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Altazi

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  1. Ahhh. . . Spatopia! What could be better than sitting in your bubbling spa, located in a darksome corner of a dank basement, watching the spiders crawl on the floor joists above. . .
  2. Hi Tony, Thanks for the review & background story. If any new information arises, let us all know, please. Any pictures of your installation? Regards, Altazi
  3. Hi Wes, I can't wait to hear about your delivery, set-up, and first use! You and your wife must be getting very excited. Tom from Arctic Spas sent me some introductory information on the new Arctic Spas pump motors, made in Italy. The old motors had slots in the end so the motor's cooling fan could suck air through the inside of the motor; if the air contained moisture, the moisture was also sucked into the motor. This is like many other spa pump motors. The new motors are sealed, and the case has heatsink fins on it. The cooling fan blows air over the OUTSIDE of the motor. There are other differences, as well - larger bearings, improved electrical, etc. The new motor is sealed to IP-55, which means "Ingress Protection"; the first digit indicates protection against solid objects - level 5 means protection against dust deposits (dust proof); the second digit indicates protection against liquids - level 5 means protection against jets of water from any angle (jet proof). As a reference, some of NASA's totally sealed motors are rated IP-68, the highest level of ingress protection; level 6 indicates total protection against dust deposits (dust tight); level 8 indicates protection against immersion for an indefinite period. Regards, Altazi
  4. You are correct to be concerned. As an example, the Arctic Spas Tundra has a 540 gallon water capacity; that equates to almost 4500 lbs of water - not including the weight of the spa (which I couldn't find on their website). The spa must weigh upwards of 800lbs dry, so you are looking at about 5300lbs for a filled spa. Sure, the weight is spread out over the area of the base, about 58.8 square feet, giving you just over 90lbs per square foot, but that's still 2.65 TONS of spa & water sitting on your deck - not incuding the chips & beer! You might need to "beef-up" your deck support to handle the vertical loading, and you might need to add cross-bracing for shear loading. I would have someone knowledgeable about deck construction take a look at what you have - it would be cheap insurance. Perhaps the dealer could recommend someone for you. Regards, Altazi
  5. Thank you Roger & Chas for taking the time to provide such worthwhile information. I'm sure the inclusion of a small circ pump is an arguable feature (not by me, necessarily), but surely EVERYONE can agree that gate valves on the pumps make sense. I can imagine the mess with gallons of water gushing out as you try to stick some kind of plug on the pipe. I do feel like I'm learning quite a bit about the various aspects of portable spas. Well-informed is well-armed. At least I think I could separate dealer BS from good information. Of course, there is still much more to learn! Regards, Altazi
  6. Thanks for the heap of information, Roger. There IS quite a bit to ponder before selecting a spa. I am not looking for a "value" brand; I expect to stay with the top brands, purchased from a local dealer with whom I feel comfortable. I wouldn't expect you to bad-mouth anyones products, but there's certainly nothing wrong in calling it as you see it - based on your experiences as a part-time maintenance tech. On the repairs that you do - what kind of problems do you see the most? Are they customer-caused? Normal wear-and-tear? I have heard that the little circulation pumps do need to be replaced - what is the failure mode? Do you get any warning - weird sounds or something - or does it just stop working altogether? How do you know when it dies? I imagine that all spas will need servicing at some point - which spas do you prefer to work on? Which ones do you find harder to service? The thermostatically-controlled light bulb in the equipment bay sounds like a good idea. Possibly a small fan to improve air circulation, too. This would have to be on a separate circuit from the spa, of course. Once I finally get my spa, I will perform a number of experiments with it - rate of temperature fall on removal of power, rate of temperature rise upon heating, pump run, etc. I can just see it: "No, you can't use the spa for a few days, I'm running an experiment!" Yeah, that would go over like a ton of bricks. Regards, Altazi
  7. Hi Roger, I am pretty much planning on engaging the services of a maintenance company. Based on your experience doing spa maintenance for others, do you believe that some spas are better at going unmonitored for longer periods than others? Have you seen any spas that seem more prone to various problems than other? Regards, Altazi
  8. I certainly didn't want to turn this into the same old "TP vs. FF" debate. I know that the Arctic spas design tries to capture the motor heat, as do some of the FF tubs. Kudos to them all! I have two additional concerns regarding my selection of a spa - freeze protection and water maintenance. My spa will be located at a vacation home, 180 miles from my primary residence. The vacation home is located in Central Oregon, where the weather can include several days in a row below freezing, and up to three feet of accumulated snow. There are times when we don't go to the vacation home for several weeks in a row. I am concerned about power outages and GFCI breaker trips. The power can be out for a couple of days maximum, but if the GFCI breaker trips when I am not there, it could be weeks before I would be back to check on it. Even the best-insulated FF spa could be frozen solid under these conditions. I do not want a portable skating rink! It does seem that, in the event of a power loss of a few days, the equipment area of a FF spa could be subject to quicker freezing than an Arctic tub. I haven't looked at many spas yet, but the FF spa's equipment area seemed to be insulated from the tub shell, and also seemed to have little in the way of insulation to the outside. I'd like a spa that will last as long as possible in freezing conditions - this gives me more time to arrange to have someone come out to check on things - or go there myself. I am trying to come up with a cost-effective way to monitor the spa over the Internet - at least to know if the power is on and the temperature is OK. There is the problem of firewalls and DHCP - no static IP address. I expect that I will need to engage the services of a spa maintenance company to check the water chemistry while we are away. I would therefore like to select a spa that does better at going from week to week with less "fiddling" with the water - if there is such a thing. I have heard that the Marquis tubs do a good job at this, and look forward to checking them out in person. Most of the posters on this forum seem to be discussing the spas at their primary residences, and so do not need to be quite as concerned about these two issues as much as I do. Regards, Altazi
  9. No, nothing was missing from my post. I was merely pointing out that it seems desirable to capture some of the waste heat from the motors. I wasn't discussing the effects of poor insulation. Furthermore, I never said that the motors were the ONLY heat source - I would expect that the thermostat would force the heater (and pump) to turn on as necessary. My point was, that with some of the motor's waste heat being captured in the water, the heater wouldn't need to come on as often. It certainly seems better than dumping 1kW+ of heat out into the air. Of course, you are correct - poor insulation would negate any gains you'd get in capturing the waste heat from the motors. Poor insulation will also require the heater to turn on more frequently. This is why having good insulation is of paramount importance. Regards, Altazi
  10. Horse? Dead horse? I don't see any horses around here, dead or otherwise. I do see a pulpy mess on the ground with a couple of bones sticking out, though I don't know all there is to know about spas, but I do know quite a bit about things electrical - including motors. The typical 75% efficient motor will produce about 250W of "waste" heat per motor horsepower - at full load. When you start talking about two or three 2+hp pumps running simultaneously, your motors can be pumping out well over 1kW of heat. Doesn't it seem a shame not to try to pump some of that "waste" heat back into the water? After all, the heat that is supplied by the motors is heat that DOESN'T need to be supplied by the heater. I have also seen some spa motors whose efficiencies are closer to 50% - talk about heat!!!! Regards, Altazi
  11. Grounding the rebar in the pad may be a requirement, as it is in my location. Also, the depth of the concrete pour, the size of the rebar, the placement of the rebar, etc. Lots of hoops to jump through. Regards, Altazi
  12. Nothing personal, of course. I figured that you would be one of the "good guys"! One of our friends was in the insurance business, and we had all of our stuff through him. He was great. Unfortunately (for us), he decided to move to a different industry, and his replacement was worse than useless. It all depends upon the relationship with your agent. I guess there's a parallel to the spa industry, as well; the support of a good, local dealer looks like it will weigh heavily in my decision on the spa. Long ago, a company president (Harvard MBA) once asked me "what is the purpose of our business?". I naively responded, "To make the best product we can, provide value and support to our customers," etc., etc. He replied, "No, the purpose is to provide value to our stockholders." So, I became a bit more cynical that day. Or, at least I understood the real nature of business. Regards, Altazi
  13. Well, I would guess that the policies are written in such a way as to specify obscure, yet widely encountered conditions under which the customers' claims can be denied. My internal cynic tells me that the insurance companies are there to pay dividends to their stockholders, not to help out their policy holders. Am I close to the mark? Best regards, Altazi
  14. Hello Wesj53, I was curious - as an insurance agent, have you had any claims relating to spas? You could be in an interesting position in having unique information. Again, congratulations on your purchase! I look forward to hearing your feedback. Regards, Altazi
  15. Hello Dennis, Your concept would have worked, except for the fact that your furnace doesn't throw out large quantities of heat OUTSIDE of its output duct. The typical spa jet pump motors are between 50% and 75% efficient, and can put out about 250W/hp (or more) of "waste" heat. This is a sizable percentage of the heater's power capability. Therefore, it is reasonable for the spa manufacturers to attempt to capture some of this waste heat and use it to heat the water in the tub. Regards, Altazi PS - The numbers: 1hp = 746W. For 1hp output power, a 75% efficient motor requires 995W of input power. The 249W of "overhead" is largely wasted as heat. At full load, a 3.5hp motor that is 75% efficient requires 3481W of input power; of this, 870W is mostly waste heat.
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