rabbit_ears

Weanut; Thought I would mention that I was at my Beachcomber dealer today for a second look and to ask about relocating the plumbing to another side of the tub as it wouldn't really work where it's currently located with my deck configuration. There is a $250 up-charge to move the plumbing which I think is really reasonable. I don't think you'd have much luck getting another spa maker to customize the plumbing for you. That said my dealer has been selling and servicing the brand for 17 years and i would be the third person to request a plumbing relocate so it's not a very common request but nice to know you have the option. I also got a quote on the 578 hybrid (which is what they're calling the LE tubs in '09) and it was only $200 more than my friend paid in '05 (same dealer). Take the plumbing surcharge into account and beachcomber hasn't raised their prices (at least at my dealer) over the past three years. compare that to the price discrepancies i got from arctic over the same time frame, the cost of their tubs have increased by over $2000. i know they weren't one of the brands that you were looking at and i can't speak to what sundance/jacuzzi prices are like as i don't have a local dealer any more. it's just one more example of why i feel comfortable dealing with beachcomber. I was very tempted to put my down but my wife is still undecided whether she likes the 578 or 580. I'm 98% certain we've decided on a brand but we'll have to wet/dry test to decide on the model. good luck on your search.

I too am researching new spas and have narrowed it down to a couple brands; beachcomber being the front-runner. I've yet to read a bad review of a beachcomber tub and they have been around for a long time. Sundance and Jacuzzi (same company) make a quality product for sure but bang for the buck and seating comfort I haven't found a tub that matches the Beachcomber. I'll probably get a 578 or 580 once the snow melts and i can run new electrical ('til then i will make due with the tub i have). I have a friend that's had a 578LE since '05 and has had zero service calls and says he didn't notice a change in his utility bill (even in Canadian climate).

What taxes apply to hot tubs purchases in Ontario? PST & GST or just one? I think I read on the board at one time that only one applies but I can't find that thread anymore and search doesn't work. Any help would be appreciated ($400 appreciated).

Anybody have any experience with Arctic Spa service? I realize there will be regional differences as each store is responsible for their own service contracting/training personnel (at least that's what i got from Tom's cryptic e-mail when i asked him). The reason I ask is that I narrowed my tub search down to Arctic (glacier) and Beachcomber (578). While I was at the Beachcomber dealer today a gentlemen came in and asked if they would service an Arctic tub as his tub was out of warranty and he couldn't get service from the dealer. I briefly talked to him and mentioned that I was looking at the two brands and he assured me i was at the right dealer. I know there are a lot of pro-Arctic people on the board (including mod(s)) but i was wondering if this was an anomaly or if Arctic service is really non-existent. I have a tub now that i have to do all my own maintenance on, i'm not looking to get into a similar situation. I have no doubt that Arctic makes a fine product but from the used car salesman approach and the apparent lack of after-sales support is this a smart place to spend my hard earned $$? I would like to hear any corroborating or contradictory experiences other board members may have experienced; especially those in the Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario area.

visited my local Arctic dealer today and ruled out the Yukon because of pump placement and inaccessibility for my situation. also i didn't care for the seating. there's only one seat deep enough for me (i'm only 6'2"), all other seats had the head rest not on my head but between my shoulder blades. i could slouch so that the headrest were where they should be but the deep contoured seating is somewhat prohibitive. which brings me to the seat which was deep enough, it had the same issue as the bullfrog where it was like sitting on the ground, though not as bad because they've sunk the back of the seat and raised the front giving a little more of a footwell. i also found this seat a little restrictive (a little bit too deep contour). I am going to go back to the dealer to test drive the Glacier which they have in the show room filled with water; allegedly running with the pump unplugged to show that it maintains 103° from the heat captured from the pump during the filtering cycle, of course they wouldn't tell me what the filter cycle was set for (24hrs?) and also a little curious as two of the access panels were removed on the pump side. never-the-less the people here seems to like them (doesn't hurt that the moderators work for the company) so i figure they're worth a look. not exactly budget tubs though at almost $2K more than a beachcomber.

my short list has been shortened to 3. Bullfrog is out because it's like sitting on the ground. the spa is deep enough to keep most of my upper body submersed but the footwell is really shallow, which is ok if you're alone but put even one other person and you'll be playing footsies unless you both tuck your knees under your chin. this is not something that was readily apparent just looking at the tub but was evident within 5 seconds by dry testing. i plan on doing the same thing with an arctic sometime soon. i checked out beachcomber and dry tested one this afternoon as well and it seems like a really nice unit. comfortable, well built and the dealer is great-family owned business that's been selling the brand for 17 years. not a whole lot of info on this site about beachcomber though. i read/heard somewhere that 1 in 3 hot tubs sold in Canada is a beachcomber. i'm sure the percentage is less south of the 49th but that still a lot of tubs. the only slightly negative things i've read about them was an undersized heater that would drop a couple degrees when in use in the winter. that problem has apparently been rectified with a 5.5kW heater. i haven't made up my mind entirely yet, although it's starting to sound like i have. i will report my thoughts regarding the other two manufacturers on my list (Arctic and Paragon) after closer examination and dry/wet testing. i also think i've decided to definitely go with a circ pump but no ozone; i just don't see the benefits if you can maintain proper water chemistry without it. just added maintenance costs. Again any personal experience with Beachcomber, Arctic or Paragon that you could share would be greatly appreciated.

Hillbilly; could you be a little more specific about the things you see in the field? do you get more service calls for the other brands than you do for arctic? a lot of other dealers that i talk to when i mention i've been shopping around and am considering arctic amongst other brands pretty much verbatim they mention about how small the access panels are on the arctic. is this a warranted concern? i know it's somewhat biased and jaded coming from other dealers but the fact that they all say the same thing? what are you thoughts about my other questions: circ pump over programmed main pump? UV over ozonator?

thanks waterboy, i know about the composite skirting for the arctic (and there's no way i wouldn't go that route after what i went through with the cedar skirt on my current tub-painted green when i moved in, spent weeks stripping and re-staining). i was referring to the wood framing inside. maybe it's not a big deal because my house is framed with wood but if there's a possibility for rot, mold, insect/rodent damage why not avoid it?

Looking at replacing my old Maax spa with a new one (but probably not 'til spring now). My old tub was wired with 8ga so i'll have to trench and run 6ga and there's a foot of snow out now. anyways have narrowed my search to four brands; Paragon, Beachcomber, Arctic and Bullfrog. I've looked at others but i have some logistics problems as far as where the steps in the spa are in relation to the pumps as the tub is set at the end of the deck and if the pumps are under the steps i wouldn't have access unless i drained the tub and pulled it out. also eliminated some other fine tubs (caldera/hotsprings) because i don't trust the dealer. As far as equipment goes i think i've decided that i want circ pump but leaning away from an ozonator. might consider uv in its place though. i don't have an ozonator on my current tub so i don't have any experience with it, but there seem to be a lot of people having problems with them and their settings and ruining pillows and underside of covers. is this a fair statement? anybody have any experience with uv in a tub? Paragon and Arctic both use modified version of the thermopane insulating principle which i like, because it makes sense to capture that heat and gives access to plumbing etc. Bullfrog and beachcomber are both full foam which has a proven history. however arctic and beachcomber both use wooden framing structure while the others use composite. which i think is better for a wet environment, not that it should be wet but things happen. if any of you are familiar with paragon and are thinking that all paragon tubs have their pumps under the steps so why are they in the running? i live in southern ontario, a couple hours from the factory and my dealer called them and they are willing to reroute plumbing to put the pumps wherever necessary to accommodate me. also willing to raise a couple of the seats (2-4") as my wife is a foot shorter than i am and most of the seats in the paragon tubs are deep. all things being equal where would you put your money? if price difference between each tub was negligible, wet tests proved all to be equally comfortable and each dealer had good service what factors would you look at to base your final decision? should i be concerned with wooden substructure rotting? what is the life expectancy of a tub? is there any one of the brands that i've chosen that clearly doesn't belong with the others? is there one that stand out above the rest? if so why? i'm pretty sure any one of these will be a step up from what i currently have and a substantial savings in operating cost. PLEASE HELP ME SPEND MY HARD EARNED MONEY WISELY.

elbrecht has the most effective solution with his heated closet but if you don't want to got to that much trouble and expense then i agree with smilinbare; don't bring your robe/towel outside it will get cold while you're in the tub. i've had my tub for five years now and as long as it's not the middle of the day i walk out to the tub in the buff. soak for 20+ minutes at 102-104°F and i find that sufficient to raise my core temperature enough that i don't feel the cold when i get out, provided it's not too breezy (the wind is a killer when you get out). the you can go in the house and get into your nice warm robe or towel off. i close the cover from inside the tub as i'm exiting. if you're getting cold as soon as you get out of the tub i might suggest that your tub might be too cool; i keep mine at 98-100° in the summer and 102-104° in the winter months.

thanks for the response poolman. i was out on the weekend and stopped by the bullfrog dealer. they only had three tubs on the floor (all dry) but i kicked off my shoes and jumped in. the seats felt pretty comfortable. again part of what's appealing to me in the ease of repairing/replacing jets. my biggest complaint about my current maax spa is that none of the rotating massage jets move anymore. the jets all seems to be pointing in the wrong directions and not giving much in the way of hydrotherapy. i do have a hydropool dealer in my area and was going to stop by but i had the kids with me and they were running out of patience so i took them to a matinee movie instead. i'd be interested in hearing some of your stories about arctic and bullfrog and also what you see as the finer point of the hydropool spas. i usually only change my tub water about every 4-6 months so i questioned the benefit of the self pumping tub.

I'm researching a new spa to replace my tired old Maax spa. the top three tubs that i've looked at/researched that are sold in my immediate area are: Arctic, Bullfrog and Sunrise/Paragon. I like the full frame and composite cabinet of the Bullfrog and Paragon spas. Acrtic seems to rely totally on foam sprayed on the cabinet to hold everything together. Is this a valid concern? Also not a fan of the cedar cabinet after having one. not looking for more maintenance. I like the physics behind the Heat Lock system of the Arctic, Paragon uses a variation of it but uses bags of roxul insultaion around the perimeter which i would think would be succeptible to settling over time. Bullfrog's claim of being able to move jet paks around may sound like a gimmick and one would question how often you would move the paks around. i would question this as well but the benefit as i see it would be to set the seats up as you like it. i use my current tub 5+ nights a week and 80-90% of the time i'm alone so having the jet pak i like where i like would allow me to only open half the cover. however if i go to bullfrog's website and design a spa even with the largest pump configuration (2x 4.8HP) by the time you add 5 or 6 jet packs the power rating drops below "optimal". I have yet to wet test any of these tubs, just wondering if anyone could substantiate any claims from either of these manufacturers so i could narrow down the search. Thanks in advance for any advice or opinion(s).