Joe G.

This is a safe level because of the silver in the frog, there are other posts that pertain to this also. the frog uses 1-bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin, Common Chemical Name: BCDMH, 1-Bromo-3-chloro-5,5-dimethylhydantoin (BCDMH) is a chemical structurally related to hydantoin. It is a white crystalline compound with a slight bromine and acetone odor and is insoluble in water, but soluble in acetone. BCDMH is an excellent source of both chlorine and bromine as it reacts slowly with water releasing hypochlorous acid and hypobromous acid. It used as a chemical disinfectant used for recreational water and drinking water purification. BCDMH works in the following manner[1]: The initial BCDMH reacts with water (R = Dimethylhydantoin): BrClR + 2 H2O → HOBr + HOCl + RH2 Hypobromous acid partially dissociates in water: HOBr → H+ + OBr- Hypobromous acid oxidizes the substrate, itself being reduced to bromide: HOBr + Live pathogens → Br- + Dead pathogens The bromide ions are oxidized with the hypochlorous acid that was formed from the initial BCDMH: Br- + HOCl → HOBr + Cl- This produces more hypobromous acid. However, the hypochlorous acid itself does act directly as a disinfectant in the process DBDMH is a source of bromine, which is equivalent to hypobromous acid (HOBr). Br2X + 2 H2O → 2 HOBr + H2X (Where H2X is 5,5-dimethylhydantoin) With a pKa of 8.6, hypobromous acid partially dissociates in water: HOBr ⇌ H+ + BrO- Hypobromous acid serves as a source of "Br+," which produces bromide ions in the process of disinfection: HOBr + live pathogens → Br- + dead pathogens The resulting bromide ions can then undergo oxidation to hypobromous acid in the presence of an oxidizer of sufficient strength e.g. ozone, hypochlorous acid, potassium monopersulfate. This reoxidation process is commonly called "activation" of the bromide ion: Br- + HOCl → HOBr + Cl- I think you could use this with the frog, but may have to oxidize frquently to activate the bromine, where BCDMH would more hold its own. Hope this helps some. I have a HotSprings 2010 Grandee with the ACE Chlorine System. Is it save to use a spa frog? Thanks, Joe

I've been shopping around the NY Metro area for a 2010 Grandee w/ACE System, Cover Cradle/Cover, steps. I was quoted ~ $10.6K for the Grandee and ~$9K for the Vanguard. Are these good prices in your opinion? I purchased a 2010 Grandee with ACE in the Northern NJ Area last month. i paid $11K w/the Cover Cradle, startup kit, delivery. no steps. (add tax on to the $11K). Although in the NNJ area i would expect to pay more than other areas, I believe you did get a really nice deal.

I recently took delivery of a 2010 Grandee w/the ACE System. My dealer has instructed that the water should be shocked approximately 1 time per month. My question is for those of you on the ACE system what type/kind of shock should I use? My previous tub was a Coleman 250; I was using a bromine based water treatment system. Can I use generic spa shock granules for the ACE System or do i need to use liquid chlorine? Something else? Thanks in advance for your help. So far I have been very pleased with 2010 HotSprings Grandee. Joe

Well, for disclosure purposes, I can no longer claim that I'm unbiased, since I just purchased a new ACE equipped Grandee this past weekend (delivery in 4-6 weeks)! I am hopeful though that ACE will meet or exceed my expectations. My dealer pushes ACE pretty hard, even if he has to discount it pretty significantly, because it also makes their lives easier. He estimated up to 80% of their service calls were water related, and he has yet to have to make a single water relateed service call for an ACE equipped tub, with more than 20 in the field. I think we can all agree that $800 is at the extreme end of chemical savings, and that the average user would not see that kind of savings. However, it is possible that Silkbalance users would also gravitate toward the ACE system due to the softer water, which Silkbalance also relies on. When we wet tested both times at HotSpring, the ACE equipped Envoy was noticeably softer than their other tubs, which were traditional dichlor/chlorine. The water in it had not been changed since it hit the floor (8 months), and it looked and felt every bit as clean as the water in a new Grandee on the floor that had a fresh fill. Neither tub had a noticeable smell. Granted none of their tubs sees heavy volume, but I was still impressed after seeing the reports from those that can't maintain consistent readings for more than a few months at a time without refilling (most likely due to overdosing). ACE isn't magic, and it won't eliminate your need to test perform any maintenance (filters, salt, and electrodes), but it should make maintenance a lot easier, provide for softer water with fewer chemicals, and save some $$ in the process. Either way, I'll be sure to report back with my impressions based on my actual findings once I'm up and running for a while. I've been shopping around the NY Metro area for a 2010 Grandee w/ACE System, Cover Cradle/Cover, steps. I was quoted ~ $10.6K for the Grandee and ~$9K for the Vanguard. Are these good prices in your opinion?

Folks, I'm in the process of replacing my Coleman spa (which I believe used 40 amp service) to a spa that will take 50 amps. What do I need to do in order to deliver 50 amps total to the outside fuse box next to the spa? The main panel inside my house has to paired 20 amp breakers which feed the line extending outside to the outside breaker box next to the spa area. If I remember correctly there was an additional fuse/breaker (the pull out/ twist type) next to the spa (i'm guessing it was 40 amps too). How can deliver 50 amps to the new spa? Is it a matter of just changing the 2 paired 20amp breakers on the house panel + the inline fuse next to the spa? I'm trying to avoid an entire new line run if possible. Thanks in advance for your help. Joe

Good request! I have a similiar set up as yours. I'm replacing my Coleman 250 (14 years old) and a collapsed gazeebo kit which was made of redwood (also 15 years old, came down with the recent snow storm here in NJ). I dont feel like spending $5-8$K on top of the ~ $10K for the Caldera Elation package, Hot Springs Vista. I thinking of doing something similiar with a vinyl privacy fence around the tub. I'm also interested in seeing pictures, hearing ideas from others who did something similiar. Joe G. Bayonne, NJ

Good point. I will attempt to locate a few more dealers who will deliver to the Northern NJ area for additional prices. Although my Coleman 250 has already been removed I'm not jumping at the first vendor price. The only 2 vendor names provided by Hot Springs was Montelbano's in Staten Island and Prisco Pools and Spa's in Hawthorne, NJ. There must be others. Thanks, Joe

Jim, This is an excellent suggestion you bring up. All of the vinyl enclosed gazeebo's that I have come across are at least $5K and up w/o installation. I bet I can create an internal decorative vinyl fence around the tub for a heck of alot less. I will look into your suggestion further. Thanks for the tip. Joe

I'm looking for HS Vista with the ACE Salt Water System here in NJ. I'm not familiar with the Sovereign but I'm guessing its one of the bigger tubs. I'm betting thats a good price since that ACE system is brand new for 2010 from what I'm told. I will be going to Montalbano's Pool in Staten Island, NY. I will check out there price on the Sovereign too.

Thanks for posting. Now, I would have guessed that the Hot Springs Vista would cost more than the Elation with all things being equal. I'll have to keep shop around a bit longer. I'm hoping some others who have purchased, or are in the process of purchasing either of these spa's will share their experience, suggestions as well. I'm also looking for spa enclosure. I was amazed of how much those final kits cost. Almost as much as the spa. Does anybody have suggestions for a semi private enclosure to use for the spa on a concrete pad? Thanks, Joe

I'm in the process of replacing my Coleman 250 tub which served me well for 14 years. I just want a new one, with the low maintenance cabinet, more effecient electric use, etc. I am considering a Caldera Elation and Hot Springs Vista (with the salt water system). For the Elation I have been quoted $11.2K (less NJ Sales Taxes) which includes the following; - Tub - Cover - Cover Cradle Li - Cantabria Cover Lifter - Advent Remote Control - Delivery - Chemicals Is this a good price? I havent recieved a quote yet on the Hot Springs Vista. Am I looking at a similiar price? Also interested in your feedback on both of these spa's from a reliability, therapeutic, confort perspective. Thanks for your help. I'm looking to buy real soon as I hate being "spa-less". Joe