imnay

Based on our personal experience. Buy an aluminum pool. Sink it at least partially into the ground. Dig out ground for extra depth and get an extended depth liner. Have at least two outlets from the pump to your pool. Have a main drain added at the deepest part of your pool. Buy an in-ground quality pump and filter with plenty of power to suck water from skimmer and main drain and push at good pressure back out to two outlets back to the pool. We did all of the above and we have an incredible pool - 27 ft round with almost 7 ft center depth and VERY easy to care for with the powerful pump, filter and outlet/inlet system. GoodLuck

If the leak is in the mechanical compartment and visible coming around the light lens you are in very fortunate territory!! Plenty of DIY folk would say do it yourself - just me, I would pay the Hot Springs techs or a after market spa company that you can trust and verify to come out and reseal or replace the light lens - apparently they can develop small cracks that can leak. If your leak is NOT coming from an obvious location you could be in for a rough ride. A very small leak - I personally would define that as so slow that it would take a week for you to see a lower water depth inside the shell - I wouldn't be terribly concerned and you can afford the time to research and find best solution for you. If you can see daily lower depth inside the spa then it need s more immediate fix. As posted - leaks won't magically go away and over time will only get worse. Our 13 year old prodigy is leaking from a mysterious source inside all the blown in insulation - the Hot Springs dealer wouldn't attempt to locate it and neither would either of two after market spa businesses - we were losing about three inches a day so my bride said to give up and toss the spa. Right now it's on its' side and I have decided to just have some DIY fun so I am slowing removing all the insulation and am confident that I will locate the leak source before she makes me haul it away. Anywho, be happy your leak source is clearly visible in the motor compartment and Best of Luck!

I'm not sure of the point of this post. Actually, inground pools are significantly easier to maintain than AGPools because they typically have better and more efficient filtration systems with more water inlets to the pump/filter and more outlets from the pump/filter and to go along with that a more powerful pump so that the volume of water in the pool cycles totally through the filter much more quickly than with the typical AGPool with a single water inlet - the skimmer - and a single water outlet from the filter and a lower power 110watt pump. Our personal opinion is that it is about as easy to have a child drown in a AGPool as in any other type pool which is why most pool safety laws require same protection barriers for AGPools as InGround pools. I am not putting down AGPools as we carefully compared the benefits and drawbacks of both types and chose to have a hybrid - a AGPool sunk partially in the ground with extra water inlets and outlets and a gunite floor for under our liner with extra depth and we chose that option to get the features of inground while saving a ton of money by putting an AGPool on top of an inground support structure and filtration system. Anywho, that's our comment to the thread. GoodLuck

We get a LOT of rain and wanted our spa elevated (plus we didn't know any better) so I built a deck. I used 4X4s for joists spaced only 12 inches apart and 2X4s for deck boards and I think it would easily hold most any weight you care to put on it. Between your two choices I would go with crushed stone if it will allow drainage of water caused by heavy reain.

Our first vinyl liner lasted almost 15 years without our taking any "pains" to take special care of it. Our second liner is about five years old and if the pool cove product was available then we never learned about it - I'm not sure what or if we're missing anything significant by not using that technology. If you decide to buy a new liner we recommend you consider buying an expanded depth liner and digging out for extra depth. In our opinion, the worst thing about AGPools compared to traditional inground is depth - 52in walls usually mean about 48in of net water depth and that is just dinky and makes a pool not nearly as enjoyable unless you just love waist deep water. Our 27ft round is regular depth for about 18 inches out from the wall and then gently slopes to a center depth of over 6 1/2 feet and, to us, it makes such a BIG difference in our enjoyment of our pool. It is also easy to add additional water outlet from your pump and a second water inlet which, when used with a suitably powered pump will increase filtering efficiency and power which, in our experience, can make pool water maintenance a lot easier. In our case we had a center drain added separately plumbed from the skimmer and a second outlet for water return and the benefits are too many to type here. We never vacuum. If there is small debris on our pool floor that can't be scooped out with a net we just sweep it into the center drain. Final Suggestion - The guy that installed our pool over 20 years ago suggested we let him put in a gunite floor for under our liner and that was the second best thing we did after having the extra depth - the floor is always smooth and firm and maintains the shape even over the slope down to the center depth. There is a lot you can do to an AGPool that doesn't add significantly to cost yet will deliver a much nicer pool experience. You will be so glad you decided to buy into the AGPool experience. Ours has made such a BIG difference is how much we enjoy and even use our backyard. Best of Luck!

Our opinion - based on our personal experience - is AGPool a much more cost effective option that traditional inground and while neither of our two pool were "rated" for sinking into the ground we partially sank both with no problems. Or course, an aluminum or fiberglass AGPool is preferred to vinyl clad steel as they are less likely to fail and aren't likely to corrode/rust. Vinyl clad steel - specially if partially sunk into the ground - is going to corrode or rust - it's just a matter of time BUT aluminum or fiberglass panel AGPools will cost two to three times more than vinyl clad steel so part of your cost justification and cost analysis formula must include a realistic idea of how long you expect to live where you live and want to keep a pool. We bought our second vinyl clad steel pool five years ago because, at that time, we could not find an aluminum AGPool that would allow an extended depth liner and the center depth of our 27 ft. AGPool is over 6 1/2 feet. Our first steel AGPool lasted about 15 years. We sunk it about 1/2 way into the ground. Our installer, at our request, coated the outer wall with a thick black rubbery substance to help protect from moisture intrusion. After 15 yrs the pool was doing fine BUT or original liner was wrinkling and otherwise failing so we chose to just replace pool and liner and when we pulled out the old liner there was a ton of corrosion all around the pool wall - it never bothered us all those 15 years and we never knew it was there but corrosion was occuring out of sight. That first pool cost us about $1200.00 in 1989 including the expanded depth liner - total price to installer including digging the sloping floor to center, adding center floor drain and extra water outlet and, best of all, putting in gunite floor to go under our liner was just $4500.00. A traditional inground concrete and gunite 27 ft. round pool would have cost well over $25k and then every six to eight years we would have had to pay about $6k to have the walls redone with new marcite. To have our second steel pool installed onto our existing gunite floor and into our existing filtration system cost us about $3,000 including the cost of new pool and liner so our total cost including one pump replacement for over 20 years of perfect pool just $7500.00 which we consider very reasonable and we expect at least five more years from pool number two. The SMARTEST thing we did was having the extra depth liner, extra center depth and inground type filter system with center main drain added - WORST THING, our opinion, with AGPools is the stock shallow depth which can be easily corrected with a bit of imagination and planning. So, our opinion, AGPool a much more cost effective alternative to having a concrete monument poured into your backyard. GoodLuck!!!

We are continuing to try and find a slow leak in our Prodigy and in our case it is becoming a "mission impossible". Main problem is the Hot Springs design has blown in insulation that totally fills the space between the shell, the side walls and the base. This foam makes if VERY difficult to locate a leak and I have spent weeks and weeks trying to track down our leak. There are three diagrams for the three separate systems. 1. Suction - this is a system that draws water through the filters to and through the main pump. 2. Pressure - this is a system totally separate from Suction that distributes water from the main pump to all of the jets. 3. Airline - this is a system for air delivery. There is a sub-system that probably feeds from one of the filters in your filter container to the circulation pump. Keith at Watkins Corp. was kind enough to email diagrams of the various systems. Having the diagrams was very helpful BUT I still haven't found source of our leak. Let me know if you need to 800 number to Watkins Customer Support. Right now I have lifted our spa on its' side and am about to cut into and through the foam to the most likely source of our leak. If this doesn't work the spa will take its' final ride to the dump. Best of Luck!!!

Are you moving it over grass/yard or over paved or deck or concrete? The BEST thing we ever bought for moving stuff was a lift table from Harbor Freight. We bought the $149.00 model with 500 lb. max capacity as our application at the time was moving pinball machines around our house but since we bought this table we have moved more heavy stuff that I can list and it is SO EASY to use. We moved our spa across a deck without a problem. I used a regular dolly to lift the spa edge enough to put 4X4s under the corners which gave us enough clearance to put the lift table under the center of the spa - then just jacked it up and rolled it to the new location. There are MANY different models and styles of lift tables out there with many under $500.00 that will lift 1,000 lbs or more.

Is the pool vinyl clad steel or fiberglass or aluminum? Side wall corrosion more likely to be seen on the inside under the liner than the outside of a steel pool. These days, most anything for $300 sounds like a good deal - depending on the make and model of pool you can probably find a replacement skimmer but it epoxy has stopped the leak I wouldn't worry about it. IMO - the two biggest drawbacks to AGPools are depth and limited filtration capability due to only one water intake (skimmer) and one water outlet in the pool wall. We have had 27 ft round pools for about 21 years. The original contractor used an extended depth liner and created a sloping bottom to a center "main drain" with a depth of approx. 6 1/2 feet - WOW, what a difference in the quality of pool use the extra depth gave us PLUS the center drain is a second water inlet to the pump and filter so he also added a second outlet for water to enter the pool after leaving the pump and filter which resulted in very superior filtration. We prefer our cartridge filter and in-line auto chlorinator but sand is a fine alternative. Extra depth is worth the price of an expanded depth liner, in our personal experience. An above ground pool can be the equal of any in ground pool with a bit of imagination and at a MUCH lower cost.

IMO - vinyl clad steel won't last as long but they are the least expensive - all choices have trade offs. Our first AGP was steel and lasted 15 years which made is very cost effective and it lasted that long even though we had it sunk about half way into the ground. Today our second steel 27ft round pool can be had for around $2500 whild aluminum of same size will cost two to three time that much. We chose steel for second pool and at the end of fifth season it seems to be holding up well - we chose steel cause at the time we couldn't find an aluminum pool that would support an extended depth liner and our pool "structure" is round with a sloping gunite floor to a near 7 ft, center drain. We have enjoyed the ease of use and maintenance of our filter cartridge system. Sand seems llike a pain and, to us, DE is not necessary to have sparkling clean and clear water. We use chlorine and have for over 20 years without problems or hassles. To us, for ease of use and maintenance we suggest you have extra water outlet added from your filter to your pool and a "main" or floor drain added. One reason why AGPools are more difficult to filter and clean and maintain is that the basic config is one water inlet to the filter - the skimmer - and one water outlet back to the pool and this limits ability of the system to quickly respond to heavy filtration needs/situations and specially in a larger pool. Our pool has about 22k gallons - 27ft round with extra depth - and we are SO GLAD to have a floor drain and a second water outlet easily supported by a Hayward 1 1/2 HP 220V pump. Take a lot of time deciding how you want your pool experience to be. AGPools are, of course, much less expensive than traditional in-ground concrete/gunite types BUT you can have extra depth and better and more powerful filtration if you plan for it and it doesnt' cost that much more to have these things added if done at the time of pool installation.

I took the wrong track posting to a recent thread about a suspected leak in a Hot Springs spa. I would VERY MUCH appreciate any and all advice re how to track down a leak in a foam packed H.Springs spa. I have spent hours on the phone with Keith at Watkins Tech Support (Great tech person, BTW) and I have poured over jet, suction and air diagrams he sent to me. I have used red dye and spent hours trying to isolate for sure where I am losing water. Dealer tech and dealer recommended spa expert have examined the spa for hair line cracks in the shell without success. I am confident that none of the motor compartment plumbing is leaking (plus all components re-plumbed by dealer tech recently. I do believe that the leak is located within the front of the unit from the bottom drain to the motor compartment. Tomorrow I am planning to flip the unit onto its' side and do careful surgery cutting through the hard shell foam bottom and then carefully digging out tons of foam. Then I plan to put the spa right-side-up about two feet off the pad with support for all weight bearing areas, put water in and lie on my back watching for leaks - YIKES that sounds like a lot of work. ANY suggestions very much appreciated. There should be no reason why this leak can't be tracked down and Cathy and I would very much like to keep this spa plus we have replaced the ozonator, circulation pump and heater so we have a grand invested in saving this spa. Lady down the road has a pristine Grandee - NO LEAKS! - that I can buy for $600.00 - but it's way too big a spa for the two of us and trying to bring that monster to our house would be difficult and Tech Support says the Grandee would cost like three to four times the electricity to maintain - geez - I want to keep our Prodigy. Can someone tell me where I am going wrong finding this leak or is my plan the best plan. Roger - this is your cue to explain how you would find a Hot Springs leak in an hour and a half. Thank You and Thanks again. Jim

I also wish Roger lived near me in N. Florida. I have a Hot Springs spa with a leak that I cannot track down and don't you think for a minute that I haven't tried EVERYTHING in the way of completely blocking jets in the jet output system and also all water entry points of the suction system - the lines that feed the circulation pump and heater from the filter compartment. I have had the light lens checked out. I have had a pro go over every inch of the shell with no hairline cracks found. We re=plumbed all components in the motor compartment. Roger - as info I had a highly recommended leak finder guy - actually recommended by Hot Springs dealers - and he made a visit - looked at our spa - and though he promised to return to do a fix he never called or returned. Dealers quoted $1500 to $2000 to find and fix our leak. I have carefully removed redwood side panels and burrowed in through the god-rotting foam and can't find anything that remotely looks like leaking PVC or fittings. I am not a total duffer by this time - Watkins tech support was kind enough to send me detailed diagrams of the pump/jet, suction and air systems - this was a great help with understanding the workings of the spa but spending hours using these diagrams to track and block and test all lines and feeds and fixtures the leak continues. This weekend, my sons and I are, as a last attempt before we just toss the spa, planning to put it on it's side and do the careful surgery - cutting into the hard spa bottom layer and then the foam removal to try and locate the leak source. I guess my contribution is to say that even a pretty good DIY type armed with tech support and diagrams can have a very difficult time finding a leak in a spa that has solid blown in foam that covers EVERYTHING between the shell and floor and side walls. I am open to suggestion - I badly need someone to tell me where I am going wrong so that I am turning a simple 1 1/2 job into many man-days of frustration. Okay - be very happy that you didn't have a leak after all!!!!

IMO - I agree with other posters. There is a 14 yr old Hot Springs Grandee for sale about 50 miles from where I live and I would buy it in confidence before buying the make spa you mentioned.

Above ground pools with a center drain are unusual. We have a center drain and a skimmer. We have two ball valves - one from the skimmer and one from the center drain - that allows us to cut off water pulled to the pump from the skimmer or the center drain and then there is a separate valve that allows us to vary between the two - sounds a bit like what you have. What make and model pump to you have and what type of filter? We can cut off our skimmer so that water only draws from our main center drain. If you set things to close off the skimmer and draw only from the center drain and it ain't draining then there is a problem. If you detach the pipe from the floor drain and water pours out but the pump isn't drawing water then sounds like valves are either mis-set or blocked. I would go to a rent-all place and rent a free standing pump to drain out all the standing water ASAP. Then, while all the pool and system are empty I would work through testing valves and etc. and replace and fix until it all works as designed. A center drain in a AGPool is an elegant thing to have - in our experience, it can make cleaning and maintenance a LOT easier. Once you get it figured out and the new liner installed you will be glad to have the floor drain.

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