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Circulation Pump Gets Hot And Stops


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#1 sherman66

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 05:54 AM

Hi!

I have a sundance spa with a Flomaster xp2 circulation pump, my problem is that the motor gets very hot and stops after a while, I have removed the pump from the spa and runed it in my garage and then it seems to work good, but when i remount it into the spa somtimes it just sounds "hmmmmm..." and wont start and if I in this position helps the motor by pulling the shaft it starts but gets very hot after a while.

I have checked the volute and it runs very smoth so it cant be any problem there (i guess).

Could it be the capicator om the motor?

Hope you could understand my english (im from sweden....)



#2 wylekioti

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 06:25 AM

This does not sound to me like the capacitor, on most electric motors the capacitor is used to start the motor and should not cause it to heat up once running and make it stop. This sounds more like bearing or thrust issue on shaft causing pole grounding (armature touching magnets or metal) in motor when under load or the armature is shorted. I would say it is time for a new pump assembly. Rebuilding might be an option but might not be as satisfactory or economical especially with the heat damage.

#3 JAMES THE HOT TUB GUY

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Posted 23 August 2008 - 07:38 AM

QUOTE(wylekioti @ Aug 23 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This does not sound to me like the capacitor, on most electric motors the capacitor is used to start the motor and should not cause it to heat up once running and make it stop. This sounds more like bearing or thrust issue on shaft causing pole grounding (armature touching magnets or metal) in motor when under load or the armature is shorted. I would say it is time for a new pump assembly. Rebuilding might be an option but might not be as satisfactory or economical especially with the heat damage.

what year and what model sundance spa do you have?

#4 sherman66

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Posted 24 August 2008 - 11:40 PM

QUOTE(JAMES THE HOT TUB GUY @ Aug 23 2008, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE(wylekioti @ Aug 23 2008, 10:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This does not sound to me like the capacitor, on most electric motors the capacitor is used to start the motor and should not cause it to heat up once running and make it stop. This sounds more like bearing or thrust issue on shaft causing pole grounding (armature touching magnets or metal) in motor when under load or the armature is shorted. I would say it is time for a new pump assembly. Rebuilding might be an option but might not be as satisfactory or economical especially with the heat damage.

what year and what model sundance spa do you have?


Hi!

I think its an Sundance Cameo from 2006 or 2005 (it came with the house) the pump is an Flomaster XP2 with an Emerson motor labeld "model K55mykhf-9557".

Thankful for any help!

#5 sherman66

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:24 PM

Some new info: I have now removed the pump from the spa and now when I try to start it dry in my garage it just gives this "hmmm..." sound and wont start, but if I gives it a little help by pushing on the shaft it starts running, but I think it runs pretty slow, does this give anyone a clue???

#6 ps558

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 12:54 PM

QUOTE(sherman66 @ Aug 25 2008, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Some new info: I have now removed the pump from the spa and now when I try to start it dry in my garage it just gives this "hmmm..." sound and wont start, but if I gives it a little help by pushing on the shaft it starts running, but I think it runs pretty slow, does this give anyone a clue???



The start switch is sticking in the motor. It is most likely not letting the start cap in the circuit to give it the boost needed. The best thing to do is just reolace the motor with new seal. If you do buy a new pump Aqua-Flo products come with a 5 year pro rated warranty Seal not included in warranty

#7 sherman66

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 01:04 PM

Thank for your tip ps558! But what seal do you mean? and another intresting thing is the warranty my spa is 2 and a half year old and sundance gives 2 year warranty so it wont cover my pump, but if I buy a new pump I gets 5 year warranty?? how come i dont have that warranty on the orginal pump? or have I ??

#8 ps558

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Posted 25 August 2008 - 04:57 PM

QUOTE(sherman66 @ Aug 25 2008, 05:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank for your tip ps558! But what seal do you mean? and another intresting thing is the warranty my spa is 2 and a half year old and sundance gives 2 year warranty so it wont cover my pump, but if I buy a new pump I gets 5 year warranty?? how come i dont have that warranty on the orginal pump? or have I ??



I mean the pump seal.
I would suggest to call Aqua-Flo from this link http://www.geckoalliance.com/aquaflo/.
They can verify the warranty on the pump, do not tell anything about the spa manufactures warranty as they might deny warranty. Most of the time they will want the labels off the pump to send a new one. At 2 years you might get a free one or 60% off thier cost

#9 sherman66

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Posted 26 August 2008 - 11:38 AM

Today i installed a new cap on the motor and i got it running, but I still have a bad feeling that it will stop soon.... After about 2 hour running it got pretty hot, but still working good, I guess I hav to see if its working tomorow.
I was thinking about 2 things maybe you guys could help me with, should the circ pump run all the time 24/7 under normal conditions or does it stop some times?? and how hot is the circ motor suposed to get? should it not be hot at all or what?


I also sent geckoalliance an mail to se what they think about possible warranty

#10 sherman66

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 08:34 AM

Good news! The pump has been running perfectly normal in 4 days now, and i spooke to the a swedish dealer who said that it is normal that the circ pump gets pretty hot, so I guess Ive solved it! Thank for all advice!

#11 wylekioti

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 08:06 PM

QUOTE(sherman66 @ Aug 29 2008, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good news! The pump has been running perfectly normal in 4 days now, and i spooke to the a swedish dealer who said that it is normal that the circ pump gets pretty hot, so I guess Ive solved it! Thank for all advice!


Warning. If the capacitor blows again, there is something wrong in the motor. When the motor stalls, this can blow the capacitor. Not being able to see what you are seeing, makes it hard to really understand what happened. But, it sounded like the motor stalled and that would have damaged the capacitor, not the capacitor failing causing the motor to not start. Wonder if you could have gotten warrenty? but now that you opened it up.. that may not be an option now. Good Luck!

#12 sherman66

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 12:14 PM

But could the motors behavior really have impact on the capacitor? As I understand it the capicator on a one phase motor has two tasks to take care of, the first is to provide extra power to the motor at startup and the second is to dislocate the phase to "fool" the the motor that there is 3 phases, the only way I see that the motor could damage the cap is if it gets extremly hot and in that way "blows" it, or am I wrong??

#13 wylekioti

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 09:22 PM

QUOTE(sherman66 @ Aug 30 2008, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But could the motors behavior really have impact on the capacitor? As I understand it the capicator on a one phase motor has two tasks to take care of, the first is to provide extra power to the motor at startup and the second is to dislocate the phase to "fool" the the motor that there is 3 phases, the only way I see that the motor could damage the cap is if it gets extremly hot and in that way "blows" it, or am I wrong??

There is a mechanical switch triggered by low rpm which connects the capacitor. Normal operation, simply stated this jump starts the motor, once the motor is up to speed the cap. is out of the circuit. If the motor is stalled or is running below this switch speed, the cap. stays connected and can overheat causing damage. On this type motor the cap. does not emulate 3 phase while running. Once the motor speed is up (this does not take long) the cap. is out of the circuit. Depending on the quality of cap., I have seen a motor slowed for less that 15 sec due to excess load (you could hear the switch kick) and it damaged the capacitor. I am sure a cheep cap. is used in a pump motor due to the fact normally sees no major loading on start up. I am not familiar with what if any differences there are in motors here in the US vs where you live with the change of voltage and frequency. But I would think that they compensate for that in how it is wound more than changing cap use.

Hope this helps. How hot is this thing running? Can you put your hand on it (kind of a rule of thumb thing for about 150 degrees F(oh you are C so that would be like around 70C off the top of my head))? If not. I would say that is too hot and there is other problems. Now that you replaced the cap. it may be better quality and not burn out if overloaded as easy. Even though it is running, if it is running hot, it is costing you extra in electricity.
Say a good motor is 90% efficient so only 10% of the power turns to heat, but if your motor is running hot then the energy turning to heat may be more like 30% or more so to run the motor is going to cost extra to do the same job.

Just had a thought, there are a few places here that repair motors. I wonder if you found someplace there that could bench test it and what it would cost just to make sure you are good to go. I know you don't want to have to keep messing with it.


#14 sherman66

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 12:27 AM

Thank for your excelent description of this motor, now things get more and more clear for me, regarding the heat on the motor I can hold my hand on it for quite a while I guess its like 55-60 degrees celsius hot (130-140 degrees F) witch I thought was to hot.

I had the motor at a motor company and they had a quick look at it and mesured the cap and said that it was broken, but they didnt bech tested it, hopefully the cap that i bought from them was a better one then the original.

I was thinking about one thing, is it a good idea to amp measure the motor in when its in service, to find out how much power its consuming and compare that with the specification of the pump?


#15 wylekioti

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:51 AM

QUOTE(sherman66 @ Sep 1 2008, 01:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thank for your excelent description of this motor, now things get more and more clear for me, regarding the heat on the motor I can hold my hand on it for quite a while I guess its like 55-60 degrees celsius hot (130-140 degrees F) witch I thought was to hot.

I had the motor at a motor company and they had a quick look at it and mesured the cap and said that it was broken, but they didnt bech tested it, hopefully the cap that i bought from them was a better one then the original.

I was thinking about one thing, is it a good idea to amp measure the motor in when its in service, to find out how much power its consuming and compare that with the specification of the pump?


For peace of mind, that might be the best way to go. If the amp draw and the rpm are at spec the motor should be ok. The only thing that will not be known for sure is if the start switch was sticking like ps558 suggested. (you might have unstuck it when you dropped the motor on your work bench or something)

Or, let it run and if it acts up again, then don't mess with it, just replace it. Enjoy your tub and don't stress over the pump!

#16 1bad88

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 04:41 PM

Sherman66,

Is the pump still running after the capacitor replacement? Which cap did you replace, the one on the top or the one on the back of the motor?

-J




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