Jump to content


(April 12, 2014) POOLSPAFORUM.COM SITE UPGRADE!


Photo
- - - - -

Circulation Pump Won't Turn Off


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 fester

fester

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 08:42 AM

Hi all, this is my first post on your very informative forum. I would just like to thank the contributors for the excellent information I've read so far.

Anyways, I recently purchased a home that included a Sundance Marin model spa, its fairly old (house was built in 89, but maybe the spa is 5+ years younger). The spa was not working (don't know what was wrong) but our realtor has a husband who is a handyman, who added a new control panel and some large metal tube near the heater. He broke the pressure switch on the metal tube, so I couldn't have him check the whole thing to see if it was good or not.

Okay, after installing the pressure switch myself, flipped the circuit on and turned the heat on - heat+pressure+jets = all working. So I wanted to drain the 3+ year old water out, and did. So I turned off the circuit breaker before I did that. Cleaned everything, added some silicone stuff, and refilled.

This part sucks - I turned the breaker back on, and the spa did not do the quick jet blast + pump startup like it had been doing during my other tests. It just went to circulation pump mode. The two things I've tried are turning off all the filter settings, which are on a manual timer wheel which sucks (can I replace this with a digital? It's 2010...). I even pulled the black wire that goes from the circuit board to the timer, to make sure it's not accidentally switching on. Also, I tried turning off the spa at the breaker for about 20 seconds and turning it on, which didn't do anything either.

I suspect a bad relay, or maybe there is some reason the relay won't trip to turn the pump off.

Any thoughts?
Thanks for reading, if I forgot something important, let me know.

edit: already forgot something - even after the tub is heated to temp (100* now) the pump is still on. I turned the heat off overnight, maybe the pump will circulate while the system is hot, but it ran all night.

#2 ps558

ps558

    Spa Guru

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 10:53 AM

QUOTE (fester @ Feb 21 2010, 11:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi all, this is my first post on your very informative forum. I would just like to thank the contributors for the excellent information I've read so far.

Anyways, I recently purchased a home that included a Sundance Marin model spa, its fairly old (house was built in 89, but maybe the spa is 5+ years younger). The spa was not working (don't know what was wrong) but our realtor has a husband who is a handyman, who added a new control panel and some large metal tube near the heater. He broke the pressure switch on the metal tube, so I couldn't have him check the whole thing to see if it was good or not.

Okay, after installing the pressure switch myself, flipped the circuit on and turned the heat on - heat+pressure+jets = all working. So I wanted to drain the 3+ year old water out, and did. So I turned off the circuit breaker before I did that. Cleaned everything, added some silicone stuff, and refilled.

This part sucks - I turned the breaker back on, and the spa did not do the quick jet blast + pump startup like it had been doing during my other tests. It just went to circulation pump mode. The two things I've tried are turning off all the filter settings, which are on a manual timer wheel which sucks (can I replace this with a digital? It's 2010...). I even pulled the black wire that goes from the circuit board to the timer, to make sure it's not accidentally switching on. Also, I tried turning off the spa at the breaker for about 20 seconds and turning it on, which didn't do anything either.

I suspect a bad relay, or maybe there is some reason the relay won't trip to turn the pump off.

Any thoughts?
Thanks for reading, if I forgot something important, let me know.

edit: already forgot something - even after the tub is heated to temp (100* now) the pump is still on. I turned the heat off overnight, maybe the pump will circulate while the system is hot, but it ran all night.



Is there a switch mark timer and thermostat? Some of the older spas had a switch which would run the spa by the thermostat setting or only from the timer. It the timer is bad it could keep the pump running all the time.
Ad for installing a digital pack it can be done with a little more info.
Is the heater stainless piece connected to the spa pack or is it by itself with the plumbing? Also is it straight or curved. If memory serves me correct most sundance spas had the heater mounted away from the control box. Good thing Hydroquip makes a spa pack that tons of option for pump and heater placement. You will need to know the voltage coming to the spa. Voltage of the pump and how many speeds and quanity and if there is a blower installed.

#3 fester

fester

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 01:10 PM

Thanks for the reply. Here are some pics of the works.

The metal tube and the pressure switch were replaced. The ghetto wiring on the top is a short term fix for the temp sensor when the heater was run without water for 1 minute


This is the poor analog clock timer


This is the whole circuit board. The red black yellow and white wires going to the timer could all be disconnected without the pump stopping.


This is a close up of the relays.


"Is there a switch mark timer and thermostat?"
No there isn't, the pump is supposed to be on only if the heater is working according to the manual.

" Some of the older spas had a switch which would run the spa by the thermostat setting or only from the timer. It the timer is bad it could keep the pump running all the time."
I thought that may be happening, so I bypassed the timer and turned the thermostat all the way down, and tried economy mode.

"Is the heater stainless piece connected to the spa pack or is it by itself with the plumbing? Also is it straight or curved. If memory serves me correct most sundance spas had the heater mounted away from the control box. Good thing Hydroquip makes a spa pack that tons of option for pump and heater placement. You will need to know the voltage coming to the spa. Voltage of the pump and how many speeds and quanity and if there is a blower installed."

Hopefully the pics will answer most of those ?s. Voltage is 240, single speed pump. Blower? not sure, but there is a switch for "jets" and "air" on the control panel on the top.

So, after my initial post, I left for a few hours. I came back, and one of the relays was making a racket. I suspect it's the one labeled "pump 1". I turned the breaker off and let it rest for 30 minutes. Turned it on, no more racket. Is it normal to be able to get a replacement relay? All I find online are whole circuit boards. Also, how many solder points does the relay have? Does it even need to be soldered to the board?

Are there any tests I can do to see if it's the relay?

Thanks in advance.

#4 thespaguyca

thespaguyca

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 16 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:04 PM

If it hasn't been used in a while the relay chatter may go away after you turn the pump off and on a few times.
The black wire going to the timer is likely 110v to power the timer motor.
The red and yellow wires are likely switched power to/from the boadr.

#5 ps558

ps558

    Spa Guru

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (fester @ Feb 21 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the reply. Here are some pics of the works.

The metal tube and the pressure switch were replaced. The ghetto wiring on the top is a short term fix for the temp sensor when the heater was run without water for 1 minute


This is the poor analog clock timer


This is the whole circuit board. The red black yellow and white wires going to the timer could all be disconnected without the pump stopping.


This is a close up of the relays.


"Is there a switch mark timer and thermostat?"
No there isn't, the pump is supposed to be on only if the heater is working according to the manual.

" Some of the older spas had a switch which would run the spa by the thermostat setting or only from the timer. It the timer is bad it could keep the pump running all the time."
I thought that may be happening, so I bypassed the timer and turned the thermostat all the way down, and tried economy mode.

"Is the heater stainless piece connected to the spa pack or is it by itself with the plumbing? Also is it straight or curved. If memory serves me correct most sundance spas had the heater mounted away from the control box. Good thing Hydroquip makes a spa pack that tons of option for pump and heater placement. You will need to know the voltage coming to the spa. Voltage of the pump and how many speeds and quanity and if there is a blower installed."

Hopefully the pics will answer most of those ?s. Voltage is 240, single speed pump. Blower? not sure, but there is a switch for "jets" and "air" on the control panel on the top.

So, after my initial post, I left for a few hours. I came back, and one of the relays was making a racket. I suspect it's the one labeled "pump 1". I turned the breaker off and let it rest for 30 minutes. Turned it on, no more racket. Is it normal to be able to get a replacement relay? All I find online are whole circuit boards. Also, how many solder points does the relay have? Does it even need to be soldered to the board?

Are there any tests I can do to see if it's the relay?

Thanks in advance.


Electronic places might have the relays you need, but if after you go through all that and its the IC Chip you still need a new board. I am trying to find a retailer that sells packs without a heater. I can't find any but My supplier has them but they only sells to pool ans spa stores. Since the heater has been replaced it is no sense to replace it.
Most all new packs come with a heater and are about the same price, but replumbing will have to be done. He is a link with pictures on the left of a replacement job on a sundance spa.
http://www.hottubwor...acksDigital.php
If you go with a new pack make sure it is a Balboa, HydroQuip , Gecko. These are 3 reliable ones stay away from any thing that says ACC. Your pump is Hayward most likely 120 volts 2 speed. If you mind replacing everything the Balboa Packs are can be configured for 120 or 240 volts

#6 ps558

ps558

    Spa Guru

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 21 February 2010 - 03:15 PM

Here is a link to look at a pack with no heater
http://www.horizonpa...tem=58-355-3272 This would run about $600.00 which is more than a Balboa VS500 pack with a new heater
Here is a basic Balboa spa pack which incudes all new stuff
http://www.cedartubs...oller-p-23.html You would just need to redo the plumbing like the pictures from the other web site.

#7 fester

fester

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:32 PM

Thanks for the links to the packs, they look nice. I am low on funds, so these are not really in the near future for me, but I think I will upgrade to the Balboa v2500, that looks pretty nice. Really what I want to do right now is make this thing work until I can get a new setup.

One thing I noticed- My jets have three settings, off, jet 1, and jet 2. Jet 2 is the full 9, while jet 1 is the same as the circulating pump. Does this signify something wrong with the pump?


#8 ps558

ps558

    Spa Guru

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 24 February 2010 - 04:44 PM

QUOTE (fester @ Feb 24 2010, 07:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the links to the packs, they look nice. I am low on funds, so these are not really in the near future for me, but I think I will upgrade to the Balboa v2500, that looks pretty nice. Really what I want to do right now is make this thing work until I can get a new setup.

One thing I noticed- My jets have three settings, off, jet 1, and jet 2. Jet 2 is the full 9, while jet 1 is the same as the circulating pump. Does this signify something wrong with the pump?


No it is a two speed pump. Meaning if it is off you run it on low speed or switch it to high speed. Yes the low speed is the same as when it is heating or circulating

#9 fester

fester

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted 28 February 2010 - 11:03 PM

Thanks for the clarification. Warning, next part is long, so, proceed if you have the time wink.gif

Well, it seems like some things have taken a turn for the worse, I left the spa running for 3-4 hours to heat up, and when I went to check on it, the relay was making a racket again. So I tried pressing some of the controls, and when I turned on the jets, the pump started sputtering, and randomly freaking out (hard to describe, kind of like on off on off in quick random intervals) while the flow and heat light flickered in time to the stuttering. So, this is sort of what happened when I let the heat stay on for a while (without the pump stuttering, thats new this time), and it leads me to believe the electronics that are supposed to stop the heater and pump when the heat is at the right temp are fouled. The Air switch worked fine and caused no issues. The light switch turn off the pump completely, hallelujah I thougt, it's righted itself. But now, the pump then started making a very weak attempt at turning on, similar to the stuttering but it seemed like it was the low speed mode this time. Turning the light off brought back the "normal" operation of the pump staying on in low speed, and the pump making a lot of noise and sputtering when it was at full speed.

At this point, I tried to lower the thermostat, and see if that would change the mode the electronics were in, and it did after a bit. Once the temp dropped below 104, I tried the jets, and they worked again. It seems like not being in "Its hot, turn off the pump and heat" mode stops the pump from whatever problem the electronics are causing.

So I'm going to live with this nonsense for the short term, but now I'm unsure if the pump is messed up or not. Is there an easy way to test the pump? Like hooking a direct switch to the wires or something to just make sure the pump itself is ok, and the problem is isolated to the electronics. Also, one other question, how much would I reasonably expect to pay for the install of a new pack, plus the plumbing work?

Thanks for reading, your help is appreciated (all of you).


#10 ps558

ps558

    Spa Guru

  • Validating
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,121 posts

Posted 01 March 2010 - 01:35 PM

QUOTE (fester @ Mar 1 2010, 02:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanks for the clarification. Warning, next part is long, so, proceed if you have the time wink.gif

Well, it seems like some things have taken a turn for the worse, I left the spa running for 3-4 hours to heat up, and when I went to check on it, the relay was making a racket again. So I tried pressing some of the controls, and when I turned on the jets, the pump started sputtering, and randomly freaking out (hard to describe, kind of like on off on off in quick random intervals) while the flow and heat light flickered in time to the stuttering. So, this is sort of what happened when I let the heat stay on for a while (without the pump stuttering, thats new this time), and it leads me to believe the electronics that are supposed to stop the heater and pump when the heat is at the right temp are fouled. The Air switch worked fine and caused no issues. The light switch turn off the pump completely, hallelujah I thougt, it's righted itself. But now, the pump then started making a very weak attempt at turning on, similar to the stuttering but it seemed like it was the low speed mode this time. Turning the light off brought back the "normal" operation of the pump staying on in low speed, and the pump making a lot of noise and sputtering when it was at full speed.

At this point, I tried to lower the thermostat, and see if that would change the mode the electronics were in, and it did after a bit. Once the temp dropped below 104, I tried the jets, and they worked again. It seems like not being in "Its hot, turn off the pump and heat" mode stops the pump from whatever problem the electronics are causing.

So I'm going to live with this nonsense for the short term, but now I'm unsure if the pump is messed up or not. Is there an easy way to test the pump? Like hooking a direct switch to the wires or something to just make sure the pump itself is ok, and the problem is isolated to the electronics. Also, one other question, how much would I reasonably expect to pay for the install of a new pack, plus the plumbing work?

Thanks for reading, your help is appreciated (all of you).



On the pump motor is a label which would tell you the voltage the pump runs off of 120 or 230. You can direct connect the pump for testing if you like just follow the diagram on the label. Those old pump motors are built like tanks. It is prob OK. Motors either run or don't run. If you see smoke from the motor turn off the spa. I am guessing what is happening is the electronics are trying to get the motor to run on low and high speed at the same time. The motor can't do it. If you want you can remove the wire that goes to the high speed terminel in the back of the motor. Put some electrical tape on it and see if it will run on low.
I most of the time can get the new packs installed in about a hour. It all depends on the tech. You would have to call around for labor rates they are all different




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

website security