Veronica

BIG HUGGS to you!!!!! AND THE MRS. for good measure..... Clay, I'm interested if you've made a decision or ruled any out in your spa purchase? I'm still deciding, but want desperately to get back in a tub, any observations in the last spa search days? Wet tests? etc...

Wow! From a "newbie" viewpoint, THIS is what I'm looking for! I feel thoroughly "schooled". This information is invaluable! It totally takes away any anxiety that comes from having at least "the occaisional jet pop out", and offers EVERY way possible to rectify the problem. It also steers us in the right direction for more answers or resolutions. It looks to me like this, along with some of the other great information here, could be "cut and paste" into our own personal manuel to use any time, over the years. ( At least with respect to the manufacturer above, I have to say there is, not a whole heck of al ot of "troubleshooting" information listed. The manuel is listed on the web site in full.) Maybe, if we were armed with more information like this above in the first place, it would deter us consumers from our first reaction to make an nervous onslaught of calls requesting answers, trying all recommendations listed, and then making calls for help as a last resort....

I'm a newbie here with a similar past experience, so I can totally understand your frustration. I have learned a lot in the last couple of days, about the Dealer's responsibilty too. I'm actually thinking about buying another Hydro Spa, believe it or not, through a better dealer who promises to address these problems personally. Have you had any luck with the company you bought it from?

LOL!!!! Something TOLD me this was a fun loving crowd, please tell your wife, I meant NO disrespect WHATSOEVER, and could NEVER hope to compete! She's gorgeous!.....You better watch out SpaMan, I think some of the other guys here might fight ya for her!

Come on Spa Man...the more the merrier and he doesn't have a costume or cape so what are you worried about?

Spa Man: You (and Amanda) are WAY too cute! I'm prepared to hug ANY TIME he is , (I'll even break out into a nice mushy tune, like....."What the (spa world) needs now is love sweet love"....or, "What's so funny 'bout Spas, Love and Understanding?".......any requests?

DR....I didn't take issue specifically with your Artic Spas stats, another member did under two different topics. I didn't suggest that you would confirm the stats you got from your secondary source, you did. If you simply go to the BBB.org site versus the local sites you offered, and do a company check it lists all possible matches for anything that comes close to the name you type in, in their entire NATIONAL network and then you may have to dig a little deeper as I have to verify and confirm history, no need even jump around to the local office sites because thay are networked. ....and I did not file a complaint with BBB for a refund, they actually give you an option of what you want or need. I specifically stated it was FOR THEIR INFORMATION only. I have finally been promised a refund and I'm happy to be put in their "resolved" stats now that they have removed the tub. Again, my only intention was to accurately inform new would-be consumers. You listed every major brand and stats purporting to be from the BBB, but failed to mention that out of every brand listed, they are ALL in good standing and Hydro Spa is listed as NOT in good standing. This is an irreffutable fact given at least my reading of the primary source, but hey what do I know about reading statistics?

No Spa Man, I no longer believe Dr Spa to be connected to them in any way, given the information you gave me under the BBB topic listing, and I appologized and I would also direct people to him for advice given his reputation. Also, I agree...talking to existing spa customers (i.e. I was and plan to be one) and local dealers is much better than any information. Ironically, in a way, I can serve to protect DRSPA's reputation, as he has at least been willing to concede he got his BBB numbers from a secondary source (the "Wet test"....that I also LOVED and found very useful)...the part that scares me is his suggestion that the top brands all had multiple complaints and Hydro Spa only had three out of 100,000 so the information could be construed as them being good to their customers. That just ain't the facts folks.....THEY are they only one out of the brands DRSPA listed and called into question that are in a NEGATIVE standing with the BBB, which I have to suggest might mean: not only do they not bother to resond to their consumers, but they don't even care to offer the BBB, at least a nationally recognized agency regarding business practices, a response. (plus other complaints on other sites, plus evidence of a class action suit against a company they seem to be connected to, plus the fact that they manufacture under other brands but are still responsible for customer service as the manufacturer). Besides just going and buying my new spa, I can't help but want to protect and empower others from the same type of experience I had, by my OWN mistakes. BUT I absolutely, sincerely, whole-heartedly appologize for my less than restrained language towards DRSPA and await some confirmation that the facts he posted as true, have been checked, corrected or verified, as he suggested he would be happy to do.

[Whew!!!....OK....I gotta admit, the hug thing felt pretty good!!!,.... Wow! feeling better (I was beginning to think this forum was a branch of the Bush Administration!)....and your are so right Spa Man, if you guys attacked Amanda, who seems to me, to have the purest heart of gold on this forum, I think I WOULD defend her 'til cyber-death' here. By the way, she makes an excellent point about looking dealers in the eyes when we make a major investment into their product (for my bank account...at least....anything over a $100 dollars would be considered rather "major"). I DO believe another big mistake I made was buying online when the price WAS too good to be true. ....Again, You have ALL been an enormous help in meeting my needs here! I was directed here by a local dealer, who wanted to demonstrate to me she had nothing to hide less than a week ago. I have learned TONS about the industry and the brands and how to deal with less-than-what-should-be-even-minimally-required-by-way-of-customer-service. I believe, unless and until "banned", I now intend on remaining a member of this "Spa Society" as well as others because: 1.) I haven't purchased spa #2 yet (which I pray I will own, maintain, and enjoy for a looong time to come due in part, to the assistance of this forum's information). 2.) I learn more and more about spas here every day and they are clearly something that adds such value to my personal life, that despite being a confessed "newbie", I have become QUITE passionate about them! 3.)As a person who has gravitated towards advocating for the "Under Dog" my whole life, I believe that I can add something here by way of empowering other newbie consumers and holding dealers and manufacturers to industry standards for service, integrity & accountability. With that said, in reviewing some of my aggressive language to the Doc, (not understanding he was apparently quoting someone else's apparent innacurate stats OR his "impecable" reputation as an information provider here), I now understand it was NOT appropriate and I apologize, as I was misdirecting to him, the anger I felt towards my antagonist-manufacturer (now also subsiding somewhat, due to the haul away on Sunday ). In response to another member's confirmation that his Artic Spas stats were off, DRSPA has at least, cleared some of his questionable assertions up under another topic "...6,500..." by acknowledging the stats he posted were NOT from the BBB, but from the personal "Wet Test" commentary on another site (which I also enjoyed thoroughly and found VERY helpful), and offered to check them out. (has he?) If I recall, the beginning of this "joust" correctly, the most offensive part was that Doc suggested that Hydro Spa sold over 100,000 spas over the last 36 months and only received 3 complaints to the BBB, while the industry leaders suffered from many more complaints, and then he listed his stats that did not add up, upon my quick reference check to the primary source (the BBB). I believe he actually asserted that the stats could be interpreted to suggest that Hydro Spa is great company to buy a spa from given a review of their record with the BBB.....while my ongoing research seems to suggest, not only are they absolutely NOT, but 1.) it would appear that they are connected to a class-action suit that began yesterday for some of the same type of stuff I experienced (i.e. SunDaze Spas???), 2.) that they are not easily identifiable because they manufacture for other names (i.e. Costco Elite), and 3.) that out of all major brands listed, they are the ONLY manufacturer that ACTUALLY has a NEGATIVE (meaning to me, "be careful, this company didn't even care to give US the curteously of a response!!!!") from the BBB. Given DRSPA's impeccable reputation on this forum, as a sort of industry-expert that we consumers rely on for important information, I believe he may have a heightened responsibility to clear this assertion up. I only merely suggest that, because, honestly, if I did not know any better, like "Robin" who is soliciting information about buying a spa, just like I am, .....I would have weighed his comments into my decision to buy a spa, and for example, in trusting his information as valid may very well have ran off and bought a Hydro Spa over all the other major brands IN GOOD STANDING with the BBB he listed, not understanding Hydro Spa's REAL and NEGATIVE BBB history. In short, to answer your very kind and sincere response SPAMAN, the way you guys can all help us "newbies" and give us what we all need as "newbie consumers", I would suggest, is the same thing here, we all need every where ....TRUST in the INTEGRITY of your WORD, this makes us ALL, happy, hot, soaking spa customers...!!!! Thanks for listening!

I so did not mean to offend! If I had a Costco nearby, I would high tail it over there and check out the spa's given all the positive things written here! The thing that promted my response at all, was reading that some people are being directed to Hydro Spa's customer service line, and to "Alan" et. al. which suggests that they might be at least the manufacturer of some of these spas. If that is the case, I feel obliged at the very least to encourage and empower folks on here, ONLY IF they have problems and furthermore would be happy to personally share my experience with them if the going gets tough. This site helped me get some satisfaction, and if I could help, in any way someone else who might fall victim to the rare instance of less- than dilligent accountability by any spa manufacturer, like I wish I had had, you can bet I have been motivated to try and return the favor and be there for them. That's not wrong is it? But what I really hope and wish, is that these people have no problems whatsoever and totally enjoy their spa's, because as I have stated before, the similar product I purchased as my first spa (with similar specs you have listed above Nightryder) when it worked, was FANTASTIC and made me a new spa owner FOR LIFE! The experience of the seats, pressure of the jets, ease of water care, etc....were all fine, it was the service, the very same number and person listed above, that broke down too often when things went wrong that compelled to me to write. Again, I appologize if the two are unrelated, but I read these comments to understand that Hydro Spa is the manufacturer of at least some portion of these spas while Costco is the vendor. Just trying to keep them honest.

Wow, you guys are hard core! I think even DRSPA would be willing to, or HAS actually conceded that he did not confirm the stats against the major brands he listed as being accurate as he took them from a secondary source, he offered to contact that source to confirm the stats, will I get "banned" if I ask if that was done? It's just as easy to do so by going to the BBB.org site. DRSPA'S and others' point about the weight to give BBB stats is well taken, but anybody see mine about being able to rely on what has been printed as true??? If it's not true, than isn't this pretty misleading to consumers who come here to gather useful information before making a purchase?....and then instead of taking two minutes of your own time just to look and perhaps clarify something, you would rather NOT look, and gang up the consumer until you feel righteous enough for a group hug? What is wrong with holding dealers and people in the spa business to the notion of professional integrity? I don't get it? You're the experts....if someone is posting statistics about consumer complaints logged in and recorded by an entity that hold's themselves out as a guardian of professional integrity (i.e. the BBB), shouldn't they be accurate? ESPECIALLY, given the small size of your market? No one has bothered to just look and see that they are not accurate except Conan about Artic Spas complaints? I don't get it.....?

CHAS, (or anyone who cares to simply check the stats re: complaints filed against companies with the BBB for the major brands listed above, or any brand....versus what was printed on the "Wet Test site" and copied onto this forum as having come from the Better Business Bureau, can go to BBB.org and check on any company, including spa companies). Again, I do agree with my own critics, who suggest that using the BBB as an end all, be all to judging the integrity of a company would not be prudent given their own agendas, but for what it's worth the information about HOW the company addressed it's customer's complaints and WHAT the complaints were about as well as whether the issues ultimately got resolved does give information that could be useful to any consumer facing a problem. AND Having just filed my complaint with them, and exoecting nothing in return but just to warn and alert consumers, I can say from personal experience that the BBB does have to confirm the validity of the complaint. They ask for serial #, order #, my address, phone, dealer and manufacturer and they contact these parties to get their side of the story before any of these stats are posted. Out of all the companies listed as haveing a lot of complaints by DRSPA, if you look you will see NONE of them have a "NEGATIVE" rating for bad corporate response, they are all in "GOOD STANDING" while Hydro Spa, (and I'm sure some limited others) actually does have a BAD BBB RATING!!!! If I had only known that much before my purchase, it would have changed things for me.

Spa Man, I do not want to offend you in any way. I have found your comments on this forum to be totally accurate and helpful. I have even directed people who have contacted me personally to YOU for advice because I admittedly don't know the first thing about spas. All I am asking is for an explination about the inaccuracy of his comments attacking the integrity of major brands. I am buying my second spa within the next couple of weeks and those stats that he posted would or should be a MAJOR concern for new consumers. I am here for 2 reasons. 1.) to get helpful information and 2) to warn NEW spa consumers like myself from the perils of making uneducated decisions, like the one I made, and thus suffering from the same mistakes. If you go to the BBB site, you will confirm DRSPA statements re: major brands to be innacurate (that his original posting provided no source for). BUT, DRSPA was good enough to reference the SECONDARY site where he got the stats: that I will ALSO SAY is a VERY HELPFUL AND INFORMATIVE source regarding the personal experience of wet tests with what would appear are some inaccurate facts concerning BBB stats. I QUOTE DRSPA HERE: Independent Wet Test Report and Spa Review from "another" message board; http://www.members.cox.net/duffman471/Spa_...ng_Analysis.htm I didn't bother to varify the "facts" as the poster/author appears to have a lot of credibility. If you like, I'd be more than happy tyo ask him for the source of his facts. As a side note, ya might like this; http://www.naas.org/dirty.htm or not I find these sources to be equally as helpful as other secondary and personal sources for spa consumer educatiion. The posting here, simply asks for anyone to help clarify the stats issue. If you are not willing to at least look at the primary source (i.e. the actual BBB.org site) to help us all explain the difference than I won't take any offense, but what if the negative and innaccurate stats he posted dealt with spas that should enjoy a better reputation for their service and integrity? That's not too fair I think. I think every newbie consumer here would benefit from questioning peoples motives but I, unlike others will only say I am a total straight shooter. I have nothing to hide, I publically post my identity and contact information and nothing to gain but the two objectives I've listed above. That's it. Won't you at least check the primary source BBB.org and help us all understand where the disparity lies in the two sets of numbers? Here's what I saw on the BBB site to the best of my brief review: Be sure to look at the RESULTS of the BBB complaints filed! According to the BBB.org web site:] Given at least, a more in depth, clearer reading of the site stats: SINCE of MAY OF 2003 - (RE: 36 month history?) ARTIC (Spas, Pools & Stoves of Portland Oregon) - 1 complaint = resolved HOT SPRINGS - ALL LISTINGS (approximately 2-5 complaints in 36 months ALL RESOLVED COLEMAN SPAS (MAAX) - 1 complaint, in good standing RESOLVED MASTER SPAS - of all listings of potential sub cos. between 2 - 7 complaints all resolved or addressed and in good standing. JACUZZI - 32-to 33 complaints total of all sales (that could include tubs in in the bathroom????) - ALL RESOLVED & in GOOD STANDING WITH THE BBB! DYNASTY - 10 complaints - RESOLVED, CLOSED or UNPURSUABLE ------------------------------------------------------------------ COMPARED TO HYDRO SPAs - in Clearwater FL, 10 complaints, 2 UNRESOLVED, THE ONLY BBB UNSATISFACTORY RECORD LISTING out of all DRSPAS suggested service" faux pas" list!!! BUT HEY!!!!!!!!!!!!! THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH DRSPA!!! Because of you, upon closer inspection of the BBB site, I finally found what might be a solid lead on the Nexus between a CLASS ACTION SUIT filed against SUNDAZE - a Hydro Spa subsidiary???

Yes, I had a similar model purchased online as a Hydro Spa, (I dealt with "Alan" and Michelle, and Mark, and Hank) as the people above did. My electric bill jumped to near $100 or more even in the summer months (to compensate for a defective heater). I agree with Amanda here. I owned one of these Hydro Spas, what I saved in money, I paid dearly for in AGGREVATION......BUT with a dealer/vendor (Costco) nearby and a good return policy, you folks should have a better time getting a refund if it should become necessary. (I bought one online through Discount Spas Direct and I had to beg, plead, and threaten legal action to get Hydro Spa to refund my defective spa that has been collecting dust in my back yard since last June....they JUST picked it up yesterday!!!!!). ...ALSO, if you purchase this spa, and anything happens, do not necessarily expect reliable customer service from the manufacturer. If you are directed to call Hydro Spa (Alan, Mark, Hank, Michelle.....might try to blame you for problems that arise). I would advise you to write down every time you call, who you speak with, what is discussed and promised within what time frame. ..OR communicate via e-mail so that you can have everything documented. Be careful about the innocent information you offer them that might be spun around in a way for them not to be responsible: For example: The people that just wrote about their difficult ride home on this forum, might have, all but voided their warrenty now, because it was my experience, that Hydro Spa's policy was to BLAME THE CUSTOMER FIRST, or the local repair guy, or the electrician, or the dealer.....if a problem arises now (as I believe some could very well experience in the next 3 months, if you sacrifice too much by way of quality for savings, like I did)....I believe, they will look for ways to blame it on you and they read the postings on this forum so watch out! If something does go wrong, like broken or falling out jets, heater, etc...Don 't give up!!!!!... and don't believe them, check their reputation with the BBB, they have a history of doing this. Understand your rights, and it will give you a clear mind to deal with them! But AGAIN, COSTCO's return policy sounds awesome.

Yes, I had a similar model purchased online as a Hydro Spa, (I dealt wilt "Alan") as the people above did. My electric bill jumped to near $100 more even in the summer months!