Spa God

Marquis stuff is good. It was on my short list for a dealership, along with Master, and a few other lesser brands... For me it Must have the holy trinity... Balboa controls and heating system, Waterways jets and fittings, and Icynene insulation... there is a very good reason these guys are expensive components and been around the longest... Having spent 20+ years in this game I have manufactured, designed, and supplied hot tubs and swim spas, including dealing at the cheaper end including supplying Costco and the largest mass merchants in the world for almost a decade... There is one thing I will guarantee you.. the component list is key and if they are not using the top gear in the build then you better have a good pitch, a solid marketing game, a big forum presence, and a lot of bells and whistles :-)

To True, sorry man, hard not to get caught up. Roger yer a laugh... it uses the Balboa control and heating system and the Icynene full foam insulation system with waterways manifold plumbing, and active heat collection on the motors, we are northern Canada they seem to perform as good as it gets up here in our minus 40's ... its a well built energy efficient spa... I can only assume it must be down to experience or industry knowledge... but truth is you slag it off like all the dealers do becuase you hate them for hammering you on the expo events :-) do what I did, cut a deal to deliver and service them and recover you losses on that end.

LMFAO So your justification for all the requests for help on Broken Hot Springs spas is basically that only Hot Springs customers are smart enough to use the forums... Gulp Gulp Gulp... sorry man just getting some of that Kool Aid before its gone Even if we agree that they sell 10% of all the spas in the US...which is a joke.... there are 50+ manufacturers and the top 10 likely share 30-40% of the market so the real number is likely 3-5% at best. It still does not come even close to explaining the total wacko proportion of requests for broken spas on the forums. All the bantering is wind... the hard numbers tell the tale. Rwack we had the same issues here. I stopped servicing the line here because it was effecting our reputation, and we are golden in our market for back up and support.

Tubs are always tight environments to work on, thats why us service techs have so many unique little tools for getting at things This is flow related... if the unit was working and after refill its not determine if you have water flow... turn it on, put your hand in front of the return jet and see if there is pressure. If not make sure circ pump is running... feel it it should be warm and vibrating... If its running and no flow, try the garden hose down the filter hole trick, or alternatively loosen the top pipe on the circ pump while its running and bleed any air out... If all else fails get the pump out, the best thing usually is those little ratcheting wrenches... worth their weight in gold ;-)

I'm Not a Master employee. I was selling Four winds for years, Master does events in my area, remember i was ranting and raving about it on here??? I install the Masters they sell at the events and service them... it allowed me to mitigate the damage to my market by capturing the referral business, chemical sales etc... I was worried cause all you guys going on about the Master brand but TBH we have delivered about 200 over the past 3 years from their traveling road show, and I wish we had more service on them... they use the Balboa packs and the Waterways pumps and jets, It's arguably the best component list you can buy... not much failure rate there and frankly other than the odd pump or heater I haven't had much go wrong, they are pretty solid tubs and frankly the Twilight series rocks... The pump pressure and a ton of the high flow jets with diverters to control water flow its an amazingly good performing tub... I think it is one of the best performing spa on the market right now. Certainly of the 10 Brands Master builds it is the top even though they claim the LSX series is to , and even the HL stuff is pretty good. And no you are absolutely wrong about the hot springs stuff. Of the 55 manufacturers they are in the top 10 on Volume and probably account for 5%-7% of market share (at the best) yet they account for like 80% of the service requests on this and most forums.... The invensys heating and control system has had issue after issue, first it was heater relay boards and the auxiliary control panels. My hot springs dealer went bust here a long time ago and I serviced tons of them... the best thing about the Hot Springs tubs is the Marketing... especially their dominance of the online forums The only thing you really ever hear bad about Master is the "traveling circus show they use to dump product from town to town" frankly anyone stupid enough buy at an event like that and then complain about service and backup is not that bright to start with... Master has been good to deal with for issues... something goes wrong they send the part and pay the bill... don't know what else you would want... Didn't they win the Better Business Bureau Torch award for marketplace ethics??? like the only spa company ever to win it???

Solid advice Dan, Nice Pitch Hot springs ;-) not being at the house all the time might make you want to reconsider the Hot Spring though... Ever notice most of the posts asking for help fixing spas are for Hot Springs, tiger river, and caldera??? Right now 7 of the first ten service help requests on this forms fist page are hot spring made spas... Just saying... The Balboa system is the best out there, very few issues and the Wifi feature is cool. Find a brand using the top north american parts like Balboa, and Waterways and that's half the battle, there is a very good reason these two OEM's have been around so long, they build solid components. So many brands now have gone over to cheap Chinese parts and its a big quality issue. There are a few brands would suit your needs, but make sure you have a good local dealer, stay away from the dump and run expos, and blowout sales... Problem you have is this... you want simple jetting but wi-fi and stereo... weird mix, most of the tubs with simple jets and lots of bells and whistles like wi-fi and stereos are lower end, to get all the things you want you will end up in a higher end jetting (lots of the big hi flow therapy jets) My Short List would be Twilight, they have the wifi option, the Eco Pure filtration is a good active filtration system, running costs are good... I know all the dealers here hate Master because of their spa expo events (they come into town sell a pile of spas and leave ), but truth is they use the top parts and have very few issues and consistently win most of the top awards. (notice the total lack of service help requests on the forums for them) The Beachcomber or Catalina lines are decent as well.. same top parts list, but not sure if they do wi-fi

Great Tub, Likely somthing simple... It is flow related... first determine if the circ pump is coming on and moving any water... there should be water coming out of the little return jet in the footwell If the tub was really manky and full of algae it is likely one of the following... 1. Dirty filters... make sure nothing is in the tub that can get sucked into the filter hole and try running it without the filter 2. Low water level 3. something plugging the circ pump...

Pretty sure The Down east uses Balboa system, and a circ pump. DR means a flow issue. if water is moving through the retun jet then likely issues are dirty filters (try running with no filter and see if this helps), or a circ pump issue (likely debris in the pump head) take the head apart and see if it is clogged with hair or debris. this can happen if it is run with the filter not correctly seated.

this is what makes forums great! I cant resist!!!! The good: component list is solid The bad: old style shells, old style pressure filter system, old style floor suction The ugly: Meat heads like me hijacking threads...

Hey Binary I am with you on this one, if it is any more serious than a fuse or PS switch and you are looking at a board replacement, absolutely replace the system. Buy the VS 501 retrofit kit, it comes with everything including the pump wires, and top side template, they are a snap to fit and take about 20 minutes to an hour. and can be had fr $600-700

Fair enough, frankly I'm either way with Master, they build good solid tubs and support them from my personal experience of the 200+ spas dumped in my market. As for the roadshows, that has nothing to do directly with the factory, it is dealer based, supported and paid for. Check whosis for the domain registration and you will find Master does not own the expo site either. All my dealings with the factories for the few service issues I have had have been a pain in the ass as far as paperwork and being pedantic, but above reproach for support, and part supply... As for the Balboa boards, first I almost never replace Balboa components with the exception of the odd heater. Second if a board goes on any controller you are almost the same price to replace the system! On a 3 year old spa its the service option I always go with regardless of brand. I have about 10 gecko systems in my warehouse from retrofits because at the same time I upgrade them to the Balboa system. The reiliability of rthe Balboa system is simply miles ahead of anything else, and their patents ensure they will be for a great deal of time to come. Master spas are wood frames, it is an option for steel frames, only tricked buyers and inexperienced dealers order steel frames on any brand IMHO. I have 5 paid bloggers and im an obscure retailer... the last manufacturer I was with had 20 and they were behind on it. every manufacturer who has any internet savvy pays bloggers... Hotsprings was also very good at support and parts, but again a pain in the ass with paperwork, but faults!!! i have more heater relay boards than all other computer boards combined from the last 3 years of service... by far...(there are only about 20 HS units in my market) Invensys who build the system for Watkins, have to date not had great sucess with spa controllers... it is a very very insignificant part of their business and gets little attention. and spa side controllers! customers just give up on them after the first 2 or 3 fail (its the real reason their main controller is mounted in the skirt, they cant get a controller to survive the spa environment)... It is a decent spa, but nothing is really so special about it... except the marketing :-) And yes people are fools, and yes they are soon parted with their money...

I buy a pile of spas each year, After 24 years in this game, Manufacturing, retailing, and supplying the mass merchants my short list of suppliers had to have three things, Balboa Controls and heating systems- expensive but they hold all the key patents... The reliability is far and away the best out there. Waterways Jets, pumps and fittings (diverters etc) Minimum 25 years continuous building history---- obvious reasons, if they have survived this long they doing it right. There is only one reason manufacturers do not use this component list. It is to save money on the build, but you the customer pay down the road replacing inferior components... Then---- EXPERIENCED LOCAL DEALER ---- that is the recipe for success.

John I have seen frame degradation on wood frames and metal frames and we all know that it is down to the frame being wet all the time... so a loose union not noticed, or a poor install site... any tech worth his salt knows this is not product related... lets keep it relevant.

Spatech, what you say is not really correct... The brands that traditionally get hammered are the ones hitting our pocket books. Master is hammering loads of markets and costing lots of dealers lots of sales through their traveling pony show. That is why they are getting hammered. the truth is you cant fault the build quality, component list, factory support, or the product itself, its just a high profile target. Wait awhile... Marquis, and others are duplicating these dog and pony shows soon, so we will all have more high profile targets to hurl abuse at What boggles my mind is how stupid people are, they go to these events and believe whatever the sales guys say and spend their money with companies that are based hundreds of miles away from them and think they will get backup. The really stupid part is they end up paying more at these spa expos than they would from their local retailer because the events cost a fortune to run... $30k-$50k in advertising, $8 k in venues fees, 7% commissions, etc etc... How can anybody think these are good places to buy spas...

lol nightmare dude... Hotsprings leakers are a nightmare, get the chisel out!