mgrobins

Thanks heaps . Spa is only used by me and for 2-4 times a week so I think the N2 and MPS method should be ok. I set up the water as: TA 80-90 CH ~150 CYA 30ppm added chlorine to get to 10ppm borates to ~40ppm PH is high at about 8.6 after aeration so I need to get some PH reducer if the pH doesn't drop (hoping the CYA will drop it a bit as it dissolves properly). After about 4 hours placed the N2 cartridge. As I see it I now have 2 options as the N2 manual describes a MPS and chlorine method: Note: As an alternative to MPS2, an EPA registered source of dichlor1 may be substituted: 1 tablespoon dichlor1 = approximately 3 tablespoons MPS2 Since I have placed a bolus of CYA already I'll just use bleach. 1. MPS method - let the chlorine decline on its own and use MPS before and after bathing. Chlorine shock weekly or as needed (will CYA be an issue for this)? 2. Chlorine method: 1 teaspoon equivalent of bleach before/after bathing and shock with MPS as required. again, will the set level of CYA cause the available chlorine to be too low? Both seem to require about the same input and cost. Is one method particularly better? It seems to me the suggestion to add dichlor at about 2 teaspoons a session would lead to a high CYA after 4 months. Also, 2 tablespoons of MPS per session would get quite costly c.f the use of bleach (I pay $0.99 FOR 2L).

Thanks for the advice I just bought a big bottle of sanosil a few weeks ago worst luck but I'm just not comfortable with it. seems to need pretty fine management to stay on top of the water quality. I do have a question if you wouldn't mind... I read the bleach/dichlor method. I used to do this same method (home brand bleach here in Australia) except I ake a small container to my pool shop and get them to give me some CYA (often called sunscreen here). I found it easier to measure what I need on a spreadsheet calculator. I have an often on ozonator so my CD will be quite high. I'm thinking of the Nature 2 and MPS method with weekly chlorine shock. Can you please outline a simple procedure for startup and maintenance of this method? Not the water balance .... just the sanitation . You mention

Thanks Chem Geek . I'll check the strips. They have levels indicating 40-60-80-100 .... I did think that the issue may be that peroxide is not as effective as chlorine but the illness came on same day as being in the spa which I would not expect if it were due to a high bacterial load. Would a couple of hours in the spa in a day make someone feel ill with too much peroxide? I shower before using the spa, wash the filters weekly and have an ozonator that is running at least 8 cycles a day. I use MPS for getting rid of waste - does this build up in the water over time? I'm using liquids so am not certain why the water gets fizzy quite quickly. This area of town does have a lot more dust than my old place but the spa is covered when not in use. My inclination is to go back to chlorine. I made the change based on included chemicals with the spa and my last spa had a lot of fading of fittings and deterioration of the cover that I think was related to the chlorine. It was my first spa (inherited with the home) and it took me time to get the chem management worked out. I had thought of using a automatic doser for the poppits.

Hi, I've always run my spa using chlorine and the suggested methods on this forum. Some months back I bought a new spa (LA Spas Allure III) which is about 900L. I am using the Poppits (Sanosil) system as that was what was provided and it was presented as an easy odourless and more gentle solution for me and the spa. I couple of times I have found a strong vapour of the hydrogen peroxide and after using the spa have felt nauseous - sore glands and stomach.... like I'm ill. Breathing in causes pain and I feel like I'm running a fever. First time I didn't tie it to the spa but now I'm quite suspicious. My questions: 1. is it likely the hydrogen peroxide could cause these symptoms? It's within the normal range for the spa strips 2. how long should I wait after dosing before getting in? 3. If the sanosil is not killing effectively would my issue be bacterial ingestion (breathing in heavily laden vapours)? Onset occurs over a couple of hours so I'm thinking toxicity is the issue more than bacteria. I find the water gets 'fizzy' very quick using this system as compared to my old chlorine spa. Anyone have any light to shed on this or advice?

ok. CYA was measured at 29ppm. So going on your suggestion I should apply chlorine to be measured at approx 4ppm which will mean an available chlorine level of about 1ppm with the remained bound by CYA and in an equilibrium state? I have my spa temp at 37C (99f). I guess my goal is consistant sanitation without a chlorine smell or the harsh feeling some public pools give. Bather load is low (myself once per day at most) and I alsways shower prior to time in the spa.... Thanks for the useful advice and explanations too...

Once CYA is added I assume the drop kit I am using is testing the FC level and not TC? I add enough bleach to keep it at 1-2ppm.

Hi, thanks so much for the responses . I'm glad I was on the money ref the likely source of deterioration and will continue to use the bleach. I don't use Dichlor... I calculate the specific amounts I need for the chemicals and add them at startup (my local shop just fills a small container with Cyanuric acid for me). It takes some time to disolve but works well. My issue with not using CYA arose after I followed the advice of my 'professional' store owner down trhe road. They can stick to pools and I'll stick to my spa I think.... most of the guys there don't even question me anymore because they don't know what the chemicals in the spa products do (eg "silk" which is Boric Acid). I use the calculator from this page: http://www.thepoolcalculator.com/ I wonder what sort of headrests I could fit to my Jacuzzi... it's a J-385 so the outside is sort of rounded/angular leading to the timber surround. Seems like a good suggestion though . I'll see how my own castings go to (buying the pillow/surround combo is $60 per set and I need 5).

Hi, I live in Australia and have been in and out of these forums for some time. Have some questions ref sanitiser... Homebrand Bleach is one I found to be free of a surfactant and is listed at 4.2% strength. It also lists Sodium Hydroxide as an active ingredient (9g/L). Is this additional chemical a problem? I found that since using bleach I have experienced more rapid deterioration of my foam head-rests and spa cover. I havd no CYA for a while and thought this was the cause but I would like to confirm the bleach I am using is OK. For general info I did a calculation on cost. Bleach runs at 5.6 cents per application and the Lithium at 39 cents (purchasing 1kg of lithium). I think I can halve that by purchasing a 'bulk' container (a "giant" 2kg haha) but it still works out far superior to use bleach. I just want to know what I'm using is ok and prevent excessive deterioration.... On the topic of foam headrests... any suggestions for a way to preserve them better? Jacuzzi ones are not the high standard I would have liked to see from them... (I have made moulds at work and am in the process of fabricating my own from silicone). Cheers,

I use bleach and shock with MPS as needed . My queries are more about how much of a difference do the N2 and ozone make. Both cost money and are sold as items that enhance or replace the need for chemicals but a sanitiser is still required.

Well, I pulled apart the waterfalls on my J-385 (actually 2100L not 3100) and resealed the leaking fittings. There was a fair amount of bioburden in them. After fitting the hoses again and running it while I shock the spa it's looking a lot nicer. Time will tell how much of an issue it was but I do think the blocked hose was allowing water to stagnate and affecting my CD. Still keen to know how much effect the ozonator and N2 should be having...

Hi, We have a hydro pool at the hospital I work in (it's a smallish one though bigger than what you describe) I can ask them how they care for it if I can find the person who takes care of it. I think with the temp you will be running it will be important to maintain your sanitizer levels as it's likely to encourage more bacterial growth - especially if you have no connected ozonator or salt water chlorinator. Being vinyl it may be good to get some advice about what chemicals and levels are appropriate so as not to cause deterioration. Given that it is inside and the above factors I would guess you could look after it like a spa. Not having jets and a different usage pattern it may actually be easier to maintain and perhaps not require some of the additives people put in their spa such as borates???. If I find out anything useful I'll post it here. What do the manufacturers suggest?

Hi, been a while since I visited the forum . I have a Jacuzzi of 3100L I think. When I first set it up about a year and a half ago it was workign well with the N2 carttridge and ozonator functioning (well it was bubbling air in at any rate). The one-way valve for the ozonator failed and it ingested water. I replaced the ozonator but note that it has 2 connection spots for the hose to the water-line. My question is, for a CD type ozonator is the line I connect to irrelevant? There are no markings to suggest which I should have as input or output. I figured the chamber produces ozone and the venturi effect of the water would draw it down whichever connection I have the hose on. The reason I now query this is that I am finding that with a N2 and ozonator I get cloudy water and a strong drop in pH after a few days away for work. How much of this should the ozonator be stopping? The only other change to the spa has been a pipe I blocked to a 'waterfall' feature that was leaking internally. With no corculation through this pipe I figured it may have formed a biofilm and be seeding the spa with bacteria. I'm going to fix the leak or at least get this pipe back into circulation. Overall I'm after any suggestions people may have Cheers,

Thanks Chem Geek. I'm going to monitor the pH, TA and chlorine levels for a few days and see how stable it is with regular use. The aeration and CO2 was a consideration in where I tried to leave my TA (given that pH can sit in a range as well). I'm looking for the most stable and low maintenance water . I suspect that overall the extra Calcium will make things better. Next time I fill I reckon I'll be able to do it wiht minimal chemical wastage and a lot cheaper. This forum has helped me a lot .

I re-tested my water with the following results. temp 37 pH 7.8 (after aeration). TA 80-90 CYA 43 Borate (unknown... added the described volume for startup and maintenance doses on the "spa silk" bottle which is bromic acid. I suspect it's fairly close to 50 as the total that has gone in over time is about 500g) - other than buffering this doesn't interact much anyway does it?? Incidentally, why are maintenance doses of Boric acid indicated on the packaging?? Is it consumed in reaction with other ions once dissociated? I was planning on using MPS but now that I found an ok bleach and have balanced my water I think I'll stick with chlorine. In an effort to get rid of the detergent/residue I ended up sitting a large sponge over the filter intake. Actually worked well as the sponge seems to have taken in the residue from the water passing into the filtration system.

Bleach tested with a coffee plunger (to aerate)... White king => turns to foam Cheap arse Home brand => no suds at all... Was definitely the white king. Won't be recommending this to anyone! As for getting the residual detergent out of my spa.... any suggestions? I used a towel to drag over the surface and try to catch much of it and also one of my filter cartridges (gave them a clean). Also dropped in a small amount of the anti-foam as I thought it would counteract the bleach additive. I dislike adding anything not necessary for sanitation or balancing the water though. I reckon it just adds to the TDS and shortens the overall water lifespan between changes. Had my water tested. CYA is at 43 (a bit high I gather from recommendations) Other than dumping a few hundred litres I don't see a fix for this. Should this be considered a real drama? I tend to only use the chlorine or MPS to shock or just after bathing as I rely on the N2 and Ozone for the bulk of my sanitation. After advice I added calcium too. Using the pool calculator I don't know if I will be able to balance my water completely as my TA tends to be fairly low (50-60) when pH is kept at 7.8 or lower.