[cramp11]

We've had our hot tub for 76 days. Our dealer got us to try Peroxysan. I have bad eczema so I figured why not give it a whirl. Sounded good.

Just over a month into have the tub, we saw some white floaty things in the tub. We spiked the Peroxysan (as per the dealer's advice) but it just kind of make them go into a ball and float. We'd clean them up and they'd come back.

After a month of trying to fight it (and a whole lot of Peroxysan) we decided to drain the tub. Before we did, we bought a chlorine shock and spiked the ppm to ???. (strip only goes to 10 ppm and it was very black)

We ran the jets on high for about 60 min alternating the air on/off.

We drained the tub and hosed the sides down multiple times.

We sprayed the inside of the tub and cover with 5:1 ratio Peroxysan.

We shocked both filters with a high ppm of chlorine as well and rinsed them both multiple times.

We filled the tub again with just hose water this time (nothing from the hot water tank) and added 12 cups of Peroxysan. (our tub is about 1100L)

We checked the tub today and we had balls of white crud floating around in the tub. I'm guessing it was in the pipes. Our dealer advised us to pour in another 12 cups of h2o2. (that's $50 worth )

I changed the filter and am hoping that the floaters are just dead remains from the pipes. (that's what the dealer says anyways)

Our h2o2 ppm is about 400 right now. We're supposed to keep it at 100 ppm. We haven't even used the tub since the refill. (yesterday)

If we still have these things by the end of the week, we're going to take back what we have left of the Peroxysan and switch to bromine. As much as I love not smelling the chemicals, I can't bath in a pool of snot.

Any ideas of why the tub still has stuff in it? I don't understand why the chlorine didn't fry it. Maybe it is dead stuff just breaking loose from the pipes.

If I switch to bromine, do I have to drain and start all over again?

I have 8 L of Peroxysan left. At $133 for 16L, I want this to work, but from what I've seen on here about it... I'm doomed.

[mcw53]

76 days ... that's about the length of my baqua nightmare. Use Nitro's Decontamination Procedure and Approach To Water Maintenance. You'll spend about $2/month on bleach. If done right, you will have sparkling water for many months with absolutely no chlorine odor.

[cramp11]

Interesting articles. I pretty much did the decontamination process except I didn't use a cleaner for the pipes and I used a shock chlorine instead of bleach. Maybe that's why I have crap floating around. If it's all dead crap, the filter will eventually get it all, but I need to know if it's dead. I guess if new stuff shows up, it didn't work.

I don't know why my spa dealer didn't suggest a cleaner since they knew we had crud in the tub.

I'll def pass the article about bleach to my wife to read. Thanks for the response.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Forget about the peroxide and follow Nitro's decontamination procedure and then his water maintenance system.

Drain the tub, wash the filters, refill, decontaminate, drain, refill and then begin the dichlor and then bleach method.

[cramp11]

Well it's def not old dead stuff floating around... 2 weeks into a fresh fill and we have white fluffy things floating in the water again. Not much, but when we put the jets on high with the air for 3-4 min and then turn it off... we see 4-5 of them. I use a little strainer to get them, but there are fresh ones daily.

Not a happy camper. My wife is just as pissed off. We're embarressed to invite anyone over. Debating about draining it and shutting it off for the winter. Maybe a few months of negative degree weather will kill everything in the tub and we'll start fresh in the spring.

I want to switch to something else, but I still have 12 L of Peroxysan and a 5 gallon pail of 35% peroxide. I don't want to just throw it out.

Is there anything I can do to shock the water to kill the fluffy stuff without empying the tub? I read a site that someone just poured a crap load of bleach into the tub, killed everything and then went back to using peroxide once the bleach dissapated Is this an option? How much peroxide would I need to kill this stuff? I poured 6L into the tub when we started fresh.

A few sites say that the white fluffy stuff is harmless and just a pain in the butt. I still don't feel like trying to say that to people when we have them over. "ignore the snot looking stuff... it's harmless..."

[bart6453]

Well it's def not old dead stuff floating around... 2 weeks into a fresh fill and we have white fluffy things floating in the water again. Not much, but when we put the jets on high with the air for 3-4 min and then turn it off... we see 4-5 of them. I use a little strainer to get them, but there are fresh ones daily.

Not a happy camper. My wife is just as pissed off. We're embarressed to invite anyone over. Debating about draining it and shutting it off for the winter. Maybe a few months of negative degree weather will kill everything in the tub and we'll start fresh in the spring.

I want to switch to something else, but I still have 12 L of Peroxysan and a 5 gallon pail of 35% peroxide. I don't want to just throw it out.

Is there anything I can do to shock the water to kill the fluffy stuff without empying the tub? I read a site that someone just poured a crap load of bleach into the tub, killed everything and then went back to using peroxide once the bleach dissapated Is this an option? How much peroxide would I need to kill this stuff? I poured 6L into the tub when we started fresh.

A few sites say that the white fluffy stuff is harmless and just a pain in the butt. I still don't feel like trying to say that to people when we have them over. "ignore the snot looking stuff... it's harmless..."

Here is some advice for you...

I can understand not wanting to waste the chemicals that you already have...but...you already spent the money. That cash is gone, you will never get it back whether you use the chemicals or not.

You can successfully sanitize you hot tub for about a month on one gallon of clorox bleach, which costs about $3.50 You will also need a small supply of Di-chlor to get your CYA up to 20-30ppm as prescribed by Nitro.

So you are looking at realistically spending about $20.00 to change to chlorine. I know you really should drain and refill and use chlorine...but I know from experience that you can switch from peroxide to chlorine on the fly. My friend had a huge pool that was peroxide sanitized and got out of control. We couldnt drain it due to the volume, so we switched to chlorine. It did use more bleach than if we had started fresh, but it still worked.


Really what it comes down to is being stubborn. Don't be stubborn, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.

Just switch, and be done...you will reduce your stress level by 1000% in about a half an hour.

good luck.

[mcw53]

I agree with Bart; it's all sunk cost. Your problems will continue until you do something different ... like switch to an EPA approved sanitation method. I recommend you take the advice previously suggested by several in this thread: Use Nitro's Decontamination Procedure and Approach To Water Maintenance. Believe me, I know exactly how you (and your wife) are feeling. I went though the same ordeal with BaquaSpa. I was really close to calling my dealer to have them take the hot tub back. But now, I coudn't be happier.

[bart6453]

I agree with Bart; it's all sunk cost. Your problems will continue until you do something different ... like switch to an EPA approved sanitation method. I recommend you take the advice previously suggested by several in this thread: Use Nitro's Decontamination Procedure and Approach To Water Maintenance. Believe me, I know exactly how you (and your wife) are feeling. I went though the same ordeal with BaquaSpa. I was really close to calling my dealer to have them take the hot tub back. But now, I coudn't be happier.

God I hate that bug!

[mcw53]

God I hate that bug!

Bart,
I just did Nitro's Decontamination Procedure on my signature ... the bug is gone!! That Nitro guy really knows his stuff!!!

[bart6453]

God I hate that bug!

Bart,
I just did Nitro's Decontamination Procedure on my signature ... the bug is gone!! That Nitro guy really knows his stuff!!!

That's funny...I wouldn't take that bug off for anything....by far the best signature I have ever seen!

[quantumchromodynamics]

Sell the hydrogen peroxide on eBay. There are many people who use it for many things. Taxidermists use it to clean the meat off skeletons.

Switch to Nitro's method.

[cramp11]

I printed off the Approach to Water Maintenance. Gotta learn all of this stuff and get a kit since I'm just using peroxide strips. Our dealer said you don't have to worry about balancing anything else since it doesn't effect the peroxide. I'm starting to think that's not good advice.

My wife wants to try this : http://www.centipede...5_percent2.html (Just the Hot Tub Shock part) before throwing in the towel. I want to balance the water before I do this though.

Worst case... it doesn't work and everyone on here gets to say, "I told ya so dummy."

Unfortunately I am stubborn, but I do appreciate the help/advice.

[Mikey_in_NY]

Just to echo Bart's and everyone else's comments I'd 100% recommend Nitro's Dichlor then Chlorox method. The last thing you want to do is further p*ss yourself and your wife off by continuing this comedy of errors using peroxysan. Just put the cost of your chemicals down to experience (or sell them), and move on with more traditional, and reliable sanitizers.

[mcw53]

I'll def pass the article about bleach to my wife to read.

My wife wants to try this : http://www.centipede...5_percent2.html (Just the Hot Tub Shock part) before throwing in the towel. Worst case... it doesn't work

Maybe we should be talking to your wife. Tell her that following the centipede shock instructions would be extremely hazardous to your health and to your hot tub. Fortunately your hot tub is less than 300 gallons, so you will only need to add 1 gallon of bleach to your tub. That is over 200 ppm free chlorine with 6% bleach! "Not working" is not the worst case scenario.

If your hot tub is not crystal clear, it is time to shock it. Add 1 gallon of bleach to main body of the tub of any unit 300 gallons or less, 2 gallons for tubs over 300 gallons. Turn on all jets, bubblers, etc. and let them run for about 5 minutes. PUT YOUR HOT TUB COVER ON IMMEDIATELY after starting the jets to avoid dangerous fumes. After running hot tub for 5 minutes, wait 48 hours until you next application of 35% FOOD GRADE HYDROGEN PEROXIDE and resume normal usage cycle. Also, wait 48 hours before using Hot tub.

They also have a sweet deal on hydrogen peroxide ... $20/quart + $20 DOT charges + $9 shipping

[cramp11]

You have to help me out a bit. How is this method hazardous to the tub and our health? Obviously the fumes are bad. Pour it in and get the heck away. We poured in bleach when we emptied the tub last time. Nitro's decontamination says to pour in bleach. What am I missing?

Over 200ppm free chlorine doesn't mean much to me. I guess that's really high. How high does it need to be to kill this white fungus/algae. I'm only 2 weeks into a fresh fill and I don't want to dump it and start over if I don't have to.

I know that peroxide will neutralize chlorine. Is that why this site is advising to add so much bleach? My peroxide levels are at about 200ppm right now.

All I'm trying to do it figure out how much bleach do I need to add to kill this stuff and not dump my water. Is that even possible?

The plan right now is to pour in X amount of bleach (right now a gallon), run the jets on high with the air open for the full 20 min cycle, then turn the air off and let it sit for 48 hours.

I'll see what crud floats up (or down), if any, and clean it up.

I'll just keep checking the chlorine levels until they are lower (2 days... 10 days... a month... whatever it takes) and then put in peroxide until my levels are over 100ppm again.

[mcw53]

Nitro's decontamination procedure recommends 50 ppm chlorine for an hour and then dump to prevent damage to your tub.
Generally, 3 to 5 ppm chlorine is considered safe for soaking.

[bart6453]

You have to help me out a bit. How is this method hazardous to the tub and our health? Obviously the fumes are bad. Pour it in and get the heck away. We poured in bleach when we emptied the tub last time. Nitro's decontamination says to pour in bleach. What am I missing?

Over 200ppm free chlorine doesn't mean much to me. I guess that's really high. How high does it need to be to kill this white fungus/algae. I'm only 2 weeks into a fresh fill and I don't want to dump it and start over if I don't have to.

I know that peroxide will neutralize chlorine. Is that why this site is advising to add so much bleach? My peroxide levels are at about 200ppm right now.

All I'm trying to do it figure out how much bleach do I need to add to kill this stuff and not dump my water. Is that even possible?

The plan right now is to pour in X amount of bleach (right now a gallon), run the jets on high with the air open for the full 20 min cycle, then turn the air off and let it sit for 48 hours.

I'll see what crud floats up (or down), if any, and clean it up.

I'll just keep checking the chlorine levels until they are lower (2 days... 10 days... a month... whatever it takes) and then put in peroxide until my levels are over 100ppm again.

You really need to pick a program and stick with it.

Why go through all the work of experimenting with this and that...when all you have to do is follow Nitro's instructions and you are done.

Go get a test kit, 2 gallons of bleach, and a pound of Di-chlor.

Add the bleach up to 50ppm, let sit for 30 minutes..check to make sure you actually maintained some higher level of FC. Then drain and add dichlor up to a total of 22-33ppm (depending on your desired CYA level 20 or 30).

After a week of adding dichlor, switch to bleach and you are golden..

Really in a nutshell...that's about all you need to do to switch.

If you are worried about the water usage...filling a spa is nearly nothing for actual water. In our town water is $3.13 per 100 cubic feet plus $3.19 per 100 cubic feet for disposal....100 cubic feet equals 750 gallons....so a fill on my tub costs about two dollars.

Make life easy..take the bull by the horns....and just switch.

[cramp11]

I can't sell my wife on using bleach in the tub as our 'main' chemical. Chlorine is chlorine, but she's not sold. I'd be willing to put gasoline in the tub if I knew it would kill this crap. She wants to take one more shot at peroxide after we kill this stuff. I'm starting to think this crap was in the tub when we got it. It was a second so it was laying around for ?? after being filled a few times and tested.

We called a few spa places today about the white goop. All 3 said we needed to use a cleaner to flush the crap out of the pipes. Spa Purge was the product at the store near my wife's work. Our dealer said Peroxysan has "a solution" that they are going to give us since we've had so many problems. It's 10L of ???. (I haven't got it yet) Sounds like Spa Purge (or simular). It's $50 normally which sounds like a big price hike, but we'll give it a whirl.

The spa place did a reading for us since she wanted a water sample from our tub.

pH : 8.2
TA: 230
Ca: 175 (calcium?)
TDS 200ppm (???)

We bought pH up/down/all around and some TA additive. It's a plus though so I can't see us ever using it since our levels are so high. $6 though... it can sit on the shelf and look pretty.

We're going to get this 'stuff' on Sat, pour it in, drain, clean, etc and start from scratch.

They say we don't need to refill, balance, bleach and emply a second time, but I think I'm going to just to be sure it's all gone and everything is dead.

The weird thing in our adventure is that every place was asking if our water was cloudy. Our water is crystal clear. You just see the odd flake after the jets have been on high.

I'm hoping a proper nuke of the tub will give us a fresh start.

I'm going to read the article again about decontamination because of the lid. I want to make sure ALL traces of this stuff is GONE!

[cramp11]

Forgot to add... I don't have a test kit to do everything you listed.

I was just looking at the Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006 vs Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006-C ($58 vs $102) since it was recommended.

This is all new to me so I have some figuring out to do. Wife wants it to be a Xmas gift, but I don't want to wait a month to balance my water properly.

[quantumchromodynamics]

I think that the company's advice to add a gallon of bleach is more than enough proof that the peroxide does not work. If the peroxide worked, there would be no need to shock the tub that hard.

[bart6453]

Forgot to add... I don't have a test kit to do everything you listed.

I was just looking at the Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006 vs Taylor Complete DPD Test Kit K-2006-C ($58 vs $102) since it was recommended.

This is all new to me so I have some figuring out to do. Wife wants it to be a Xmas gift, but I don't want to wait a month to balance my water properly.

first things first......peroxide is crap. look up my posts on the pain and anguish I had dealing with my friends pool who wouldnt listen to me to begin with and insisted that peroxide was the way to go.

If your wife does not like bleach, just go to the pool store and get some di-chlor and then when you get your CYA up to 20-30ppm, switch to unstabilized chlorine from the pool store. I don't use it, so I dont know much about it....but chem geek can kick in here to let you know more about it. I have seen it at my pool store, and the pool calculator gives you an option for using it in the calculation....you can also use the pool calculator on your iphone/ipod (super handy for spa side adjustments) Incidentally, my pool store sells clorox too...because that is what they use when for the pool service side of their business.

Anyways....if your wife still insists on using peroxide, search MRSA(methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus) on here....and if after reading about the horror stories does not change your mind....well then....you are making your own bed to lie in.

I know I am being a bit harsh...but I had to take care of a huge pool that was out of control and frankly dangerous because of peroxide.

good luck, Remember...if you don't like the advice that is given....WHY DID YOU ASK?

[bart6453]

.

[chem geek]

One could use Dichlor for about a week and then switch to lithium hypochlorite from the spa store. The latter will cost 5-6 times as much as Clorox Regular 6% bleach, but if that's what it takes for marital harmony, then so be it. Don't forget that if you go this route that the Total Alkalinity (TA) will need to be low to prevent the pH from rising too quickly.

[quantumchromodynamics]

I can't sell my wife on using bleach in the tub as our 'main' chemical.

Go to the pool store and buy "liquid chlorine". You can tell her that it's made specifically for water treatment.

[Vince22]

I can't sell my wife on using bleach in the tub as our 'main' chemical.

Go to the pool store and buy "liquid chlorine". You can tell her that it's made specifically for water treatment.

Or....you could ask her just how much research she's done on the topic--how many books, articles, posts has she read. When she looks sheepish and answers "none", tell her that until she does, you're the resident expert and she can fly a kite.

Worked for me. Now she leaves the spa maintenance to me, enjoys the money we're saving on chemicals, and has a great time using the tub. No fuss, no muss.

[bart6453]

I can't sell my wife on using bleach in the tub as our 'main' chemical.

Go to the pool store and buy "liquid chlorine". You can tell her that it's made specifically for water treatment.

Or....you could ask her just how much research she's done on the topic--how many books, articles, posts has she read. When she looks sheepish and answers "none", tell her that until she does, you're the resident expert and she can fly a kite.

Worked for me. Now she leaves the spa maintenance to me, enjoys the money we're saving on chemicals, and has a great time using the tub. No fuss, no muss.

+1....just didnt want to say it

[cramp11]

After doing our own research, we're sticking with Peroxide. I never said that I was going to switch. I just wanted to research my options. I like keeping an open mind and not be bullied into making a choice.

My reason for this post was about killing the stuff and saving the water. That wasn't an option. So the decomtamition reading began.

Looks great, but the method we chose was Sani-Cleen (23% peroxide and 4.3% Peroxyacetic acid)

It's doing it's thing right now.

Thanks,

Cramp

[Vince22]

After doing our own research, we're sticking with Peroxide. I never said that I was going to switch. I just wanted to research my options. I like keeping an open mind and not be bullied into making a choice.

My reason for this post was about killing the stuff and saving the water. That wasn't an option. So the decomtamition reading began.

Looks great, but the method we chose was Sani-Cleen (23% peroxide and 4.3% Peroxyacetic acid)

It's doing it's thing right now.

Thanks,

Cramp

I honestly don't think anyone means to bully you into anything. You have a spa with a mold problem, and the people giving you advice don't. Also, they don't stand to make any money off you. I'd say that adds just a touch more objectivity than your spa dealer n'est pas?

[bart6453]

After doing our own research, we're sticking with Peroxide. I never said that I was going to switch. I just wanted to research my options. I like keeping an open mind and not be bullied into making a choice.

My reason for this post was about killing the stuff and saving the water. That wasn't an option. So the decomtamition reading began.

Looks great, but the method we chose was Sani-Cleen (23% peroxide and 4.3% Peroxyacetic acid)

It's doing it's thing right now.

Thanks,

Cramp

Good luck, I hope it all works out well.

Didn't mean to bully you....just wanted to share how strongly I feel about peroxide.

[Nitro]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him maintain it.

Cramp just keep us posted. Good luck.

[cramp11]

No worries and no hard feelings. Who knows... in a month I may be posting that it's back, but I'm going to go in positive and hope for the best. I have so much peroxide and peroxysan right now since they gave me another 8L on top of what I had already. Cost is nothing. Time, frustration, etc... I'll chalk it up as life experience. Sometimes you have to fail before you can succed.

It's cold this morning and I was out scrubbing the cover with a soft brush. The water keeps freezing. I think I'll wait until the sun comes around the house and it again this afternoon. I can't see how the heck anyone could change water in the winter no matter what chemical is used. Yikes!

Anywho... after hockey, I empty the tub, wipe it down, fill it up to rinse, empty again and then fill 'er up for use. Fingers crossed.

It was def amazing to watch this chemical do its thing. When we poured it in, the fluffy stuff instantly went into a ball, turned really white and floated to the top.

The only good thing about all of this... having no tub made me use the sauna for the first time since we got the tub. I missed it.

[hottubdan]

No worries and no hard feelings. Who knows... in a month I may be posting that it's back, but I'm going to go in positive and hope for the best. I have so much peroxide and peroxysan right now since they gave me another 8L on top of what I had already. Cost is nothing. Time, frustration, etc... I'll chalk it up as life experience. Sometimes you have to fail before you can succed.

It's cold this morning and I was out scrubbing the cover with a soft brush. The water keeps freezing. I think I'll wait until the sun comes around the house and it again this afternoon. I can't see how the heck anyone could change water in the winter no matter what chemical is used. Yikes!

Anywho... after hockey, I empty the tub, wipe it down, fill it up to rinse, empty again and then fill 'er up for use. Fingers crossed.

It was def amazing to watch this chemical do its thing. When we poured it in, the fluffy stuff instantly went into a ball, turned really white and floated to the top.

The only good thing about all of this... having no tub made me use the sauna for the first time since we got the tub. I missed it.

I suggest you switch to a sanitizing system. Even the Peroxysan site does not claim their product sanitizes the hot tub. That is why you have the mold. That is why it will return.

Enjoy your sauna.

[cramp11]

Thanks Dan... I am enjoying the sauna. Def a hell of lot easier/

It's been a week and we think we noticed a few things floating around the first day after their remedy. Thought maybe it was dead crap floating around... we just went with it. We had 3 ppl in the tub all week. (me twice, my wife once)

I changed the filter after the first week and this is floating around in the 2:1 mix of Peroxysan and water the filter was soaking in AFTER a blasted rinse.

I'm pretty sure this stuff is not dead.



So Peroxide/Peroxyacetic didn't kill this stuff and chlorine didn't kill this stuff... jolly...

[quantumchromodynamics]

So Peroxide/Peroxyacetic didn't kill this stuff and chlorine didn't kill this stuff... jolly...

All of the chlorine that you used was reduced (neutralized) by the high levels of peroxide. Therefore, you never really did shock the tub with chlorine.

[chem geek]

Cramp,

QCD is referring to the following in your earlier procedure shocking with chlorine:

After a month of trying to fight it (and a whole lot of Peroxysan) we decided to drain the tub. Before we did, we bought a chlorine shock and spiked the ppm to ???. (strip only goes to 10 ppm and it was very black)

Chlorine and hydrogen peroxide are not compatible (chlorine will get used up oxidizing hydrogen peroxide to oxygen), so the tub was, in effect, never really shocked with chlorine. Had you drained it first and then shocked with high levels of chlorine, that would have been different.

With a new tub, it may be a good idea to use a product such as Spa System Flush. Though a decontamination with high levels of chlorine usually works, a new tub can be in pretty bad shape due to leftover chemicals from manufacturing and from biofilms formed after the wet test since the spa is not dried out after a wet test.

[cramp11]

"you would need about 2.08 ppm of chlorine per 1 ppm of hydrogen peroxide to end up with a zero balance for each" was in another thread.

I bought a 1Kg bottle of Aquaruis Shock 2. Superchlorinate a 10,000L pool with 150g. I didn't weigh what I used, but the bottle is almost half gone so 400g to 500g was used. My tub is 1100L. Whatever peroxide was in the tub should have been neutralized with plenty of chlorine left. I added it in two stages. The initial pour foamed and made a gas (which was expected). When I added more, nothing happened.

If the chlorine level was zero, why did the test strip go really dark instead of just staying white like it does when I just have peroxide in the tub? I'm not trying to start an argument... I'm just trying to understand why this stuff won't die.

My wife is sending the pics to the company today to ask what to do now.

We used the tub last night and didn't see anything in the tub.

Edit : Here's a video... YouTube video (Please don't comment on youtube since we're sending this to the company)

[quantumchromodynamics]

You said

Our h2o2 ppm is about 400 right now.

and

My peroxide levels are at about 200 ppm right now.

You would need 832 ppm or 416 ppm of chlorine to neutralize the H2O2.

If the Aquarius 2 shock is dichlor, then the chlorine level would have only gone to 252 ppm.

Also, the cyanuric acid level would have gone to 230 ppm, which would have reduced the effectiveness of the chlorine.

If it is lithium hypochlorite, then the chlorine level would have only gone to 160 ppm.

What is the actual chemical in the Aquarius 2 shock?

[cramp11]

I just read through my recordings. My 400ppm level was after we emptied the tub and instantly saw white stuff in the tub. They had us dump tons of peroxysan in. Didn't do jack.

My levels were probably 200ppm when I tried the chlorine so I guess the chlorine didn't do anything except neutralize everything and make some lovely gas. Oops.

The active ingredient : Calcium hydrochlorite ... 65%.

So my wife got some feedback today... "The stuff floating around is dead. If it were alive, it would cling to things." He also said to get new filters so we don't recontaminate the tub. (the filters were soaking in the solution they gave us overnight) A bit of a contradiction. It's all dead, but get a new filter because it's not dead. When we poured that solution in they gave us, the stuff went into a ball, turned white and floated right to the top. Not fluffy, semi-transparent kleenax looking things.

Thought some of you might have found that funny.

Anywho... I put 15 cups of 35% peroxide in the tub the other day. I couldn't even get an accurate reading on the strip. Bubbles everywhere in the tub. We'll use it again once it's down to 200ppm again. At this rate, I'll be out of peroxide soon.

On a good note... snow last night. no wind... wicked hot tub experience. (since I'm a noob)

[quantumchromodynamics]

15 cups is 3549 milliliters. 278 milliliters = 100 ppm. Your level of H2O2 = 1,276 ppm.

Chlorine can keep a tub sanitized at 1 ppm. Hydrogen peroxide can't do it at 400 ppm. Case closed.

[cramp11]

15 cups is 3549 milliliters. 278 milliliters = 100 ppm. Your level of H2O2 = 1,276 ppm.

So jumping in the tub at 1276ppm probably wouldn't have felt good eh?

How did you come up with 278 ml = 100ppm? Is this based on my tub being 1100L? My wife and I have the debate about pouring in 1/4 cup per day vs 1 cup every 4 days. I personally don't see a difference, but 'they' want us to just add it every 4 days. Your thoughts?

After 2 refills, I'm still wishing we used a spa flush. Seems to be the smart thing to do no matter what chemical you use.

Just got out of the tub. I'll let you know how hockey goes later. I'm ready for a nap.

[Nitro]

Cramp, you do realize without a properly sanitized tub you risk serious infection to you and your family, not just white floaters. To me you sound like you're just playing games with your hot tub water, and aren't too concerned about it. I seriously recommend you start to follow the advice from the experts on this board, before you (or someone you love) gets seriously hurt.

[bart6453]

Cramp, you do realize without a properly sanitized tub you risk serious infection to you and your family, not just white floaters. To me you sound like you're just playing games with your hot tub water, and aren't too concerned about it. I seriously recommend you start to follow the advice from the experts on this board, before you (or someone you love) gets seriously hurt.

Unfortunately, I don't think Cramp wants any help.

Cramp, why don't you just give up on the non-EPA certified sanitation methods?

Seriously...this is not a rhetorical question...why?

Since past history is clearly the best indication of future performance....one would assume that peroxide is not going to work by your experience.

Give good old chlorine a try....and if you are still using the wife excuse as a crutch there can be only one answer to that. A. you are a wiener and can't talk good sense into your wife. or B. you are wiener and can't come clean that you really just want to use peroxide since you are a contrarian.

Good luck...see you in the ICU!

[quantumchromodynamics]

How did you come up with 278 ml = 100ppm? Is this based on my tub being 1100L?

1,000 liters of water has a mass of 1 million grams.

1 gram of (any chemical) in 1,000 liters of water = 1 part per million.

35 % hydrogen peroxide has a density of 1,130 grams per liter.

1,130 grams (.35) = 395.5 grams of hydrogen peroxide per liter.

253 milliliters of 35 % hydrogen peroxide contains 100 grams of hydrogen peroxide.

253 milliliters of 35 % hydrogen peroxide added to 1,000 liters of water = 100 ppm.

253 (1.1) = 278.

[chem geek]

Cramp,

If the wife is opposed to bleach, but not to chlorine, then use pool products with lithium hypochlorite (such as BioGuard Burn Out 35). It's a dry powder, but it is over 5 times as expensive as bleach. If you or your wife are opposed to any halogen product, so don't want either chlorine or bromine, then consider using Nature2 with MPS (a non-chlorine shock). The last EPA-approved alternative would be Baquacil/biguanide/PHMB, but this can also lead to white water mold after some time (usually a year or two) though this can be alleviated by using a Spa System Flush or heavy decontamination between every few refills.

Richard

[cramp11]

Unfortunately, I don't think Cramp wants any help.

Cramp, why don't you just give up on the non-EPA certified sanitation methods?

Seriously...this is not a rhetorical question...why?

Since past history is clearly the best indication of future performance....one would assume that peroxide is not going to work by your experience.

Give good old chlorine a try....and if you are still using the wife excuse as a crutch there can be only one answer to that. A. you are a wiener and can't talk good sense into your wife. or B. you are wiener and can't come clean that you really just want to use peroxide since you are a contrarian.

Good luck...see you in the ICU!

I believe that some people asked me to keep them up to date on my tub. I'm sharing it and am asking questions about the product I'm using.

I'm sure in the world people are using peroxide and/or peroxysan. Maybe they don't come on to boards like this for the obvious reason that no matter what, it gets bashed.

Why can't you accept that fact that I'm using Peroxysan until I choose to go a different route? Seriously... why? Let it go already. You don't need to call me a weiner or say that I can't talk sense into my wife. This isn't her decision... it's our decision.

My wife likes roses if you decide to visit the ICU. If it's me... bring beer.

-------------

quantumchromodynamics, excellent info. Thank you very much. I think I've been a little too aggressive with it. Yikes. Peroxysan is only 27%. I can do the math for it.

chem geek, Nature2 with MPS was something else we were reading about. I'm not what the MPS is, but a hockey buddy of mine uses Nature2 with chlorine in his pool. He seems to like it. Something we'll be considering down the road for sure.

[bart6453]

One thing about that white mold that we have not really touched on....and as a course of order......Just because it is in there does not mean it is alive.

You may want to do a culture to see if it really is alive.

It will not just disappear once you have a proper sanitation process in place.

To do a quick and dirty check, take a couple of mason jars and mix up some unflavored gelatin in them. I usually add about 1/3rd less water than the instructions when doing a culture. If you want to be super scientific, make sure to boil your jars and lids before you pour the gelatin in them...also boil the water for 10 minutes before mixing with the gelatin. Pour it in and put the lid on it as fast as possible. Then throw them in your refrigerator on their sides for an hour or so until set.

Next go out to your tub and grab some of the white mold....I would use a steel spoon that had been boiled with the water. Do it quick and throw a few of the fibrous hunks on the gelatin.

You really should do three...put mold samples on one, a water sample on one(use a cotton swab to apply water), and leave one unopened.

put them on your counter, preferably near some type of heat source...light bulb, on top of the refrigerator...etc.

In a day you should see some activity. If you unopened one is becoming active, your test is shot as you have a negative control becoming positive. You could do a control positive by having a 4th jar that you swab some foot cheese from between your toes(pretty much a guarantee of bacteria), and if that does not show any activity along with your 3 others...you have a positive control being negative, and again, your test is shot.

This is a super handy technique for lots of things.....and basically how they do it in laboratory procedures.

This is what I would do.......Not trying to be a jerk on here, but I think somewhere in the translation you have stopped actually trying to fix your hot tub issue.

[chem geek]

chem geek, Nature2 with MPS was something else we were reading about. I'm not what the MPS is, but a hockey buddy of mine uses Nature2 with chlorine in his pool. He seems to like it. Something we'll be considering down the road for sure.

MPS is potassium monopersulfate which is the primary oxidizing component in non-chlorine shock (such as SpaGuard Spa Shock, GLB Rendevous Activate, Leisure Time Renew, Robarb Spa Shok). When combined with Nature2 and hot spa temperatures (100-104F), it becomes effective enough to be a sanitizer. That combination of Nature2 with MPS at hot spa temps was approved by the EPA as a disinfectant (i.e. it passes EPA DIS/TSS-12 that is used for both pools and spas).

As for people using hydrogen peroxide, there certainly are some, just as there are some who have used Baquacil/biguanide/PHMB. However, if you look at pool forums, you will find entire sections with hundreds of people with bad experiences with Baqua in their pools and with no easy way to maintain the pools properly over the long-term (unlike using chlorine if the proper FC/CYA ratio is maintained). By the way, though Baquacil/biguanide/PHMB is the primary sanitizer in such systems, hydrogen peroxide is used as the oxidizer since Baqua is incompatible with chlorine/bromine/MPS. Unfortunately, the spa forums are not as full with members to the same extent as the over 20,000 members of The Pool Forum or the over 10,000 members of Trouble Free Pool, though this particular spa forum seems to be the most active. So the smaller number of reports from people who have used hydrogen peroxide and had problems is all you have to go on, assuming you avoid the commercial and obviously biased sites that sell products and would only report positive experiences rather than a statistical sampling.

All I can tell you is that hydrogen peroxide is not an EPA-approved disinfectant/sanitizer for use in pools or spas and the reason is that it simply does not kill bacteria quickly enough to pass the stringent requirements of DIS/TSS-12 I linked to above. That doesn't mean it's illegal to sell such products for use in residential pools or spas (though is not allowed by itself in commercial pools or spas based on most state regs), but it does mean that there can be nothing in the labeling or literature referring to (claiming or implying) sanitation, disinfection, killing bacteria, etc. If you look at the Peroxysan website, you will notice that they avoid making any such claims. Some hydrogen peroxide products can describe themselves as an EPA-registered pesticide (as shown here) which is less stringent than a disinfectant/sanitizer (algaecide products are typically registered as pesticides, but cannot be used alone for sanitation/disinfection). Peroxysan itself isn't even listed as a pesticide so can't even claim that EPA registration unless they share a common registration number.

Richard

[cramp11]

bart6453, great info. I'm beginning to believe that the stuff I found is dead. I put in a new filter last night and didn't find anything floating around in the filter solution this time. We haven't been able to use the tub the last couple of nights due to the weather. (winds are way too strong)

I guess when you detox a tub, you need to let the filter go. I just can't get the stuff off. I stuck the filter in the garage on nail. I'll let it sit out there for the winter. Maybe the stuff will shrivel up and fall off by spring. If not, I'll pitch it.

The tub has been crystal clear this week. *knock on wood*


chem geek, I know peroxysan hasn't passed the EPA DIS/TSS-12. They say they do pass, but can't afford to pay for the test. (uh huh...) The diff they say is they have Peracetic acid in their solution which Wikipedia says, "Peracetic acid can be used as a cooling tower water disinfect where it prevents bio film formation and effectively controls Legionella bacteria." The Sani-Cleen was just peroxide and peracetic acid, but at really high levels. I think it would have melted my skin.

Anywho... I'm just hoping to make it to the spring. I'm only two weeks into a fresh fill so it's too early to know anything yet.

[quantumchromodynamics]

Cramp, I would be interested to know what your concerns are about chlorine, and why you think that peroxide is a better choice.

I know that you have done a lot of research, and have given it much consideration. So, I'm sure that you have good reasons.

Thanks.

[cramp11]

I'm not anti chlorine or bromine. When we bought the tub, they threw in a case of Peroxysan with the tub and I snagged a 5 gallon pail from someone right after we filled the tub. That's a lot of chemicals I didn't want to waste.

We almost bought a hot tub years ago, but the dealer (another place) actually talked us out of it due to my eczema. It's not that bad, but he felt very strongly that the chemicals and heat would flare it up. We snagged a sauna instead (again, from somewhere else) I grew up with a sauna so I knew it was going to be fine.

When you read about chemicals online, most sites say, "Chlorine for the pool, bromine for the hotub"

I honestly didn't even know what we were getting when we bought the tub. I thought we were getting biguanide.

So... we're sticking because we have it. If it fails again, we'll move on (unless they give us a new tub and restock our supplies) I am somewhat nervous about switching and finding out I react to chlorine or bromine badly. I never had good experiences in pools as a kid. Rashes, hives, etc... probably just not a balanced pool/tub, but I'd hate to find out after I do a fresh fill.