biggz

I have to agree with "filbotte", I own a Keys tub and have gotten very good use since puchasing it. I think it's a nice tub for someone who's never owned a tub and not sure if they would even like tubbing once puchased. They'll learn all the other things that go along with tubbing like water chemistry etc. It isn't a high end tub by any stretch of the imagination and any one that implies this would be misrepresenting the product. It is a good entry level hot tub that offers a reasonable amount of jets and moderate sitting arrangements. I also paid a total of $3600 with tax included and have been awarded the opportunity to soak daily as a result. It isn't well insulated but my cost are not high because I live in a warm climate. But if you live north of the Mason Dixon. You'd probably be better off to put another $2 - 3 grand and buy something else.

Congratulations, Post some pics when you can. Soak long and prosper.

Bo, what kind of drink is that called? Is that a Marg? It sounds gooooooood.

Would you really be willing to watch a full length movie thats 2 hours long sitting in 102 -103 degree water? Let me know where you live so I can bring some potatoes and carrots. Just a joke that's all.

lys, It takes a big person to admit when they're wrong. My hat's off too you. Yeah, I've eaten a little crow in my life. As I said before they're great little tubs for people new to tubbing and the 3rd largest manufacturer in the USA, so they do have some experience in what their doing. You may need to add some insulation since you live in a colder area, but there plenty of topics on the board that have excellent examples on how to do it. It will give your husband something to do since you did buy him such a nice holiday treat. Please post pics when you have time. We'll be here for you when you start to have water issues. Post them on the Hot tub chemistry side. Those guys that frequently post over there are amazing with the information they share. I hope your family emergency has been resolved for the best. Soak long and prosper.

Tiny, you know that's a good idea.

Stallion, Although you have a point that the products of the Chempura Corporation could be produced in China, I find it odd that you have not produced one shred of evidence to this claim. Yet I have given you and the forum evidence that the company is American based. If you take the time to go to their site you will see that this company goes back too the 1800s. You will also read that this company has affiliations with Uniroyal chemical to name a few. You probably have products in your house that this company directly or indirectly manufactured. Yet you haven't shown the proof. Why? A new user asked a simple question and he wants a honest unbiased answer. Not "jibba jabba". If you don't have the facts why make the statement? Has your obvious hatred for box stores clouded your sense of realism? Show the forum the Chinese connection. In fact why did you bring up China in the first place? Are you attempting to appeal to the forums and posters sense of nationalism? If that's the case this is the wrong site for that type of response. Chempura is an American company that manufactures their products. If they are sending the manufacturing duties to China then what are the 5600 employees doing? And as for the tabs, what makes you think theirs are bad and yours are better? What product did you sell your customer in your store and I'll gladly research that company to see where there tabs are manufactured. I'll also research their sales to see how much better their products are selling then the ones that I'm talking about. This "Big Box" bashing is pure nonsense. Your suppose to be a professional. Act like it. Biggz First off I made a statement that when I have the time "if" it applies to this company I will post it and I hope your apology will be as rapid and heart felt as your criticism. It is a very funny thing that happens on these boards people who are not in the spa industry love to throw stones at those who are when they (I) make a statement about something that we or again (I) know to be true. Now never did I say they were using chems produced in China but I will find out.. BUT what was actually said by me was they may be...I was not responding directly to the particular company your referenced.....NOW you mention the original question asked by the poster and they wanted an you mentioned an unbiased opinion....First I think my opinion is actually far more unbiased than the one you hold....You know nothing about me or what I recommend on a daily basis...Chem geek mentions baking soda.....I tell customers each week who into my store come to go and buy a 12lb bag at Sam's Club for 6 bucks and save some money of course this comes at a direct cost to me to do this but it is what I would do myself and unlike you , I am putting my money where my mouth is but I feel it is the right thing to do...now should someone want only to raise PH or Alk than I point to another product that we carry that will only raise one but for the most part I recommend the baking soda...I also try and bring in items that after researching I feel offer the best value for the dollar spent...I am not go to get into all of the examples as I feel they would tedious....But what I do know that is factual is that as a whole the products we carry are better than the big box stuff and the proof is the people who try both and come back to me and tell me they can see an difference. You asked me to me professional I ask you to be a grown up and look into to something instead just jumping on the dealer bashing the big box bandwagon...that's is such an easy way out for those who want to toss a big net over an entire industry when they lack any genuine insights.... Tell me Biggz do you use suave shampoo ? or do you buy something you feel is better and if so why and how is it better... If your a man do you wear Old Spice, Brutt, High karate or something from a dept store like say Nordstroms that costs 10 to 15 times as much....If your a woman do you buy your make up at walgreen or again a store like Nordstroms......and if not WHY ?......because there is a difference Stallion, I'm not hear to chuck stones at you or any dealer. I only asked you to back up your claim. You didn't say they were produced in China. Here's what you said, Stallion "I think it is reasonable to say that chemicals in general that you purchase at a pool and spa store will be generally better than those at a big box store. There is a credible reason as to why. Most of your big box chems come from China and are stored many times in the direct sun which depletes the usable chem inside by as much as half. This weekend a customer came into our store as they were doing a water change and they told me they had tried chems from wal mart and could tell the difference that they had to add more to get the same results. I think how ever that brand to brand there is not much difference." The reason that I made my post is Walmart, which you mentioned in your post sells the Aqua Chem product line. I'm sorry if you were offended or embarrassed when I pointed out that the company that makes Aqua Chem is one of the big 3 chemical companies in the US. and not China. I don't know you and to be honest was surprised to see you make a statement that could be so easily checked. You said the chems come from China. I said they don't. I've offered proof. All I ask is that you do the same. I'm not hear to make enemies of the dealers. Without the dealers there wouldn't be an industry. But I am a user with some experience and when someone new ask a question that I think I can answer I try to offer balance. If you prove that Aqua chem that's sold in Walmart makes their chems in China. I will offer my apology.

Pathfinder, I don't understand why you try to imply that my reading comprehension is lacking. I also would like you to explain why you implied I had little experience using chemicals. Lets go back to the fourth post that Stallion made. He said chemicals sold at "Big Box" stores were made in China. In the fifth post I posted that I used Aqua Chem Dichlor chemicals purchased at Walmart and found them to be good products. I also stated that chemical like liquid chlorine and Poolperfect/Phosfree were purchased at the local pool supplier because they were fresher, but using common bleach and baking soda would give a user favorable results. I also provided a link showing that Aqua Chem was a company owned by Chempura that is an American company. I never attempted to bash dealers since they do get my business for some product that they sell. Until that point there was no mention of tabs. The sixth post Richard explained that there were other options as I stated using common bleach, baking soda etc. and mentioned the use of tabs. In the seventh post Stallion replied that the company may be American but the products could be made in China and suggested to look at the binders in the tabs because they were different. In the tenth post Richard explained the difference in binders alluding to the difference not being a big deal. But at this point we were discussing Trichlor tabs and the differences. In the eleventh post I still wanted to know where Stallion was getting his information since that wasn't addressed and why would he make that statement. In the thirteenth post you joined the conversation. Here's what you wrote, Pathfinder "I will jump in on the tablet issue. Most tablets you find from your Walmart,HD,Canadian Tire, etc... are made by the big chem companies that make them for dealers. The difference is quality of the tablet. The big box stores are made with extra fillers and binders. When these tabs are pressed they are no where near as firm as what you will buy from a dealer. If you opened up a bucket of tablets from a dealer i.e. Sani Marc or Bio Guard and a bucket from a discount store and compare how many broken tabs are in each. You will also notice how easily the lesser priced tabs crumble. Now I cant say the same for powder chems, they are what they are. I know that Walmart is not cheaper than me if someone wants a 50lbs bag of sodium bi carb or soda ash. On certain items a dealer is more expensive not because they want bigger profits but the quality is just better." My response was Biggz 'Pathfinder', I'll agree that the tabs from the "big box" may have a few broken tablets but the results are still the same in terms of water quality and to imply that they are not is not being fair to a new user. As I pointed out, on Chempura's website they manufacture BioGuard and Spa Guard for dealers and Aqua Chem, Pool Time and Spa Time for Mass merchants. see link: http://www.chemtura.com/corporate/v/index....nextfmt=default To say that they are made in China without evidence is careless and only leads to lack of credibility. That is unfortunate since we all come here for straight talk from the professionals and people that have experience with various products. The fact is that tablets can't be used in a spa anyway so again what's the difference in diclor from Walmart or a dealer? I'd venture to say little to none." At that point this was your first attack although I don't know why. Pathfinder "Since when are tablets not allowed in a spa??? Just shows you dont know that much to be making claims. It is fair to say water quality is not equal when buying the cheaper tabs. 11 yrs of testing water and customers complaining to me after they switched to the cheaper brand tells me that as well. If you fully read my post I never said dry chems like di-chlor were different. I said "they are what they are" Im sure if you got to talking with a rep from Chemtura you will find not things are created equal." Now, I'm not a super sensitive person, but I don't understand where the remark of " "Since when are tablets not allowed in a spa??? Just shows you dont know that much to be making claims." Were you attempting to make me look foolish with that remark? We were discussing trichlor tabs. You seem to be implying from what I gather that your putting or recommending the use of trichor in a spa. Not me. You also chose to edited my remarks that was addressed to Stallion about proving that the chemicals from the Big Box stores were made in China. Why did you do that? In the eighteenth post I asked if you recommend using tabs in your customers spas, since you implied that you could. Here's the Post Biggz "I don't claim to be an expert. Do you recommend putting triclor tabs in your customers spas? That is what we're talking about. And why are you trying to change the subject that it was alleged that the products sold at "big box" stores particularly chemicals are made in China. I've owned a pool for several years and only complained to the local pool supplier when I bought my first pool 16 years ago. Stay own the subject that it was claimed that those chemicals are made in China. In fact, you can use common bleach and baking soda to maintain a pool or spa for that matter. On your last point, I never disagreed with you regarding "powder chemicals as you put it". If you do recommend putting trichlor tabs in your customers spas, please enlighten the forum on how this is done. Your attempt to placate my post is useless to the topic thats been discussed since "newtotubbing" asked the original question." I specifically asked you the question of why are you trying to change the subject of chemicals being made in China because you chose to conveniently edit it out of your response. I know Stallion made the comment. That was the discussion before you entered the conversation. Again, I ask you why? In the twenty first post you tried to attack my credibility again, by responding Pathfinder "Biggz, i wish you would read better. I never said anything about chems coming from China.If you read closely Stallion made that post not me. Second where did tri-chlor tabs come from in all this conversation besides from Chem geek. In Canada you wont find any big box store carrying the same lines as a pool & spa store. When it comes to pucks and tablets there are differences. You guys can read all you want but years of dealing with this issue I know there is a difference. When it comes to your basic chlorine powders, alk, ph & calcium increasers and ph- Its mainly all the same. I have no idea if some of the bulk stuff is coming from China & dont care. I deal with Sani Marc products which are made in Canada. When it comes to liquids and specialty products, bulk stores cant hold a candle to dealer lines." Now to rap this up I hope that you see that I never said any of the things that you alleged that I said. I read quite a bit and follow common conversation very well. I also try to stay on the topics at hand. If Stallion made the comment that those chemicals are made in China, he needs to show the proof as I did showing that Chempura is an American Company thats sell to both dealers and Big Box store. I do appreciate to dialog but find offense when someone tries to deliberately misconstrue my words.

Richard, what about water quality? Would it be the same?

Sorry, Dr. Spa, I'll just say I agree to disagree and repost a kinder response. I don't claim to be an expert. Do you recommend putting triclor tabs in your customers spas? That is what we're talking about. And why are you trying to change the subject that it was alleged that the products sold at "big box" stores particularly chemicals are made in China. I've owned a pool for several years and only complained to the local pool supplier when I bought my first pool 16 years ago. Stay own the subject that it was claimed that those chemicals are made in China. In fact, you can use common bleach and baking soda to maintain a pool or spa for that matter. On your last point, I never disagreed with you regarding "powder chemicals as you put it". If you do recommend putting trichlor tabs in your customers spas, please enlighten the forum on how this is done. Your attempt to placate my post is useless to the topic thats been discussed since "newtotubbing" asked the original question.

Coulda' swore I deleted this post already.... Note from moderator. We now have a zero tolerance for personal attacks and this message will replace any posts containing such. This post contained a personal attack or derogatory remark and has been removed! The original poster is more than welcome to rephrase and repost their message, however if the personal attacks continue they will be banned"

'Pathfinder', I'll agree that the tabs from the "big box" may have a few broken tablets but the results are still the same in terms of water quality and to imply that they are not is not being fair to a new user. As I pointed out, on Chempura's website they manufacture BioGuard and Spa Guard for dealers and Aqua Chem, Pool Time and Spa Time for Mass merchants. see link: http://www.chemtura.com/corporate/v/index....nextfmt=default To say that they are made in China without evidence is careless and only leads to lack of credibility. That is unfortunate since we all come here for straight talk from the professionals and people that have experience with various products. The fact is that tablets can't be used in a spa anyway so again what's the difference in diclor from Walmart or a dealer? I'd venture to say little to none.

Stallion, Although you have a point that the products of the Chempura Corporation could be produced in China, I find it odd that you have not produced one shred of evidence to this claim. Yet I have given you and the forum evidence that the company is American based. If you take the time to go to their site you will see that this company goes back too the 1800s. You will also read that this company has affiliations with Uniroyal chemical to name a few. You probably have products in your house that this company directly or indirectly manufactured. Yet you haven't shown the proof. Why? A new user asked a simple question and he wants a honest unbiased answer. Not "jibba jabba". If you don't have the facts why make the statement? Has your obvious hatred for box stores clouded your sense of realism? Show the forum the Chinese connection. In fact why did you bring up China in the first place? Are you attempting to appeal to the forums and posters sense of nationalism? If that's the case this is the wrong site for that type of response. Chempura is an American company that manufactures their products. If they are sending the manufacturing duties to China then what are the 5600 employees doing? And as for the tabs, what makes you think theirs are bad and yours are better? What product did you sell your customer in your store and I'll gladly research that company to see where there tabs are manufactured. I'll also research their sales to see how much better their products are selling then the ones that I'm talking about. This "Big Box" bashing is pure nonsense. Your suppose to be a professional. Act like it. Biggz

I with limited information certainly wouldn't want to dispute a industry professional, but I use Aqua Chem Dichor and occasionally other Aqua Chem products (clarifier,PH up and Down) all bought at the local Walmart and see no difference in the results. There are some product that I only purchase from the pool supplier. The liquid chlorine in pool stores tend to be fresher since the turn over is much more. Products like "PoolPerfect /Phosfree are not sold at Walmart so I buy that a the pool store as well however when you consider that a spa can be successfully maintained with common bleach and baking soda it becomes obvious that even the liquid chlorine sold at Walmart or other "Big Box" outlets will probably give you successful results. Oh by the way Aqua Chem is a subsidiary of Biolab which also makes commercial pool products that are marketed as Chemtura. They also make Bioguard, Bayrol, Hydrotech, Spaguard, etc and are based in Lawrenceville Ga. Here's their link for your review. http://www.biolabinc.com/index3.html I'm not sure but it doesn't look like their a Chinese company to me. Did I mention that there also sold at more cost effective prices.

soakme, You obviously have experience with electrical wiring. Here's the link to wiring the tub from the Keys pre-delivery documents. Go to page 8 to see the wiring. Maybe you'll be able to see something that will make sense of this situation. http://www.keysbackyard.com/files/spapredelguide.pdf I hope you find something. I'm too scare too fool around with electricity myself