Stubborn Problem With Staining - Need Your Help Please

[danomite]

I've only been a pool owner for 2 years now (this summer will be the 3rd summer), and i am having trouble with my fiberglass pool.

Last year, i started noticing stains around the steps and the return and especially in the spa area.

This year, I emptied the pool and refilled to when opening, since i thought it would help.

When i started adding chlorine, the stains got 10 times worse. The whole bottom of the pool was stained.

So I put in some muriatic acid, waited 24 hours, and everything came beautiful except for a few spots. Then I added a metal treatment, and the rest of the spots disappeared, and the pool has never been whiter!

I kept cleaning the pool while bringing the pH value back up, and 4 days later, the bottom started showing the stains everywhere as before. The spa as well.

I added more metal treatment, and the spa came clean, but the floor is still completely stained. So Im really at a loss, because I read a few posts that if cought early enough, when putting more metal treatment, the stains should go away.

Not in my case...

Now, here is a question: My little test kit tests for chlorine and pH. The problem is, while adding pH+, my test would always show a pH value of about 6.8

I got my water tested at the store, and the pH is at 7.6 and alkalinity is at 50. So could that be causing my pH test to always show 6.8?

I've started adding alka+ now to bring up the alkalinity.

Should I bring down my pH and try adding more metal treatment?

One more thing to note is that the floor has staining throughout, except in the middle. In the middle, there is a clean line that runs from one end of the pool to the other in a straight line where the bottom drain is. Do you think I simply have a bad circulation problem? Is there something I can do? I don't want to invest in expensive equipment if it won't help.

Also, my source water has been tested and has no metals in it. What could be causing all these problems? I have a lot of earth and grass that flies into the pool at the beginning of the season, and sand from the pave around the pool falls into the sand as well. Can this be it?

When i had the stains gone, the pool looked better than when i had it first installed, so I really hope I can get it to look like that again and for good.

I hope you can help me.

Thank you very much!

[Pool-newb]

I'm no pool professional here but I'm on line, and I had similar problems.

Previous owner just kept throwing pucks at the water without monitoring pH. That resulted in a completly rusted out heater and iorn piping, which in turn sent iron into the water and as stains on liner.

Because the liner is approaching the limit of it's useful life, we assumed we would just replace it in the next year or two.

But through this forum and a friend, I happened on ascorbic acid.

You can get it in granulate form at the pool place for and pay a lot of money for it, or order it online cheaper. Either way, I did two double doses about 2 and a half weeks ago, and the liner is bright clean. The change was literally before my eyes - I took before and after photos with seven minutes between the two and it was amazing.

After that, I put in a sequestrant. My pool store can't find any metal in my water either and I'm still confused if that's because the metals are gone, or just sequestered so they can't cause problems.

I'm also raising my pH and cl levels only slowly because I don't want to precipitate anything.

Read the instructions on the package, check the forum here and talk with people. it's amazing what this stuff can do.

[danomite]

Thanks for your help.

The muriatic acid I added is a little like ascorbic acid, except it's not as fast, and could not work as well. Fortunately for me, it did the trick.

I also raised my pH slowly, but the stains came back 4 days later and adding more metal treatment no longer helps.

Maybe my pH needs to be dropped to add more metal treatment? Does anyone know why my pH reading is so different from the store's reading?

Thanks a lot for the help.

[Pool-newb]

Sheesh - it's been well over two weeks since I did the ascorbic acid and the stains are starting to reappear. Fortunately not in huge areas as a brownish tint, but now there are several areas with small to medium specks of rust. Looks like there is dirt laying in those areas. And to top it all off, having been slow with the chlorine recently has given me an algae problem - not serious but a pain just the same.

When I put in the ascorbic acid I still had a fairly high level of chlorine so some of the acid was wasted, but I can tell you it was amazing to watch the stains disappear. What I will probably try now is ascorbic acid in a sock and spot treat the stains when the cl is low. But i've just shocked it and may need to wait a while to see if things are still ok.

For the pH reading I would recommend bringing your test kit and do your test there then watch them do theirs. I've had some really funny events with my pool store - good guys but not as "excited" about pool stuff as those of us here. In fact, today I got a 15 ppm reading on my cya from them when I know it has to be higher - around 60, which is what I also get.

So several possibilities:

1) they didn't really measure the pH, just gave you a number because they were to busy to be bothered or

2) they grabbed the wrong bottle or miscounted the drops

3) they have old, bad or contaminated chemicals or containers

4) You hae old, bad or contaminated chemicals

For pH and a rough guesstimate of chlorine in the water I use an electronic ORP/pH meter, then back it up with my test kit, then take a sample to the store.

[Pool-newb]

Here's what finally happened with my pool.

As I saw those small rust spots I was also watching the free chlorine and combined chlorine very closely.

Well I had an underlying level of cc so I shocked several times untill the cc went to zero.

Coincidentally, the staining reappeared over the entire pool at the same time - within a few hours.

Here's what I think happened (my pH has been fairly low ~6.9-7.3 the entire time):

- Ascorbic acid first consumed the chlorine and then took the stains off the walls and put the metal into the water.

- The sequestrate kept the metal suspended but also consumed chlorine creating combined chlorine.

- My plumbing failed and I didn't maintain a sanitizing level of cl for several days

- After the plumbing fix I saw the cc and kept shocking to remove it.

- the shocking finally removed the sequestrate and that sent the stains back to the

So I retreated with ascorbic acid, waiting until just after the cl hit zero to put it in. Again the results were amazing - by the time I got all the way around the pool with the powder, the stains were already disappearing from the spot where I started.

I also used much less ascorbic acid this time around.

I will now

- Maintain a sanitizing level of cl

- ignore a low level of cc but monitor it anyway

- add a sequestrate weekly

And a some point in the distant future I will replace the liner and therefore all the water and maybe add an SWG.

Did you ever get your pool measurements straight?

How is your pool now?

[daisy]

I have been having a similar problem. From doing much research, I have learned that the chlorine level and ph must be very low before treating with the asborbic acid. After treating, slowly increase the chlorine and ph. If you have a heater, make sure your alkalinity and calcium are appropriate. I'm not sure what that level is for fiberglass. I know for vinyl, alkalinity should be 140 and calcium between 250 and 400. It sounds like you have iron. The pool guy told me to place a vitamin c tablet on the stain, if the surface immediately turned white, it is iron. I read on many sites that Jacks Magic Pool stain remover is amazing. Haven't tried it yet but am going to soon. I do have some experience with iron in water. We have a well that has a high iron content (did not fill the pool with this water). We have to shock our well periodically with chlorine. I hate it. My water turns orange and takes about 3 weeks to return to normal. I can not wash clothes at home during this period. We have since put a water softener on which controls the iron levels. Iron and chlorine do not like each other. Let me know if you find out anything different.

Here's what finally happened with my pool.

As I saw those small rust spots I was also watching the free chlorine and combined chlorine very closely.

Well I had an underlying level of cc so I shocked several times untill the cc went to zero.

Coincidentally, the staining reappeared over the entire pool at the same time - within a few hours.

Here's what I think happened (my pH has been fairly low ~6.9-7.3 the entire time):

- Ascorbic acid first consumed the chlorine and then took the stains off the walls and put the metal into the water.

- The sequestrate kept the metal suspended but also consumed chlorine creating combined chlorine.

- My plumbing failed and I didn't maintain a sanitizing level of cl for several days

- After the plumbing fix I saw the cc and kept shocking to remove it.

- the shocking finally removed the sequestrate and that sent the stains back to the

So I retreated with ascorbic acid, waiting until just after the cl hit zero to put it in. Again the results were amazing - by the time I got all the way around the pool with the powder, the stains were already disappearing from the spot where I started.

I also used much less ascorbic acid this time around.

I will now

- Maintain a sanitizing level of cl

- ignore a low level of cc but monitor it anyway

- add a sequestrate weekly

And a some point in the distant future I will replace the liner and therefore all the water and maybe add an SWG.

Did you ever get your pool measurements straight?

How is your pool now?

[Pool-newb]

pH should be low when beginning the ascorbic acid treatment, chlorine should be as low as you can get it but when I started my first treatment it was at about 8 ppm. That wasn't a big problem; the ascorbic acid just burned off the rest of the chlorine so I lost that much ascorbic acid doing the stain removal.

I would be very interested in understanding the effect of the water softener on the well water.

Are you saying that it removes iron? So you don't have any iron stains in the clothes you wash after shocking the well?

If so, I wonder if I could "borrow" a water softener and run my pool water through it a couple of times to remove the iron?

Your pool guy was spot on regarding the vitamin c pills. A citrus fruit also works well; cut it in half and stick the cut half on the stain and let it sit for a few minutes. I tried this with half a grapefruit that I had already eaten most of and it left a reappy nice clean white spot on the tan stairs.

I think after my experiences I just need to be very careful about maintaining my cl levels; not too high that it forces the metals to precipitate but not so low that a shocking becomes necessary.

[daisy]

The water softener releases some sort of salt into the water. The softener is not a one shot deal. We have it connected all the time except for when the water is shocked. We have to turn it off then just because the large amount of iron and orange water has to run through the system or it will clog the system. The softener is more of a maintenance rather than a quick fix. We have to shock once a year just to sanitize the well lines and holding tank. It is kind of pricey to use for a pool fix. I believe our system ran about $2ooo.oo.

As far a chlorine levels in the pool, I think the ideal situation is to use the treatment that traps the iron and then removes it. As long as you have chlorine interacting with iron, you will always have orange or yellow. I think that it is very difficult to maintain very low chlorine levels in a pool when you have really hot sunny days that eat the chlorine quickly and furthermore, if you have a party with a lot of people in the pool.....sanitation takes precedence over yellow. I know at one point in time my chlorine level was very low and I had a dead mouse in my skimmer box overnight. I had kids with ear infections shortly after. Not sure if the 2 were related but the doc said that they very well could be. Gotta just get rid of the iron. I'm going to try that Jack's magic stain remover. I'll let you know how it works.

pH should be low when beginning the ascorbic acid treatment, chlorine should be as low as you can get it but when I started my first treatment it was at about 8 ppm. That wasn't a big problem; the ascorbic acid just burned off the rest of the chlorine so I lost that much ascorbic acid doing the stain removal.

I would be very interested in understanding the effect of the water softener on the well water.

Are you saying that it removes iron? So you don't have any iron stains in the clothes you wash after shocking the well?

If so, I wonder if I could "borrow" a water softener and run my pool water through it a couple of times to remove the iron?

Your pool guy was spot on regarding the vitamin c pills. A citrus fruit also works well; cut it in half and stick the cut half on the stain and let it sit for a few minutes. I tried this with half a grapefruit that I had already eaten most of and it left a reappy nice clean white spot on the tan stairs.

I think after my experiences I just need to be very careful about maintaining my cl levels; not too high that it forces the metals to precipitate but not so low that a shocking becomes necessary.

[rhynerj]

The Reason your pH levels vary between home and the store is tha pH changes over time. When you do a test for environmental compliance (my background) it has to be measured within 15 minutes of when it is removed from the source. High cl will drop out Iron and other metals so you should minimize the amount of free Cl to the lowest level that will keep the pool sanitized...

[Johnbear]

The muriatic acid I added is a little like ascorbic acid, except it's not as fast, and could not work as well. Fortunately for me, it did the trick.

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[zooxpoork]

Souds perfect to me. Is there already a bow light there. If so, be careful not to wrap up the wires with the hole saw. If there isnt, are you able to fish the wires with the tank and foam?