace the 50-amp GFCI with a new one and feel safe, or am I looking at putting 50 amps at the house panel and replacing the 8-gauge wire with 6-gauge wire (and following up with the electrician, if I can find him), or can I put 40 amps at the spa panel - but don't the motors and the heater together well exceed that capacity? Thank you very much for your help.

[david_bilton]

I have some concerns and questions about existing spa wiring. I have a Beachcomber spa that is about 10 years old and has two motors, 16.5 and 12 amp, and a 6Kw heater. The existing installation has a 40-amp circuit breaker at the house panel, 8-gauge wire from that up to the second story attic, across the attic, down the other side to the spa panel, which has a 50-amp GFCI. Total wire distance a little less than 100 feet. From the 50-amp GFCI to the spa controller, about five feet, there is 8-gauge wire. From the spa motors to the controller there is 6-gauge wire. The spa manual calls for 6-gauge wiring to be installed. The 50-amp GFCI circuit breaker at the spa now trips off immediately when I turn it on. It will do this three or four times before holding. Maybe five or ten minutes later it will trip itself off. I tried this: turned off the load to the spa by switching off the breaker at the house; the symptoms of the 50-amp GFCI breaker at the spa are then exactly the same, and I concluded that I have a bad circuit breaker at the spa. I learned that I will probably pay more for just a new breaker than for the breaker with the box. But I got to thinking, is there something with the wiring that could have caused premature failure of the breaker? Is is OK to have 40 amps at the house panel and 50 amps at the spa panel? Is it OK to have 8-gauge wire from the house panel to the spa panel to the controller but 6-gauge wire from the motors to the controller? Doesn't this mean that the spa is trying to draw more power than the 40-amp breaker and 8-gauge wire can handle, and is this not a fire hazard? If my calculations are correct, the two motors (28.5 amps total) combined with the 6Kw heater draw a more than 50 amps. But probably not ever peaking that high? But maybe peaking above 40 amps? But wouldn't such a condition trip the 40-amp breaker at the house panel before tripping the 50-amp breaker at the spa panel? I can't think that one through clearly and would love to have some input from someone with some experience wiring spas. Another symptom (maybe unrelated) is fairly frequent fuse blowouts in the controller, maybe once a month or so. So, can I just replace the 50-amp GFCI with a new one and feel safe, or am I looking at putting 50 amps at the house panel and replacing the 8-gauge wire with 6-gauge wire (and following up with the electrician, if I can find him), or can I put 40 amps at the spa panel - but don't the motors and the heater together well exceed that capacity? Thank you very much for your help.

you need to get a real electrical contractor to your spa your page reads like a horror story good luck

[LTPS]

A real electrical contractor did the work. There might not be a problem with the wiring. I'm just seeking some input on that. It just seems weird to me that the 50-amp GFCI breaker now fails. There's 8-gauge from the 40-amp breaker at the house to the 50-amp breaker at the spa, then 8-gauge to the spa pack, then 6-gauge from the pack to the motors. The motors draw 28.5 amps and the 6Kw heater on a 220 circuit draws over 27 amps. That's more than 50 amps. I could see how the combination would never really draw over 50 amps. But 40 amps? Why would a real electrical contractor put in a 40-amp breaker at the house and run 8-gauge wire against so much draw? Maybe it's OK. I'm just seeking some input on that. Is this a typical installation?

[david_bilton]

A real electrical contractor did the work. There might not be a problem with the wiring. I'm just seeking some input on that. It just seems weird to me that the 50-amp GFCI breaker now fails. There's 8-gauge from the 40-amp breaker at the house to the 50-amp breaker at the spa, then 8-gauge to the spa pack, then 6-gauge from the pack to the motors. The motors draw 28.5 amps and the 6Kw heater on a 220 circuit draws over 27 amps. That's more than 50 amps. I could see how the combination would never really draw over 50 amps. But 40 amps? Why would a real electrical contractor put in a 40-amp breaker at the house and run 8-gauge wire against so much draw? Maybe it's OK. I'm just seeking some input on that. Is this a typical installation?

with the power off open the gfci box and look for cooked wires i have seen this before on a coast flaw tub once i opened it the wire end were all cooked off and that was giving them trip issues good luck on this

[LTPS]

Thank you for the helpful suggestion. I have isolated the problem to hot wires from the spa breaker coming into the control panel. If I disconnect either hot, the breaker does not trip. When both hots are connected to the control panel, the breaker trips immediately. So we have a fault to ground at the spa itself? Or possibly a fault to neutral? If so, would the most likely cause be a bad board in the control panel? I repeated the test with both motors and the heater disconnected and the breaker still trips when both hots are connected. Thank you for any help you can provide.

[david_bilton]

Thank you for the helpful suggestion. I have isolated the problem to hot wires from the spa breaker coming into the control panel. If I disconnect either hot, the breaker does not trip. When both hots are connected to the control panel, the breaker trips immediately. So we have a fault to ground at the spa itself? Or possibly a fault to neutral? If so, would the most likely cause be a bad board in the control panel? I repeated the test with both motors and the heater disconnected and the breaker still trips when both hots are connected. Thank you for any help you can provide.

try unplugging pump 1 then turn the power back do this for each thing you have plugged into the spa pak when all are unplugged you will be left with the transformer if that is the problem then you are looking at a new board good luck

[LTPS]

Thank you. I think I have isolated the problem to a fault to ground at the spa pack. I unplugged the motors and heater and still the breaker tripped. Then I disconnected the ground wire from the spa pack and the breaker did not trip. Bad board? If so, is it worth inspecting the board closely for any bad contacts, relays, corrosion, etc.; if not, can I just replace the board, or am I looking at a whole new pack. I appreciate your help.

[Dr. Spa]

Then I disconnected the ground wire from the spa pack and the breaker did not trip. Bad board?

Disconnecting the ground and not having the GFI trip simply tells you that something, could be anything, has a ground fault (voltage going to ground). It in no way tells you what it might be.

[david_bilton]

Thank you. I think I have isolated the problem to a fault to ground at the spa pack. I unplugged the motors and heater and still the breaker tripped. Then I disconnected the ground wire from the spa pack and the breaker did not trip. Bad board? If so, is it worth inspecting the board closely for any bad contacts, relays, corrosion, etc.; if not, can I just replace the board, or am I looking at a whole new pack. I appreciate your help.

go with the new pak then you will have new heater and pressure switch and new heater o-ring good luck

[LTPS]

Right. But if it's not the motors or the heater, what else could it be? When I disconnect both motors and the heater the breaker still trips.

[david_bilton]

Right. But if it's not the motors or the heater, what else could it be? When I disconnect both motors and the heater the breaker still trips.

transformer or topside controls or a software glitch or the board is toast good luck