radante

Just an update, ChemGeek. Finally got the K-2006 test kit in. Having a hard time keeping CYA up above 30PPM. I tried a liquid form of CYA, might have to take the slow dissolve sock approach. My FC was 3PPM three days ago and is now 1PPM...so the CYA seems to be protecting the chlorine fairly well, despite likely being under 30PPM at the moment. CC is 0.5PPM. Since I'm using Copper Sulfate for my algae control, my PH was initially 8, then I added some muriatic to bring it down. CC has been 0.6 and 0.5 past few days...is shocking the pool the only way to bring it down to 0 in between bathers?

Ok. Got it. Since I'll be using copper sulfate weekly to control algae, a 2% FC/CYA ratio is my goal. So, to add 30 ppm CYA to my 18,000 gallon pool, I calculate that I'd need about 1.68 gallons of pure CYA initially, right? And then I add enough Liquid Chlorine (weekly) to give me FC of 0.6 PPM. I'm not sure how many gallons that will be yet as I just took over this pool and yet haven't tested it. I just calculated that 400 ml of 10% bleach will raise FC by 0.6... so if I can get the CYA to remain steady at 30PPM, then just 400 ml per day of 10% bleach would achieve the 2% FC/CYA ratio..correct?

Ok. Got it. Since I'll be using copper sulfate weekly to control algae, a 2% FC/CYA ratio is my goal. So, to add 30 ppm CYA to my 18,000 gallon pool, I calculate that I'd need about 1.68 gallons of pure CYA initially, right? And then I add enough Liquid Chlorine (weekly) to give me FC of 0.6 PPM. I'm not sure how many gallons that will be yet as I just took over this pool and yet haven't tested it.

Chem Geek, if I don't plan on using stablized tablets, would I need to worry about the ratio...for, where would the CYA come from? Can one just use bleach as their daily and/or weekly disinfectant...all while monitoring the active chlorine levels during the day so as to make sure it does not get too low? Also, it is a vinyl pool so I'm not too worried about the copper sulfate staining.

Chem Geek, if I don't plan on using stablized tablets, would I need to worry about the ratio...for, where would the CYA come from? Can one just use bleach as their daily and/or weekly disinfectant...all while monitoring the active chlorine levels during the day so as to make sure it does not get too low?

Indeed, I have (had) a mental block about chlorine...hence my turn to Hydrogen Peroxide. It's widely used in Europe as a pool disinfectant. The main issue with HP is its lack of lasting, residual power. It acts quickly, but like you said, you need a much greater volume and concentration for it to be fully effective. Still, with copper sulfate keeping my algae in check, the amount of Sodium Hypochlorite needed to keep my FC at 0.5 PPM or lower, should be extremely low. With a low bather load, I'm wondering if I would need to add a little liquid chlorine everyday at dusk or just a greater amount weekly. But I'm starting to think that simply Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate with Sodium Hypchlorite and the occasional acid to keep PH in check will suffice. I just ordered the K-2006 kit, so I'll be in a better position to know what's going on once it arrives.

Chem Geek, Isn't the Fenton's Reagent reaction a good thing? It is true that in the presence of a transition metal such as copper, hydrogen peroxide will react much more vigorously and aggressively than without the metal (acting as a catalyst) ... and this dramatically increases the oxidative strength of hydrogen peroxide. Won't this increase in oxidation power create numerous hydroxyl radicals (OH•) that will destroy the chemical bonds of all organic compounds in the pool very quickly? Also, can't Hydrogen Peroxide and Sodium Hypochlorite work synergistically on pathogens? (as described here): Synergistic antifungal activity of sodium hypochlorite, hydrogen peroxide, and cupric sulfate Finally, doesn't copper contribute to chlorine decay?

Perhaps it isn't? I'm thinking that Copper Sulfate as the main algaecide, combined with a 30% Hydrogen Peroxide weekly shock (or daily), would suffice as an algaecide, oxidizer and biocide.

Chemically-speaking, why is Hydrogen Peroxide counterindicated as a shock treatment when copper sulfate is used as an algaecide?

Ok, I've gone back and read your posts on multiple boards regarding the FC/CYA relationship and ideal ratio. I think I get it now. As for the ozone, isn't the issue that most generators don't have a high-enough output per hour to provide a sufficient residual? Wouldn't a 1.0g / hr ozone generator leave at least a small residual of dissolved ozone (say, 0.1PPM) that could, in theory, be effective against pathogens? You've written before that a hypochlorous acid level of less than 0.1 ppm is usually enough to meet the disinfection demands of a low-bather load residential pool, no? Isn't ozone even a more effective sanitizer than hypochlorous acid at lower concentrations and faster acting on contact? Also, is "The Circulator" a joke? I've read so many differing opinions. Would it actually, significantly improve circulation and dissolved ozone dispersion? I guess the whole problem in a nutshell could be the: "ozone to pool volume" ratio. With an 18,000 Gal pool, I'm thinking you can't generate ozone fast-enough to create a 0.1 PPM residual of dissolved ozone....

Thanks Chem Geek. I realize that I did equivocate there going from no-chlorine to low-chlorine. I think I've decided on working towards a low free chlorine (0.5 PPM) system achieved through: 1. Borates (Proteam SupremePLUS) 2. Mineral Feeder (Nature 2 Express) 3. Weekly Natural Enzyme/Phosphate Remover (e.g. CV-700) 4. PolyQuat60 weekly. 5. AquaRite Low Salt Generator. 6. Shock As Needed - Proteam Power Magic AC Superoxider or Shock & Swim. Hope to keep my Borate levels at 40-80PPM and Phosphate between 0-100PPB I'm not sure how low I can set the AquaRite Low Salt generator...but I think it can go down to 800PPM. Oh, one last thing: The pool was built in the 70s and is vinyl...would I need to ground it somehow or perhaps put an Anode in skimmer to eliminate chance of corrosion? And would you go Cupro-Nickel for the heat exchanger or would I not need to worry about it with such a low salt generator. Cheers!

Mighty Wizard of Water, I beseech you! Please indulge me for a brief moment and engage in this thought experiment: Part 1: If there was neither chlorine nor bromine nor biguanide left in the world and you absolutely had to find an alternative disinfectant/sanitization system, what combination of oxidizer, biocides and residual feeders would you choose for a 180000 Gal residential vinyl pool with an average bather load? Part 2: Could this real-life ultra-low chlorine combo work? Del-Ozone Eclipse 40 - Ozone Output of 1.0g / hr (to oxidize) Nature 2 Fusion Soft System (biocide & residual SWG). Boric Acid 50PPM CYA as needed. The occassional MPS shock treatment? Ok, so I know that the Nature 2 Fusion Soft produces a modicum of chlorine residual...but if you were to keep FC @ around 0.5PPM and dutifully monitor PH...is this a doable home system in your opinion with an IntelliFlo ® VF pump?