Kapp

Its been 4 months and its time to switch out the Nature2 cartridge. My water is doing great and don't want to have to empty the whole tub and refill, can I just put in the new cartridge? It will be time to switch water however before this 4 month cartridge is up however so when I do that in a month or so can I use this same cartridge (it would only then be a month or two old?) with the new batch of water after I get it balanced? I have been very very happy with the Narture2 cartridge and small amount of chlorine along with the Sense MPS this round of water. This combo has been working great (thanks to the advice I got in this forum). 1/4 tsp of chlorine granules and 1/4 tsp sense mps approx every other day has been easy and water has been perfect for over 4 months now. Just want to make sure I keep it going and I know its time to replace the Nature2 so wanted to check with the forum brain trust on 1) putting a new cartridge in "old" water and 2) once I change the water in a month or so can I still use the almost new Nature2 cartridge with the new water refill...thanks Kapp

Our Artesian Spa has 3 big filters in the bay the middle one I believe is for the 24 hour circ pump so if i insert the cartridge (Nature2) rather then float in the bay which one of the outside two filters should it go in or does it matter? I think you are right about the "low chlorine" along with Nature2 so will go more often like once a week and see if I can get it to show up with that much and using the test kit. Finally, when you said you "circulate" your small amount of MPS prior to soaking for 30 mins do you mean you have to have the jets on or will the 24 hour circ pump that is running suffice to spread it out and absorb? Thanks Kapp

Interestingly, I just caught your inital post after adding a similar question to the end of my screeching circ pump question...(See screeching circ pump in Portable spas) anyway, I also switched over to Nature2 and was wondering the same thing about getting the chlorine up and stable. I see from the last comment from Nitro that it might take a few weeks to stablize. Who knows what the heck is this Belgian water! I am a total newby learing all this stuff from you guys like a sponge. Doing some research It seemed to me that switching to the nature2 cartridge would reduce the amount of chlorine needed only needing to show 1-3ppm on the strip. I am not getting it to read any after adding about 1 1/2 tbsp 3 times now after the refill. I also couldn't find any directions/suggestions about how much MPS (Zodiac Cense) to use initially or anything about needing a certain dose to "activate" the cartridge. I just tested using the Nature2 strips that show MPS for the first time today and it showed dead on good. I also read about two ways to use the chlorine granules and MPS. 1) use just a 1/2tbps before each use and chlorine weekly for shock and 2) just the opposite except add a small amount of chlorine granules (1/2 tbps) AFTER each use then MPS as a weekly shock (how much I don't know either. I really like the idea of using the small amount of MPS prior to bathing as it smells so good and that is what I have tried the last two days. (Normal Bather use is 1 person daily or every other day for 30 mins in a 345 gallons spa). I am hoping this gets easier...thanks for your input and help...Kapp Wow! Brussels, Belgium! One of my favorite places ... for beer! I'd love to have a beer a A La Becasse or A La Mort Subite or many, many other places! Kapp, in the Nature2 instructions it says you must activate the cartridge with 2tbsp dichlor upon refill. I don't think MPS works the same. I imagine your initial chlorine demand was pretty high for a few days while burning off impurities in the water and cartridge. Plus I think your initial shock level was a little low. I don't bother with the MPS until I get the chlorine situation settled down. I think strips are worthless below 3ppm. Mine don't read anything, but when I use my drop test kit I might read 2ppm. I suggest buying the Taylor or TFT kit. You won't regret it. Cheers, tj 587 different kinds of beer (at last count) and all good in the Grand Platz...anyway...I am getting close 4 days after the refill, the chlorine showed sligthly on the stips (I think I will get the test kit thanks) I have been having to add spa down each day to get the PH and ALK down but it is coming down. I seem to remember having to this for awhile the first time I filled it and then the PH, ALK and Calcium levels were literaly perfect for the 4 months I was using that water. Once I get the chlorine level nailed down I will start tracking the MPS. Most suggest I throw a small amount of Zodiac Cense (say 1/2 Tblsp) before each use (a couple mins OK then jump in???) and then use 2 TBLSP of it for the weekly shock. Use the cholorine granules only once in awhile (every couple of weeks or after heavy use or party) does that sound right? I have the Artesian Quail Ridge and most all Artesians have the filter bay with 3 filters, the dealer told me to just float the Nature2 stick in the bay there instead of inserting it in one of the filters. Said it works better, gets all three filters and all the water goes through there anyway, and easier to look at to see if needs replacing. thanks Kapp of SHAPE

Kapp- First off, I sincerely apologize for being so far off and being so certain in my error! I was totally confident in my response, and am now totally humbled. As for the Nature 2 (I'm going to be very conservative in my reply, now), I have used Nature 2 in my own spa for years, and have found the instructions packed with it to work the best for me. It's good that you switched to using chlorine, because you can't use bromine with Nature 2, but I've never had to maintain a chlorine level in my spa. I just use the MPS, per the package recommended dose, once a week and prior to each use. I only use chlorine as needed (big party, lots of people, etc), or if I get lax with my MPS doses I'll add a small amount of chlorine just to get back ahead of the curve. Of course, if you are reluctant to listen to my advise at this point, I would totally understand! John Thanks John...OK let me see if I am understanding you about the Nature2 and MPS...as you can see I am trying despertately to get a good "system" and stick with it. I like the sounds of your way....OK basically then I can ignore the chlorine reading on the regular test strips and not worry about it?? (that test strip has the four...chlorine, ALK, PH, Calcium hardness) I also have the Nature2 test strips that show the MPS (which is dead on right now by the way). What has worked for you is to use the Zodiac Cense (or other oxidizer) once a week to maintain MPS and a small amount BEFORE each use. You have been using a shot of chorline only after heavy use or big party or something correct? The Nature2 strips show ALK and PH and Calcium hardness in addition to the MPS so as long as I am just using those and keeping those 4 good, that should work right? I may use the other strips after heavy use or party to double check chlorine if I used the chlorine granules. So far the water is beautiful (no milky water or smell) and is crystal clear. Let me know if you think I am hearing you correctly about the above paragraph...thanks Kapp

Interestingly, I just caught your inital post after adding a similar question to the end of my screeching circ pump question...(See screeching circ pump in Portable spas) anyway, I also switched over to Nature2 and was wondering the same thing about getting the chlorine up and stable. I see from the last comment from Nitro that it might take a few weeks to stablize. Who knows what the heck is this Belgian water! I am a total newby learing all this stuff from you guys like a sponge. Doing some research It seemed to me that switching to the nature2 cartridge would reduce the amount of chlorine needed only needing to show 1-3ppm on the strip. I am not getting it to read any after adding about 1 1/2 tbsp 3 times now after the refill. I also couldn't find any directions/suggestions about how much MPS (Zodiac Cense) to use initially or anything about needing a certain dose to "activate" the cartridge. I just tested using the Nature2 strips that show MPS for the first time today and it showed dead on good. I also read about two ways to use the chlorine granules and MPS. 1) use just a 1/2tbps before each use and chlorine weekly for shock and 2) just the opposite except add a small amount of chlorine granules (1/2 tbps) AFTER each use then MPS as a weekly shock (how much I don't know either. I really like the idea of using the small amount of MPS prior to bathing as it smells so good and that is what I have tried the last two days. (Normal Bather use is 1 person daily or every other day for 30 mins in a 345 gallons spa). I am hoping this gets easier...thanks for your input and help...Kapp

Great news on the screeching circ pump. Loosened the plastic PVC pipe connector between the pipe coming out of the heater into the 24 hour circ pump. I loosened just enough (by the way it was the only one I could actually loosen at all and with great effort) to allow some air to escape from the connection and until I had a small stream of water. Tightened it back up, prayed and crossed my fingers and the screeching was gone and the start up went as normal and began heating the water. I hope there was no damage to the circ pump while all this was going on. It has an automatic shut done and error message that came on and I would say it ran screeching for 10 mins at the most one time. The other tries were around a minute or two as I was trying to figure out what was happening and then cut power. That was Sunday night, 3 days later it is working and functioning beautifully. By the way I did switch to Nature2 (both stick and aroma therapy oxidizer.) Water is crystal clear smells great and so far so good except for getting the chorline to show on the strip. (I also decided to switch to cholorine granules with this system) I am guessing since it is a new batch of water I need to get the cholorine reserve up then should be able to maintain with a low level. While I am logged in and on the subject perhaps I could throw out this question or perhaps it would be better suited for another strand so others could find it...anyway. With the Nature2 Zodiac Cense MPS+aromatherapy oxydizer I have seen it presented two ways on how best to use it. 1) throw in 1/2 tbps before each use and then use chlorine once a week as a shock technique or 2) just the opposite, use small amount of chlorine granules 1/2 tbps After each use and then use the Cense once a week for the shock. Wondering if you or anyone else had better luck with one way or the other. Feel free to cut and paste this question under chemistry. Thanks again for your help...Kapp

Kapp- I know I responded in private concerning my belief that the issue is the pump bearing, considering what you described to me in your message, but I wanted to give you one other piece of advice. If you are near freezing conditions and you can't run the spa, put a worklight in the equipment area with at least a 100 watt bulb in it and close the service door. The bulb will give you 100 watts of heat and will keep the equipment from freezing. That will buy you some time until you find a motor repair company to take a look at the spa motor. Just make sure that the bulb is NOT laying up against anything (plumbing, shell, wires, etc) because it can quickly melt anything it is in contact with. John

Just drained and refilled our new hot tub for the first time. On start up, the pumps ran through their test and then then a very loud screeching/grinding sound started coming from what I thought at first was the heater, after taking another panel it sounds more specifically to be the 24 hour circ pump. I have an Artesian spa "Quail Ridge" and at one time when I let it go for awhile got the rhHL error message. I have tried resetting the circut breaker several times and the same thing happens after a few second. I have also tried removing filters to see if there was any flow problems with the 3 new filters installed at same time. I am in close to freezing condtions and can't get ahold of any tech help from manufacture or dealer we bought it from until Monday. Does anyone know whats happening and a possible fix? Possible water flow prob, bearings in circ pump or heater? Help. thanks Kapp

Dichlor is Chlorine Granules. It is Chlorine with a stabilizer (CYA). CYA is like a Chlorine buffer. It is needed in your tub before you start using bleach. Otherwise the bleach would be too strong. The recomendation is to use Dichlor for about the first week to build up the CYA to 20-30 ppm. Then switch to regular Clorox unscented bleach until your next refill. For every 10 ppm FC you add with Dichlor, you're adding 9 ppm CYA. So that means you need to add around 25 ppm FC before you switch to bleach. In a 350 gal tub that's ~2 oz. So after you add a total of 2 oz of Dichlor to your tub, switch to using bleach. Does that make sense? Yes, makes sense thanks...also one last thing on the milky water that may help some people with the same problem...apparently (but I won't know for sure until I refill and begin again with chlorine) another "hot tub veteran" told me he knew exactly what caused all this in the first place...bromine holding and bonding with so much oxygen that any jets turned on (and water getting older...4 months now but it started about 3 months) you get the milky water when jets on and perfectly clear a minute or two after jets off. I asked if it would happen with chlorine and he said no way, has only seen that problem in bromine tubs...so for whatever it worth.....just sealed the deal with me to switch to chlorine. thanks everyone for your help. will chime in again after the refill if there are any problems and the milky water shows up again...

Dichlor is Chlorine Granules. It is Chlorine with a stabilizer (CYA). CYA is like a Chlorine buffer. It is needed in your tub before you start using bleach. Otherwise the bleach would be too strong. The recomendation is to use Dichlor for about the first week to build up the CYA to 20-30 ppm. Then switch to regular Clorox unscented bleach until your next refill. For every 10 ppm FC you add with Dichlor, you're adding 9 ppm CYA. So that means you need to add around 25 ppm FC before you switch to bleach. In a 350 gal tub that's ~2 oz. So after you add a total of 2 oz of Dichlor to your tub, switch to using bleach. Does that make sense? Perfect...thanks for all your patience and help. Since I am so new at this I want to be sure about the other stuff. I am going to now order the test strips that show chlorine as one of the 4 things tested (not bromine) it also has ph, alk, and calcium hardness. After I do the initial dichlor for the first week, then do the switching to the bleach, I will continue to do the test strips and SPA up or down as needed with the chemicals I have been using right? (Liesure Time SPA and SPA Down). With this method of sanitation, do I still need to "shock" it once a week with the "Liesure time Renew" or it will prob not need it now that the shock actually comes from the bleach. I also read in oneof the threads that a 1/2 capful of the bleach after each use is a good idea...true? The bleach then will be added to keep the chlorine reading on the strips in the safe area correct? I hope I got this. Sorry for dragging this out but being so new at it, I am finding I am spending so much more time worrying about the chemicals and problems and not enjoying the tub. Thanks again. KAPP

It sounds like your Bromine Demand is 100%. That's not a good situation. That means either you have not been keeping up with the sanitation, or possibly you have something actively growing in your tub. I would just drain it and start over. I would also recommend starting with Chlorine instead of Bromine. If you find you don't like using Chlorine, you can always switch back to Bromine. However, if you start with Bromine you can't switch to Chlorine, without changing your water. Lastly, read THIS post about Chlorine Demand (CD). After you refill your tub, I HIGHLY recommend you measure your CD first, BEFORE using it. It will tell you if you still have a problem with your tub. Also, if you haven't already done so, read THIS post about using Chlorine to sanitize your tub. It should tell you everything you need to know to maintain your water without issues. Keep us updated. Interested after all the readings you suggested that dichlor/bleach method...I am a newby is Dichlor just chlorine powder and/or granules? Use it once at beginning of new fill then just bleach?

Thanks everyone...I will certainly drain and refill within the week, however, I would like to try your idea with the bleach and trouble shoot to see what may be causing this in case it happens with the next round or water. How do you tell if your ozonator is working or not? I did the weekly shock of 4-5 tablespoons yesterday and then checked the test strips a few hours later and of course the Bromine showed up off the charts purple as expected. Now 24 hours later, I checked it again and it is down right in the Perfect zone. I suspect if I check it tomorrow at the same time (as usual) it will show little or no bromine on the strip. So...reading the last two "super shock" suggestions. I want to be sure I put the right kind of bleach and amount for my tub. (by the way there is no baby using it, don't know how that got in the mix, I have an 8 yr old son that comes in once a month maybe) mainly 1 user 4-5 times a week 30 mins or a second mixed it there once a week maybe)...anyway by trying this before changing the water, maybe it will help eliminate a possiblity/problem if this happens again with the next water change. I suppose I should ask this (since this will be our first change as new tub owners) should we stay with the bromine tabs and chems I have been using or start over with bromine/or cholorine powder and "spa perfect" which my neighbor swears by or....? To complicate things we are Americans living in Belgium near a US base and the Belgians only use chlorine powder over here. I shipped all the chemilcals inside the tub this past fall is how I got them here. I can get most online but don't think bromine or chlorine can be shipped or purchased online so may have to go with the "Belgian way" of chlorine powder (once a week they say)...anyway, back to the bleach shock treatment. Regular bleach about how much? and then look for what? (normal bromine levels, water clearing up with jets) thanks again so much for all your input. You all are my lifeline here living in a foreign country and it is next to impossible to ask these questions in french or get any answers at all from the dealers/distributors. Kapp Well, Kapp, not looking for pity here, but just to explain. I'm in the middle of a divorce, and I just had to move out of the house today. For a few days at least, my internet access is going to be limited and sporadic at best. I don't know what your cell service is like where you are, but if you can text message, my cell number is listed on my profile on this website and you are welcome to shoot me a message directly. If nothing else. I would like to hear how things turned out for you after the effort you and I have put into this. Now. as to what to do. Your feeling is right in line with mine. It can't hurt to give it a shot of chlorine shock now before you dump the spa, just to see what kind of reaction you get. It may go far in explaining what is going on, for reference in the future. As to the dose, I would probably start out with 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup (being handicapped as an American, I can't quickly convert that into metric, but I trust you can handle that ;-) ) How the water reacts should give us some idea about what has been going on and, even if it doesn't, it's a cheap way to try to find out, and with no negative side effects. And as to what you should use from here, my personal preference is Nature 2 or something along those lines (plenty of info online, but I would be willing to fill you in some on a future post when I have a little more time). The only issue I can see is whether or not it is available over there. That shouldn't be a problem to ship (I can always do that for you if you need). But you know what they say about "When in Rome...(or in this case, Belgium!). If the system that they are primarily using over there is working, is readily available, and the retailers are familier with it and can educate you some as to the process they use, then I would strongly consider going with the "Home town default", if that makes sense to you. My personal email address is also on my profile, and emails come right through to my cell phone so, if you would like, you can message me that way. Whatever we discuss, I will try to post up here when I can, so others can see what the resolve was. Hoping for all the best for you. It has been my pleasure to help out however I could. Let me know how it goes, if you don't mind! John OK...heading outside to hit it with the bleach. Will wait a few hours test the water and hit the jets and see what we see... After dousing with 1/3 cup of bleach...14 hours later the bromine level shows "perfect" in the middle of test strip. Milky water still there as bad as ever. Of course quite a bit of foam now on the surface with the addition of the bleach. I suspect if I check the bromine level again this afternoon or tomorrow it will show "0" again (like it always does a day after the shock)...going for the drain and refill. Hopefully whatever caused it this time won't happen again. Any other ideas before I pull the plug? thanks Kapp

Thanks everyone...I will certainly drain and refill within the week, however, I would like to try your idea with the bleach and trouble shoot to see what may be causing this in case it happens with the next round or water. How do you tell if your ozonator is working or not? I did the weekly shock of 4-5 tablespoons yesterday and then checked the test strips a few hours later and of course the Bromine showed up off the charts purple as expected. Now 24 hours later, I checked it again and it is down right in the Perfect zone. I suspect if I check it tomorrow at the same time (as usual) it will show little or no bromine on the strip. So...reading the last two "super shock" suggestions. I want to be sure I put the right kind of bleach and amount for my tub. (by the way there is no baby using it, don't know how that got in the mix, I have an 8 yr old son that comes in once a month maybe) mainly 1 user 4-5 times a week 30 mins or a second mixed it there once a week maybe)...anyway by trying this before changing the water, maybe it will help eliminate a possiblity/problem if this happens again with the next water change. I suppose I should ask this (since this will be our first change as new tub owners) should we stay with the bromine tabs and chems I have been using or start over with bromine/or cholorine powder and "spa perfect" which my neighbor swears by or....? To complicate things we are Americans living in Belgium near a US base and the Belgians only use chlorine powder over here. I shipped all the chemilcals inside the tub this past fall is how I got them here. I can get most online but don't think bromine or chlorine can be shipped or purchased online so may have to go with the "Belgian way" of chlorine powder (once a week they say)...anyway, back to the bleach shock treatment. Regular bleach about how much? and then look for what? (normal bromine levels, water clearing up with jets) thanks again so much for all your input. You all are my lifeline here living in a foreign country and it is next to impossible to ask these questions in french or get any answers at all from the dealers/distributors. Kapp Well, Kapp, not looking for pity here, but just to explain. I'm in the middle of a divorce, and I just had to move out of the house today. For a few days at least, my internet access is going to be limited and sporadic at best. I don't know what your cell service is like where you are, but if you can text message, my cell number is listed on my profile on this website and you are welcome to shoot me a message directly. If nothing else. I would like to hear how things turned out for you after the effort you and I have put into this. Now. as to what to do. Your feeling is right in line with mine. It can't hurt to give it a shot of chlorine shock now before you dump the spa, just to see what kind of reaction you get. It may go far in explaining what is going on, for reference in the future. As to the dose, I would probably start out with 1/4 to 1/3 of a cup (being handicapped as an American, I can't quickly convert that into metric, but I trust you can handle that ;-) ) How the water reacts should give us some idea about what has been going on and, even if it doesn't, it's a cheap way to try to find out, and with no negative side effects. And as to what you should use from here, my personal preference is Nature 2 or something along those lines (plenty of info online, but I would be willing to fill you in some on a future post when I have a little more time). The only issue I can see is whether or not it is available over there. That shouldn't be a problem to ship (I can always do that for you if you need). But you know what they say about "When in Rome...(or in this case, Belgium!). If the system that they are primarily using over there is working, is readily available, and the retailers are familier with it and can educate you some as to the process they use, then I would strongly consider going with the "Home town default", if that makes sense to you. My personal email address is also on my profile, and emails come right through to my cell phone so, if you would like, you can message me that way. Whatever we discuss, I will try to post up here when I can, so others can see what the resolve was. Hoping for all the best for you. It has been my pleasure to help out however I could. Let me know how it goes, if you don't mind! John OK...heading outside to hit it with the bleach. Will wait a few hours test the water and hit the jets and see what we see...

Thanks everyone...I will certainly drain and refill within the week, however, I would like to try your idea with the bleach and trouble shoot to see what may be causing this in case it happens with the next round or water. How do you tell if your ozonator is working or not? I did the weekly shock of 4-5 tablespoons yesterday and then checked the test strips a few hours later and of course the Bromine showed up off the charts purple as expected. Now 24 hours later, I checked it again and it is down right in the Perfect zone. I suspect if I check it tomorrow at the same time (as usual) it will show little or no bromine on the strip. So...reading the last two "super shock" suggestions. I want to be sure I put the right kind of bleach and amount for my tub. (by the way there is no baby using it, don't know how that got in the mix, I have an 8 yr old son that comes in once a month maybe) mainly 1 user 4-5 times a week 30 mins or a second mixed it there once a week maybe)...anyway by trying this before changing the water, maybe it will help eliminate a possiblity/problem if this happens again with the next water change. I suppose I should ask this (since this will be our first change as new tub owners) should we stay with the bromine tabs and chems I have been using or start over with bromine/or cholorine powder and "spa perfect" which my neighbor swears by or....? To complicate things we are Americans living in Belgium near a US base and the Belgians only use chlorine powder over here. I shipped all the chemilcals inside the tub this past fall is how I got them here. I can get most online but don't think bromine or chlorine can be shipped or purchased online so may have to go with the "Belgian way" of chlorine powder (once a week they say)...anyway, back to the bleach shock treatment. Regular bleach about how much? and then look for what? (normal bromine levels, water clearing up with jets) thanks again so much for all your input. You all are my lifeline here living in a foreign country and it is next to impossible to ask these questions in french or get any answers at all from the dealers/distributors. Kapp

1) no not using foam reducers much at all and still getting very little if any foam on top of the water, I think I have used a few capfuls twice during the last 3 months and not at all in the last month. I have tried the clarifier several times (Leisure Time "bright and clear" 2 oz each time) hoping that would combine all those tiny bubbles to be caught in filter. 2)No it was not a problem in the beginning, the water was crystal clear with or without jets on 3)I am using Leiseure Time "Renew" "non cholorie shock oxidizer" bottle says 32% Potassium Peroxymonosulfate and 68% "other ingredients (whatever that means) Approx 1 time a week 4 tablespoons of powder (says 2 oz) (mixed in the current tub water a container prior to dumping in tub) 4) Our tub is 345 Gallons. Just did another test strip test and all levels very good maybe a tiny bit on the low end of "ideal" for al and ph but again "0" bromine showing on strip and looking at the floater with bromine tabs in it, they are definately dissolving in the water. I used two new tabs and the leftover small pieces from the week(s) before so bromine IS dissolving in the water. Still have the "Milky water" the second I turn on the jets. I did think of one other variable I should mention that i just thought of. I did try one capful of "spa fragrance" about a month ago. I am looking at the bottle I used and it only used a very small amount (1oz) once to try it out. Haven't used it since but thinking it was such a small amount once it couldn't be a factor in the equation but maybe. Thanks Kapp