Orion6192

Good day all! Question - because I think I may have been doing this incorrectly all these years... is the water balancing. I always used Nitro's water balancing write up. I also use the bleach / dichlor method. So to my question... if you read the write up on how to balance the water, you test FC, PH, TA and CH. Starting numbers were this after first aeration and dosing tub to 5ppm with dichlor: FC 5.0 PH 8.0+ TA 210 CH 190 So - I always calculated to get the number close to zero or slightly negative, which would tell me to shoot for: FC 5.0 PH 7.6 TA 90 CH 190 But... if I follow Nitro's post, and it could be my interpretation, is you shoot for 70 and keep adding acid per the calculator, cutting the amount in half and then running a cycle with full air. Keep reducing TA until PH gets to 7.6. So - this time I started with 70 as my number and started reducing. My issue is that during aeration, my PH will go to or over 8.0. It never drops down much below 7.8 and usually is at 8.0 with aeration during the cycle. But after the tub sits, like overnight, it'll drop to 7.2 - 7.6 range depending. I thought, but never tried it until now, is add acid and cycle until PH reaches 7.6 and then add your Borates to lock it all in. I just never seem to get my PH down with the jets running. Here was Nitro's quick guide in his write-up: So, let's get started. Here is the process. 1. Turn on all your jets and air features and keep them on the entire process. (i.e. Aerate) 2. Calculate how much you want to lower your TA, and how much acid you need to add to lower it. 3. Add to the tub HALF (not > 1 cup nor < 1 TBS) of the amount of the remaining acid you need to add. 4. Aerate for 30min, and check TA/pH. 5. If TA > Target and pH is > 7.8, goto step 2. 6. If TA > Target and pH is < 7.6, goto step 4 one time. 7. If TA > Target and you can't get pH > 7.8 via aeration, Target too low. Stop here. 8. If TA = Target and pH is > 7.8, Target too high. Lower Target TA and goto step 2. What am I over thinking on this?

I would concur with the BioFilm. Read my account here and my transition to Ahh-Some. I always purged twice a year with SeaKlear for the past 3-1/2 years- just recently made the change and so far it's been eye opening and works really well. It will take dilegence if you have never purged your spa before. Not just empty and refill, actual purge. And not all spa cleaners / purgers are created equal. I bought the 6oz container - $50 on amazon but wanted to make sure I could repeat a few in a row as needed to clear my tub. I have since bought another $50 tub to have on hand as I went through all 6oz - and my water was always clear. Who would have known. Ignorance in this case is not bliss. But the time and effort of the purge is Ahh-Some. http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?/topic/47834-hot-tub-green-water-color-issue-after-clean-fill-help-ahh-some-convert/

I always purge every drain - just did it with SeaKlear. Now I will use Ahh-Some.

So I've read all of Nitro's and ChemBear's posts and have balanced my tub before - but this time I am questioning my approach and looking for some direction. My numbers: TA:220 CH:320 PH:8.0 FC:5.4 CYA: 4.86 - will go to 35 Borates: 0 - will go to 50 I cannot get the number close to zero and I am questioning my method. Reading Nitro's article: 1. Turn on all your jets and air features and keep them on the entire process. (i.e. Aerate) 2. Calculate how much you want to lower your TA, and how much acid you need to add to lower it. 3. Add to the tub HALF (not > 1 cup nor < 1 TBS) of the amount of the remaining acid you need to add. 4. Aerate for 30min, and check TA/pH. 5. If TA > Target and pH is > 7.8, goto step 2. 6. If TA > Target and pH is < 7.6, goto step 4 one time. 7. If TA > Target and you can't get pH > 7.8 via aeration, Target too low. Stop here. 8. If TA = Target and pH is > 7.8, Target too high. Lower Target TA and goto step 2. So this I have done but I'm not sure I can get my tub to "0". Especially with a high PH. As my tub sat last night my numbers were: TA:60 CH:320 PH:8.0 FC:5.4 CYA: 4.86 - will go to 35 eventually Borates: 0 - will go to 50 once the rest gets dialed in. CSI: .36 Once I hit CYA 35 and Borates 50 that takes me to .16 - again all assuming the PH of 7.8. I'm targeting TA 55 which would drop me to a CSI of .1 once I hit CYA 35 and Borates 50. Didn't have time for another cycle last night. And just to be clear - PH should be measured after aerating correct? I'm thinking more on a daily basis to check. After aerating I can't get it below 7.8-8.0 but once it sits it may drop down to 7.6. I'm confused - looking for someone to run the numbers and tell me what they think. Appreciated! Scott

I hate to see a thread go dark with no conclusion because it doesn't help anyone looking for similar answers to their problems. So I will update where I am in this journey - who would have thought it would have been this difficult! I'm going to jump to 9/13 because all the above info leads into this. So at this point, I have been working on this tub since 9/5 - Labor Day - 9 days. SeaKlear flush until clean and then the green yellow water started. So 9/13 - I had been using Ahh-Some purge after purge and on this day I was at purge #6. Add it to the tub, run with all jets and air, 5ppm of bleach added, wipe off scum line after foam settles, and skim off the floating scum, drop in my pump and drain and rinse / wipe the tub. This time I only got a little brown deposit in the foam that showed up as a tan swirl. I felt I was good to go and refilled the tub and it filled up what appeared to clear water finally - no tint. Set the temp to 101F added dichlor 10ppm and let it sit over night and wanted to check it in the AM to make sure it was going to stay clear - no color. 9/14 - Next morning, clear water finally! Reach in the tub and my walls were like sandpaper - and it didn't want to wipe off very easily with a microfiber. Never had this issue. My CH is high 320 and my TA is 220. I have never use a scale or stain inhibitor - never had this issue. So I let the tub while I was at work and it had gotten more build up - not visible, but tactile. So I balanced my tub and thought if it sat over night it would loosen or dissolve the build-up. Oh the ignorance. I also remembered that I had a brown swirl during the last Ahh-Some purge so I made the choice to take my crystal clear balanced water and do one more Ahh-Some purge and then dump it. While I was dumping it I did a 50/50 of white vinegar and water and washed the walls - worked amazing - no scale on the tub walls anymore. In the pipes, heater, etc. - probably. So that made purge #7 - and I got some more gunk out and wiped, rinsed and refilled - to yellow green water! I added some dry acid at this point to drop the TA a little and left them temp at 65 and went to bed. Next morning green yellow water still so I added another dose of Ahh-Some and let it run and then soak all day while I was at work and drove an hour to get some Scale and Stain inhibitor. 9/15 - Got home from work, a significant amount of brown stuff - but not out of control or unsuspecting. Frustrated beyond all recognition at his point - not because the tub had more brown gunk, but it seemed like I wasn't gaining either. The SeaKlear didn't produce any more brown after the first two flushes. I had been communicating with Doug over email (dlleno) and he kept me directed toward the repeated purging - which without his pushing me I'm not sure I would have kept it up this long, so thanks! But having and engineering background I called Unique Solutions (makers of Ahh-Some) and nobody answered... but guess what - caller ID and Jerry called me back without leaving a message. Ahh-Some is his product. I spoke with him for over 20 minutes and explained everything to him from soup to nuts about what I had been doing and he told me to stop. Stop? My water is clear, but tinted green. Jerry said I have probably gotten near the end of the what I could clean with over 4 years of build-up and using SeaKlear, which he acknowledged was a good product. He believes his product cleans deeper. My issues are that he says I am wasting product by doing flush after flush at this point. He said to leave the tub filled with the clear green tinted water. Take 2oz of Ahh-Some and dilute it in 128oz (1 gallon) of water and make sure its fully dissolved. Balance the tub, add dicholor if that is what i am using, I also added scale and stain inhibitor as I filled the tub - first time ever, and he said in the morning your tub will be clear with no color and it is considered a "maintenance dose". He wanted me to do this "maintenance dose" every seven days for the next 4-6 weeks before my winter dump and rinse and get ready. So I installed my filter, balanced my water as close as I could get last night (about 95% - still need to add the borates and readjust) and went to bed. Jerry - who I found out is chemist, said this maintenance dose will slowly release biofilm trapped in the lines and the dicholor and Ahh-Some will kill and collect it. I may see a few brown particles and maybe a scum line, just wipe it off and keep using the tub. This will allow for anything that is deeply rooted in the tub to get some use and get flushed out, but still allow us to use the tub as well. 9/16 - This morning - crystal clear water - nice normal light blue tint - nothing on the walls of the tub - no scum line - filter were even still white. I will re-test the numbers tonight and see where it goes. The only place I found to buy Ahh-Some was Amazon and it's a little pricey (29.99 2oz or 49.99 6oz) but I concur with dlleno blog / trial that it does work better than the SeaKlear. Jerry is a great guy to talk to and was very knowledgeable about the product. After digging out of this initial hole I had gotten myself into, I shouldn't have to do as many purges as I did this time. Amazon 2oz: https://www.amazon.com/Ahh-Some-Jetted-Bath-Plumbing-Cleaner/dp/B0030MYGXW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035309&sr=8-1&keywords=ahh-someAmazon 4oz: https://www.amazon.com/Ahh-Some-Jetted-Bath-Plumbing-Cleaner/dp/B0030L05GA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1474035309&sr=8-2&keywords=ahh-someUnique Solutions: http://ahh-some.com/ So I will be using the dichlor / bleach method as usual and will dump the tub at the end of October and re-fill before winter. Appreciate what help I had gotten! Thanks - Scott - Wayland, NY

Follow up - still stumped: 9/10 @ 1:00 pm: Did my first flush with Ahh-Some and got some brown gunk in the foam and along the water line. Drained, wiped refilled. A lighter shade of green this time - more of a mint green. Took a water sample and hour away to be tested and TA 200 and PH7.6 and iron .2. No other metals showed up. I'll be doing another flush of course - but the green hue has me and the spa stumped. They said I may still have something in my lines that could be causing it - but nothing showed up on the test. Have I tried a metal sesqurent? No... I don't have access to any unless Lowes or Walmart may have something. I did another Ahh-Some purge (9:00pm)'and got more brown gunk, but not like last time. Did a refill an hour ago right after and still mint green water. I'll do one more purge tomorrow to see if I get anymore brown stuff. I bought a hose attached filter to use that is supposed to filter out metals and other stuff. That'll be my next step - getting frustrated. The green just won't go away. .2 isn't high for iron. Nothing else showed up. 9/11: This morning I have a scum ring around the tub again after sitting with a clean fill and half a cup of bleach. The water is green / brown. Completely clear - but almost a light tea color but more on the green side. Another purge being that I am still getting stuff.

So I got home tonight and water is tinted a Lima bean green color. Ph was 7.5 and TA was 240. FC was 9.8 so maybe my teaspoon measurement or left over super chlorinated water kept it up there. I have not put in clean filters yet so I am running without filters - didn't know if it would contaminate them. The other set I took out is soaking in cascade and hot water (1 cup to 5 gallons). I had some dark red sedimate at the bottom of the tub - but not a lot. I decided to do the decontamination portion of lowering TA to 80 and PH to 7.2 and then shocking to 50ppm with bleach. I'll do that and then refill and chlorinate to 10 ppm and let it sit overnight. There is still a brown scum line not as bad but there. Any input would help! Thanks. ***Edit - had to stop. Storm moved in and I left the tub at TA 110 and PH 7.8 and FC 9.8. Will continue more tomorrow night *** Should I put in the filters? I didn't want to contaminate them.

Okay - long story, will try bullet points to get my point across. Looking for some direction and I always re-find my way here I have a Jacuzzi J345 tub that is 4 years old this October. I use the dichlor / bleach method. I do a clean and fill twice a year - Spring after it warms up and Fall right before it stays below 40. I always use SeaKlear Spa Flush, dump the tub, refill - add dichlor to 20ppm, dump again, refill and balance. I always use ProTeam Gentle Spa to add 50ppm of Borates at the end and re-balance again. The tub, since my last clean fill in April or May has only been used 2-3 times total. We keep up on the chemicals and check the levels every three days. Over the last two months, the water has had a musty smell that "sticks" to your skin if you dip your arm in taking a water sample. It has gone to a FC of 0 for a day or two at most maybe two or three times - but with nobody using the tub at all. The lid is not hardly opened at all except to check the water. Here was my plan that has cause me a minor stroke: i emptied the tub on Monday (9/5) and did not use any SeaKlear. My intention was to just refill and re-balance and change the filter to get rid of the smell. When I started to refill the tub by the sticking the hose into left filter hole with the grid, yellow colored water came out of the port for 10-15 seconds in to the bottom of the tub after a few seconds of the water running - not solid, but murky, like a chicken soup color yellow. The bottom of the tub water was noticeably yellow colored after it filled for a bit. I stopped the fill - dropped the pump back in and pumped it out. I then decided to fill the tub all the way up, didn't see anymore yellow, and added SeaKlear Spa Flush. Brown / Black / Dark Red scum lines around the tub immediately. Kept wiping them off with a paper towel so I didn't put it back into the water and it would come back. I ran high jets with air on. When it dried slightly around the tub it was a black / dark brown sludge - reminded me of tar. I let the tub set all night and ran it a few time here and there before bed. Went to work Tuesday and let the tub set - it cycles every 6 or 8 hours and was planning on emptying it Tuesday night. A family emergency came up and I could not empty it that night. I had my wife check it and no scum line, but the water was cloudy blue from the SeaKlear and if you reach your hand into the tub, below the water line, the was a film on the inside of the tub on everything. Not like sandpaper, but rough. It wiped off with minimal elbow grease - but was on everything below the water line. So it sat until Wednesday night where I could flush and wipe it down to remove the film. I added some more SeaKlear prior to dumping it and and some bleach - no effect on the film - so i used a microfiber towel and wiped away. Started to refill the tub and after about 5 inches of water in the bottom of the tub, my water has a noticeable green tint. I pump it out - do it again - about 3 times. Finally let it fill up all way and still has a green hue to it. Added 5 oz of 8.5% bleach to it and cycled it - nothing. PH was at 7.0 so i added PH + and took it to 7.8. Still green. Added 8 oz of SeaKlear and brown / red scum started to appear in the foam. My wife commented that it looked like someone threw up in the tub and it was just floating there. So I cycled it two times, added about 100ppm of bleach and cycled it for 30 minutes and the drained it. Refilled it and you can see little specks of red and black settled on the seats an bottom of the tub - could not get a good read on if it was still tinted green. With the outside lights on and the tubs lights on - it did appear to, so I will look tonight. I also add 10ppm dichlor to the tub and cycled it and left it for the night. My plan, if the water is clear, was to dump it one more time, do a clean fill and balance. My minor stroke is, what happened? Am I safe to use the tub? If the water isn't clear - what is going on? I'm an engineer and I keep records everytime I open the tub and what was added, etc. The FC to 0 a couple of times was due to business trips and burning through the bleach faster, My CYA was also about 60 a couple of months ago which will hurt my longevity of the bleach - but can I get a helping hand please? Any and all help is appreciated - and needed! I'm afraid I ruined my tub -

All - I got my first tub last year with a lot of help from all of you! I searched and didn't see anything around this so thought I'd post it. I just bought my replacment Clearray UV bulb last week and came across this coupon. I pain $60.47 out the door at Ace Swin and Leisure in Rochester, NY. They say you need to drain the tub or pull the two lines and put a wine cork in the lines. I'm going to wait another month and do my final change before winter. Bleach / DiChlor is a great method. Once you get the hang of it and balancing it the first time, it make tub maintenance so easy. Here are the links: http://www.jacuzzihottubs.com/clearray-print.html?s_cid=4&utm_source=promo&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=F13_clearray_bulb http://www.jacuzzihottubs.com/hot-tub-blog/2012-spa-model-owners/ Hope it helps! Scott

Being that we now know Pro Team Gentle Spa raises the pH - would it not be wise to just add the gentle spa at the beginning of the process and lowering the pH with dry acid all at one time or is it not that simple? Will It through other numbers off?

My J345 was the same way. I used SeaKlear and couldn't believe it. Water was always crystal clear even when I changed the water, but I did the one month change to rid the tub of gunk from manufacturing. I did the SeaKlear run and soak overnight, dump, refill, bleach to 20ppm, two hours of cycling, dump again, refill and balance!

I was reading on the Pleatco website that you use 1 cup of dishwasher detergent (powder) to 5 gallons of water. Let soak overnight. I let mine soak for about three days because I had to keep flipping mine over because of the height of the filter and I needed two 5-gallon buckets because I have 2 filters. What is the procedure to clean my filter cartridge? 1) Remove the cartridge from the filter housing following the manufacturer’s instructions 2) Use a garden hose with a straight flow nozzle to wash down the filter element. Work from the top down, holding the nozzle at a 45 degree angle, and wash all the pleats with emphasis between the pleats. 3) Rinse until all dirt and debris is gone 4) For all spa cartridges and elements used in swimming pools where perspiration, suntan lotions, and other oils are present, soak the element for at least one hour (overnight is most effective) in: (A) a commercial filter cleaner, or, ( one cup tri sodium phosphate (TSP) to five gallons of water © one cup dishwasher detergent to five gallons of water. 5) Rinse the cartridge again to remove oils and cleaning solution. 6) If the filter has a coating of algae, calcium carbonate (residue from calcium hypo chlorite), iron, or other minerals, soak the cartridge in a solution of one part muriatic acid to twenty parts water until all bubbling stops. 7) Rinse

Something I've noticed, and at this point it's purer speculation with a hint of data and little hypothesis. Above I was using about 22% Of bleach a night. Lately I've jumped to 50% (tonight i went from 2.4' last night to .6 tonight) with less tub usage - maybe once a week or every 10 days. Water is crystal clear, no odor, no nothing. I checked CYA on 1/1 and it dropped to 20 and about a week or so earlier I added Dichlor to bump it because it was 20-25. So what kills CYA so quick? UV - like the sun... or the ClearRay UV! When I put in the dichlor "bump" every 10 days or so it reduces to it to about 30% usage daily. My assumption, and I post about every 2 days worth of numbers (I keep a book when I test), is that the ClearRay UV is burning up the CYA. I'd be curious to know if anyone else is seeing this phenomenon...

Good point. I guess it's just a note of difference from the fresh fill to now in such a shortmperiod of time. It doesn't linger at all unless the air is on. As soon as you flip the switch it dissolves away and the water is nice and clear

Odd... I don't use MPS. I do the bleach/dichlor method. I'm not sure what I'm scooping because when its in the scoop its just water...