kbaumann

Taylor test FC 1.6 ppm CC .4 ppm PH 7.4 TA 350 CH 450/500 CYA none Test strips TC 1ppm FC 1ppm PH 7.4/7.6ish TA above 250 very high TH 500 CYA none or very low Numbers seem very odd.

bahahahaha.... Wow Bart.... You sound like my mom and dad right before they kicked me out of the house at 34.... Ok, here is the scoop.... I have a Hero from Sprint.... Purchased it with a smile because the salesman (woman) told me it can run iphone apts.... That is why I asked... I did get a apt downloaded that looks like it but has no place for Borates and CYA when calculating the CSI... All it has is pH, Temp, CH, and TA... Copyright 2009-2010 Green Brook Software

I am going to pick up some Leslies Blue Calcium Hypochlorite Tablets tomorrow… I want to experiment with taking a tab and putting it in a floater… I want to see how fast it dissolves in a spa at 102F-104F… I will use a floater where the bottom is sealed and then drill two 1/16” holes above where the tab will lay so there will not be anything to drop out as it dissolves… I know this will add calcium to the spa, but it will not add CYA… We have more room to play with calcium on the CSI… I also thought of wrapping the tab in .5 microm filter mesh to see if it will control the speed it releases/dissolves… This will be in a spa that is not used for the week and has a clean filter… Any ideas at all?

No responces????? wow =(

Went to the site... can not find it there... i searched under pool calculator. Any direct links?

I tried finding it!

Best bromine tabs to use?

Could someone give me a example of DBDMH tablets from either Leslies Pools or Thespadepot.com???

I need some clarification on “reservoir” in this statement: Richard stated, “…By having CYA in the water, you can have a reservoir of chlorine (as FC) so that you don't run out…” So what is taking place? As in this example used above: Richard stated, “In your example of 3 ppm with 20 ppm CYA, at spa temperatures this has the same active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) as about 0.7 ppm FC with no CYA so is roughly similar to 0.7 ppm FC with no CYA in terms of sanitizing power and oxidizing power…” The water has “a strength of” 0.7 ppm FC when it has “a reading of” 3 ppm FC with 20 ppm CYA present… as the pathogens are killed by this 0.7 FC and CC is produced, at that time does the CYA release more FC to maintain the 0.7 ppm FC? So basically releasing FC from the “reservoir” (the FC that is combined with CYA) as it is used up to maintain 0.7 ppm FC until its all gone? Does the 20 ppm CYA always keep a certain balance of chlorine in the water? When I hear “reservoir” I almost in vision a inventory that is restocked to the same level as it is sold. I am sorry for not being better at typing my thoughts so you can understand … Karl

I am trying to find the EPA registration? http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/chemical/foi...4703/014703.htm

Here is the MSDS for Clorox bleach. Clorox Bleach sold at your local supermarket has these ingrediants: Sodium hypochlorite 5 - 10% Sodium hydroxide <1% 2 mg/m1 Water PH 11.9 Liquid Clorinator hth sold at ACE Hardware stores for pools has these ingrediants: SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE 7.0 - 15.0 Water 73.0 - 87.0 Sodium hydroxide 0.5 - 2.5 SODIUM CHLORIDE 5.0 - 11.0 PH 12.0 - 14.0 QUOTE FROM HowStuffWorks: HERE "Chlorine itself is a gas at room temperature. Ordinary table salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) is half chlorine, and a simple electrochemical reaction with salt water produces chlorine gas easily. That same reaction produces sodium hydroxide (NaOH), and by mixing chlorine gas with sodium hydroxide you create sodium hypochlorite (NaOCl). When you buy a gallon of bleach at the grocery store, what you are buying is the chemical sodium hypochlorite mixed with water in a 5.25-percent solution. You're buying salt water that has been changed slightly by electricity. Chlorine is chlorine, so the chlorine in bleach is the same as the chlorine in drinking water and in a swimming pool. In fact, you can use chlorine bleach to treat a swimming pool or to treat drinking water. A gallon of bleach provides 1 part per million (PPM) of chlorine to 60,000 gallons (about 250,000 liters) of water. Typically, a pool is treated at a rate of 3 PPM, and drinking water is treated at anywhere from 0.2 PPM to 3 PPM depending on the level of contamination and the contact time. Chlorine is used in pools and drinking water because it is a great disinfectant. It is able to kill bacteria and algae, among other things. Chlorine also makes a great stain remover, but not because of the chlorine itself. Natural stains (as well as dyes) produced by everything from mildew to grass come from chemical compounds called chromophores. Chromophores can absorb light at specific wavelengths and therefore cause colors. When chlorine reacts with water, it produces hydrochloric acid and atomic oxygen. The oxygen reacts easily with the chromophores to eliminate the portion of its structure that causes the color. There has been a lot of discussion about the safety of chlorine in drinking water. It's not clear how safe or unsafe chlorine is, especially in PPM concentrations. But two things are clear: It's a whole lot safer to drink chlorinated water than water contaminated with disease-causing bacteria. Millions of people have died from water-borne diseases, and these diseases are largely eliminated in modern water systems through the use of chlorine. If you are worried about the chlorine in your water, all you have to do is let the water stand for a day or two in a loosely covered container in your refrigerator and the chlorine is eliminated."

Richard ~ Could you tell me the dosage that would be used for each product I am going to use? I dont know how much of a difference there will be with the extra additives there is in Fresh N Clear or the Lithium from In the Swim? SYSTEM USING MPS & NATURE 2 ACCORDING TO NATURE 2 (Using Leslies Fresh N Clear) 1) Before Use: Test the water with MPS Test Strip. If the MPS level is low, add 1/2 ounce of MPS to spa per 250 gallons. Retest. If the test strip indicates levels below the OK range, add 1/2 ounce MPS to spa per 250 gallons and re-test. Enter spa only after test strip indicates a sufficient level of MPS. 2) After Use: Add 1/2 ounce of MPS to spa per 250 gallons. 3) Will shock with Clorox Bleach 6% every 14 days. USING LITHIUM SHOCK ONLY (Using lithium from In The Swim) 1) After Use: Add 1 ounce of Lithium to spa per person-hour of soaking. 2) Will shock with Clorox Bleach 6% every 14 days. USING CLOROX BLEACH 6% ONLY 1) After Use: Add 5 fluid ounces of bleach to spa per person-hour of soaking. 2) Will shock with Clorox Bleach 6% every 14 days. USING LIQUID CHLORINATOR ONLY (Using HTH 10%) 1) After Use: Add _____ fluid ounces of bleach to spa per person-hour of soaking. 2) Will shock with Clorox Bleach 6% every 14 days. WITH MPS ACCORDING TO THE STATEMENT BELOW (Using Leslies Fresh N Clear) 1) After Use: Add 1.25 ounces of MPS to spa per person-hour of soaking. 2) Will shock with Clorox Bleach 6% every 14 days. Richard, you stated "...per person-hour of soaking in a hot (100-104F) tub is roughly 5 fluid ounces of 6% bleach, 3-1/2 teaspoons of Dichlor, 7 teaspoons of non-chlorine shock (43% MPS) or 5-1/2 teaspoons of Lithium Hypochlorite... " Also I remember reading you saying something about MPS oxidising certain things faster than chlorine???? Would it be ok to have MPS put in after the soak wiht chlorine as well? ALSO check my conversions from teaspoons to ounces... I have a feeling this will change from product to product? Thanks Richard! Karl

Thank you for both your concerns and advice! Everything that was said was beneficial! I know the direction I will take… I am going to used 3 methods. 1) Low to No chlorine method: Nature2 with MPS HERE (Leslies Fresh N Clear). I will supply the customer with the product and label it with instructions that are in the Nature 2 manual along with dosage that is custom to the size of spa they own. I will shock with liquid chlorine (hth 10%) only when needed. 2) Liquid chlorine method: Nature2 with liquid chlorine HERE (hth 10%). I will supply the customer with the product and label it with instructions that are in the Nature 2 manual along with dosage that is custom to the size of spa they own. I will shock with liquid chlorine (hth 10%) 3) Powder chlorine method: Nature2 with lithium HERE. I will supply the customer with the product and label it with instructions that are in the Nature 2 manual along with dosage that is custom to the size of spa they own. I will shock with liquid chlorine (hth 10%) Pricing will be different for each service. The labels will not be a problem. Everything will be looked over by an attorney and the customers will have a service agreement they will sign stating the liabilities and obligations of both parties involved. What I want to go back to is where Richard questioned why I want to use liquid chlorine. The reason is because of the customer only. The energy it will take to change a mind or to get warm and fuzzy feelings inside the customer is worth us paying a few extra dollars in product cost for the bottle/packaging. I want to be focusing our energy in building the relationship first… When a year of service has passed, and after a relationship of trust is established, we will consider change over to Clorox Bleach if it is cost effective. Questions I have: Is Clorox Bleach 6% and HTH liquid chlorinator 10% the same? What are the differences? Is there a better liquid chlorinator you know of? And Richard you stated above: “Why are you looking at 12.5% chlorinating liquid instead of 6% Clorox Regular bleach? The chlorinating liquid will not last as long -- it breaks down around 4 times faster than the bleach when in concentrated form. Also the bleach has the least amount of excess lye in it which means it will have the lowest rate of pH rise (accounting for chlorine consumption/usage).” Why? Could you give me more details about the differences and what to expect? What whould the dosage use be for the liquid chlorinator and lithium within the nature 2 manual guidelines HERE? Karl

Richard ~ I was looking to the 12.5% chlorinating liquid because I thought it was the same as the 6% Clorox Regular bleach, only more concentrated. The reason for looking at that product is simplely I feel asking the customers to use the 12.5% chlorinating product will be accepted long before the Clorox Bleach would. That is if I use the bottle/packaging/labeling the products come in and give to the customers that way. With cost as it is, I would love to be able to ask customers to use Clorox Bleach after each soak instead of lithium... But my concern is thier safty in using liquid and the costs for lithium would not be accepted at all by the customer as well. Maybe a hand pump on the bottle would work and make the liquid more user friendly... I could give directions labled on the bottle as to how many pumps per soak hour? But still I am in a situation where people will not be receptive of the bleach. Now I could relable the Clorox Bleach in a different bottle (with the very same lable safty information) and omit anything that has to do with Clorox at the same time giving the dosage amounts after soaks. But then I would have to find a bottle I could use that will hold Clorox Bleach and have a pump.... hmmmmm Any thoughts? I am thinking this is the direction that needs to be taken... Expense is low so people will be happy. ~ Karl

Notice how much less expensive per pound the chlorinating liquid is. It had better be because most of it is water, so what we really need to see is the cost per available chlorine and that is as follows: Trichlor Tabs/Pucks ......... $2.20 / 0.915 = $2.40 but $3.83 when accounting for Washing Soda to adjust pH Dichlor .......................... $2.60 / 0.554 = $4.70 but $5.73 when accounting for Washing Soda to adjust pH 73% Cal-Hypo ................ $2.40 / 0.724 = $3.31 Lithium Hypochlorite ....... $6.00 / 0.352 = $17.05 12.5% Chlorinating Liquid . $0.336 / 0.108 = $3.11 6% Bleach ..................... $0.15 / 0.057 = $2.63 WOW... Lithium is expensive. OK now I am looking at the 12.5% Clorinating Liquid... Tell me, do you know of a dispenser that I could buy... a bottle with like a pump on it... that would make it so I could just say put two pumps in after each man hour of soak... Something like that... I would like something simple for the customer to use a liquid... Opening a bottle and pouring it out to measure makes me fearful... I need to read more on what effect it has on TA and PH....